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Messages - Lost_In_Translation

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1
I recently came across an article on-line by a Harvard Psychology professor, detailing a new classification of PTSD.  Her paper details "complex PTSD" and references a spectrum of issues suffered by people that do not fit the classical definition of PTSD.  Cops, Soldiers, victims of extreme violence are considered candidates for PTSD, but no definition previously identified the suffering experienced by individuals as a result of cults, involuntary incarceration, ritual abuse etc.

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Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / 24 Years Ago Today
« on: December 17, 2007, 11:15:56 AM »
I signed myself in.  "If it sucks, I'll just leave", I told myself.  

5515 Backlick Rd.  Scott P. and Ralph T. supervised the intake.  I can see the two kids who did the paperwork in my mind, but the names are gone.  One other guy came in that day.  Dale H., if you're out there, I remember watching your hands shake on first row.  I miss you, and hope you're OK.  I got sent home that night to Tim I.'s house.

24 years.  I've been taking this day off from work since as long as I can remember.  I tell myself I'm going to indulge in some personal splurge, like a day of snowboarding or something similar, and instead, I float through it in a fog.

A friend at work knows what this day is for me, an anniversary.  He asked me what I was going to do with my day off.  I said, "maybe I'll get shit-faced and sign myself back in!"

I've remained sober all this time, some of it due to "clockwork orange" conditioning, and some of it due to AA/NA, and some of it due to a belief that starting up again would only prove that all the pain and suffering of that time was indeed pure folly.  Recently, it's been due to habit.  I'm a boring, middle age guy with a wife and two kids, and despite my horrendously suburban, white bread lifestyle, I'm happy.  Not always - sometimes I drift sideways and get PTSD fatigue and whatnot, but less and less as time goes by.  

I'm going to spend the day Christmas shopping and getting packages in the mail for all the out-of-town gifts.  Maybe while I'm out, I'll drive by the Stoughton building at 53 Evans Drive for no reason at all.

Peace.

3
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Women's Self Defense Classes
« on: September 25, 2007, 04:00:28 PM »
The web site for model mugging is listed below.

http://www.modelmugging.org/

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Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / B-12, Pheromones, Serotonin
« on: September 20, 2007, 02:28:54 PM »
Woof and DP, Congrats on working through this without anyone getting shredded.  And on Anger, no less.  Woof's thread on "It" and "that" deserve their own forum.

If you want to consider boosting your mood through chemistry, I propose a few alternatives below.

Woof and I both mentioned vitamin B-12.  In nature, B-12 is found most abundantly in red meat, especially organ meat.  This vitamin plays a role in metabolism, circulation, fertility and pheromone production.  As a result, it affects group behaviors.  In predatory species, dominant or Alpha animals exude pheromones that re-inforce thier leadership among the group.  Dominant animals ingest more organs and meat as they eat before subordinate pack members, resulting in higher B-12 levels.  B complex vitamins affect skin and hair condition, thus playing a role in libido, attraction and mate selection among predator species.  Some research indicates mosquitos prefer to bite animals with lower b-12 levels in their blood.  Could vitamin B-12 influence pheromone levels that are subconciously affecting how other people and even animals behave toward us?  Can our smell be part of our "personality"?  I think so.  Eat more meat, or try a vitamin supplement.  

DP, taking a walk is free.  For the price of sneakers, a jog is almost free.  Both increase your personal energy, and will help build inner reserves of stamina and it will strengthen you in preparation for kick-boxing.  Exercise also generates serotonin, a key brain chemical for clear thinking and a sense of well being.  

Taking a walk out-doors on a sunny day can do wonders for your well being.  It engages your senses.  Sunlight and exercise play key roles in regulating the endocrine system.  The endocrine system includes all the bodies’ hormones, which in turn affects practically everything.  

Sunlight allows the body to make it’s own vitamin D, something our society adds to milk because we don’t get outside enough.  Vitamin D affects the body in a ripple effect of chemical reactions, including hormone levels, immune response, bone density, muscle mass, etc.  Plus, it feels good.

I suggest you consider the possibility that your serotonin levels are not where they should be.  Sleep, diet, exercise etc. all directly affect serotonin.  Serotonin is a building block chemical.  It affects mood, stamina, etc.  As such, it plays a role in the biochemical process attached to the “Flight, Submit, Posture, or Fightâ€

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Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Too much anger or not enough?
« on: September 17, 2007, 07:19:57 PM »
Woof has several good points.

Efforts at suppressing emotions generally do more harm than good.  I used to bottle up anger and then lose it in a seriously disproportionate way.  Those on the recieving end could care less that 20 little things had preceded my blow-up.  This is especially true of my family.  Keeping it bottled up was easier on those around me, but I started feeling like my brain was wrapped in cotton.  It was as if by muting anger, I muted every other feeling too.

For me, I did some counseling.  I had trouble getting over my inherent distrust, but my employer "suggested" it.  It was like a huge knot in my skull got untangled a little at a time.  I began to recognize that I had many options in a given situation.  In other words, "auto-pilot" conditioning didn't have to be the only option.  

Now, I do OK in low stress situations, and for some reason I do great in high stress situations (I think its' what soldiers and athletes refer to as "situational awareness" or being "in the zone")

It's the ordinary, every day, "medium stress" situations that get me.  If I am not paying attention and something catches me by surprise, or if someone goes off on me because they are having a bad day, then, the genie is out of the bottle.  More often than not, I do OK, but not always.  When I do lose it, I have learned to say I'm sorry, without telling my life story.

Woof mentioned vitamin B-12.  I have had health nut friends mention this to me.  I don't know, but for me a good nights sleep can do wonders, though I often sleep less than I need.  Proper nutrition (another rarity) also helps.  Vitamin supplements seem like a prudent option.

Years ago, I started jogging.  Once I got a bit of conditioning, I found that an easy run allowed me to think through situations and see new options.  Whether the cardio condidtioning improved oxygen to the brain or the endorphins were the cause, I can't say.  I did feel happier, more focused, and less easily upset.

I'll be the first to admit that it's a pain to exercise regularly, especially for a closet non-conformist.  But, it helps me, when I can make myself do it.

Case in point:  some time ago, my youngest son, told me, "Daddy, you used to get really mad and stay that way a long time.  Now you get a little mad for a little while.  I like you much better this way".  The truth does hurt on occasion.

Several Posters have mentioned fear of anger to the point of withdrawal.  I know of several folks from the real world who suffered the same problem.  Any anger displayed in thier direction caused them to freeze and withdraw.  Psycho bosses can take this behavior as the perfect excuse to yell more ("And Another Thing!...).The self recrimination and depression can be destructive.  Anger must be dealt with, whether it's ours or someone elses.

Years back a woman I knew had a tendency to shut down and withdraw when anyone got angry with her  She found that bad things kept coming her way.  It was like an invisible "Kick-Me" sign was taped to her back.  After she was nearly assualted in a laundromat, she took a self defense class.  The program was called "Model Mugging"  They literally practiced defending from attacks - verbal and physical.  It's intensive, and might be hard for some to deal with the "practice" when they role-play a mugger or rapist screaming and swearing in your face.  They do in fact use a form of "Operant Conditioning" but in a more appropriate way.  She explained it once to me, and it made perfect sense, but I lack the memory cells to repeat it.  When she tried to explain that what she learned is now "automatic - not in my head - in my spine", I understood.  The instructor was a former military man and retired cop who felt the need to help abused women take back thier power.  

She learned how to feign submission to gain tactical surprise, retreat when appropriate, verbally posture to make would-be attackers pause, and when/how to fight.  They practice holding thier ground, countering verbal attacks, and other self protecting behaviors to assess and defuse a potential threat.  If they decide that they need to fight, they fight full throttle.

If you are a wise-ass drunk with a big mouth and grabby hands on the subway, God help you.  

I was able to watch her graduation video.  Screaming "Dial 911!", She laid a shot on a well padded Karate instructor that lifted him 18 inches off the ground - both fists under the chin and one knee to the balls - this guy was in serious pain through 3 inches of padding.  180 pounds of attacker knocked flat by 110 pounds of femine aggression, precisely and devastatingly applied.  In perfect street fighter fashion, she circled around to the head of her downed attacker, just out of reach, but ready to kick, knee or elbow his skull to bits if he opted to get up.  Her girlfriends on the side lines cheered her on, yelling things like "Eyes! EYES!  Jamb your thumbs into his EYES!"  From time to time, I imagine new girls on front row doing this to some ass on the rap stool.

I can tell you this - the change in demeanor, body lanquage and self esteem this petite woman experienced was simply amazing.  She learned to walk "heads up" and widen her "circle of awareness" when on city streets etc.  Not only that, but her relationships at home and work improved.  She changed companies, has moved up several positions with the new company and is doing well.  She's still got the odd, "freak magnet" vibe, but in general the freaks she attracts are less threatening.  Amazingly, she says she feels calmer.  Something about knowing what she can do if she needs to, keeps her in better balance.  So, I married her.

6
Thanks for posting this - I wonder if we are capable of discussing the concept of anger without losing it?

I doubt it - basically because anger is a part of brainwashing that takes place on a more primitive, less concious level of the mind.

I have struggled with anger issues, as well.  It's too easy for me to lose my temper and use words I absolutely hate myself for afterwords.  It's like an inner "drill seargant" explodes out of me.  I fear getting angry at all, because in nearly every case, I end up with an anger hangover.  It doesn't take much for me to "confront" someone like I was conditioned to, in Straight.  It's horrifying.  I end up feeling shaky, heart racing, face flushed, etc.  For those moments, the rational, decent part of me gets switched off.  Afterwards, I feel exhausted, depressed, unable to think or function properly etc.  In other words, the outburst and the aftermath have similar traits to PTSD.


Fight or Flight, Posture or Submit.

In nature, members of the same species get along fairly well.  Competition is generally limited to certain behaviors that are ritualized, to prevent actual injury.  When two animals in competition for resources like food or a mate, approach one another, the general routine starts with posturing, then vocalizations.  If neither backs down, it can get physical, but in nature, usually the younger and weaker animal can and will retreat.  If retreat is not an option, the weaker animal will submit, ie, show it's throat, lay on the ground, etc.  Usually, the dominant animal allows the defeated one to escape - often with no injuries or only minor ones.  It's this process that allows younger, less experienced animals the opportunity to reach maturity and eventually reproduce.  So what happens to animals that keep fighting when they are outmatched?  Well, according to Darwin, they are stupid and they get killed - and therefore do not pass on thier genes to future generations.

In nature, it's generally OK for animals to "posture" ie. act like they are willing to fight, but most will choose to flee, posture, or submit to actual combat.


Brainwashing, is basically conditioning someone to do something they would otherwise think insane.

In Straight, we could Fight, Posture, or Submit.  Rarely was Flight an option.  Worse still, if we found ourselves in a fight and opted to submit, we had no faith that the attack would not continue unabated, or even escalate into a group frenzy.


I recently picked up a book by a former army officer and psychology professor.  The book addresses combat trauma and PTSD among veterans.  He details the process of turning a kid into a soldier, using a process called "operant conditioning".  In essence, boot camp and other training recieved by the recruit allow him to do automatically what had previously been unthinkable.  Run toward danger, attack and kill, but only if so ordered.

All that screaming done by drill seargants is part of the process of getting a recuit to "submit".  In essence, the goal is to restrict the Fight behavior so that it's only an option when "under orders"  Likewise, Of course, the desire to Flee must also be conditioned away.  For a recruit/soldier, most of waking time is spent in either Posture or Submit mode.  When they do "fight", they are rewarded, but only if they fight as ordered.  Recruits experience a form of bonding to thier group, and a sense of elation when thier channeled aggression is acknowledged by their peers and superiors.  

Does this sound familiar at all?

In the field, soldiers do as they were trained, and within the framework of the armed forces, this training gives soldiers a greater chance to survive, and given the proper circumstances, the likelyhood of emotional trauma post-conflict can be fairly low.

PTSD is less likely to occur among soldiers if:

They are under direct orders to act, especially if the authority figure is nearby, and feared/respected by the group.

 they feel morally certain about thier actions "I was defending my life and the lives of my friends",

The enemy is distant.  (the degree of emotional trauma is in direct correlation to how close the enemy is)  

They act as part of a group, and have that group's approval/support.

Last and perhaps most importantly, they have the respect/support of society when returning home.



Post-conflict support by society may be the most important element for resolving the emotional trauma experienced.  WWII vets were welecomed home with parades.  Viet Nam vets were insulted, avoided, and treated as pariahs.  Overall, Viet Nam vets had far more difficulty with PTSD, and I believe this is directly resultant from the ambiguous response they got upon returning home.


PTSD is more likely to occur if:

The authority figure is not respected.

The "enemy" is near

The individual is not bonded to the group

Most important again, is the reception they recieve by peers and family when they return to society.  In order of importance, they need thier peer's support most of all, thier family's second, and society's third.  Studies have shown that even mild traumatic incidents can lead to severe PTSD among soldiers that suffer a negative emotional response from even one of the three above groups.

Straight was a PTSD Factory.
Think about the reaction most kids got when the brainwashing didn't stick, and they responded with "Fight", "Posture" or "Flight"

Screamed at by peers.

Rejected by families.

Considered "criminals, juvies, and head cases" by society.


It's a wonder we're not more screwed up than we are.

So, why do we blow up at people?  Why do we attack each other viciously in these forums?  Why can't we ever hang out together in even small groups?  Because event the most violently anti-Straight among us - those who claim a degree of liberation - are still "brainwashed".  I'm not talking about rational thinking here, folks, I'm talking instinctive, subconcious, cerebellum shit.

A lot of us have aggression issues.  I believe it has to do with a form of "operant conditioning"  we were put through.  All of us feared being confronted, and most of us were initially very afraid to be the one to do the confronting.  Eventually, we were called on to do the confronting.  If we didn't, the group would go after us.  A lot of us faked it at first, but were "rewarded" by the group or staff..  Eventually, we became indoctrinated into a seriously aggressive form of "posturing".  

However, none of us had the "flight" option.  We could "fight", which usually led to extreme confrontation, if not restraint, beat-downs, etc.  

Several factors about Straight's methods amplified the negative emotional trauma many of us struggle with.  Remember, the goal of "operant conditioning" is to create behaviors and actions on an automatic, not cognitive level.  They IMBEDDED it.

Straight participants are more likely to suffer emotional trauma because:

Confrontations happened in very close proximity,

generally while in a group we feared,

in front of staff we distrusted.  

Even when we were fully indoctrinated, the anxiety and fear of the group or staff "turning on us" was always close by.  Worse still, if that happened, our families could be expected to support staff's decision.  By default society would reject us as well.  This is the perfect storm of "operant conditioning" at it's worst.

Those of us who elected to avoid doing any confronting became the targets of attack and rejection by the group.  According to psychologists, this approach leads to a condition of "learned helplessness"  Dogs beaten repeatedly in thier cages will eventually not run away, even if the cage door is left open for extened periods.  For those of us who asked ourselves "why didn't I run away?  Why didn't I fight back?"  Here's your answer - directly from B.F. Skinner.

For those of us who are still busy hating staff members, keep in mind that PTSD is prevalent among line officers.  They are instructed to act upon the dubious orders of superiors they likely don't respect, while remaining above/apart from the group, knowing those orders may result in harm to those they have been trained to lead and protect.  Even the best intentioned officers suffer the horrible realization that their best efforts cannot prevent terrible things from happening.

I would imagine most former staff members have two choices.  

Remain completely indoctrinated as a means of psychological defense.  When reality creeps in, it's a bitch.

Or,

Suffer amplified emotional trauma resulting from:

Rejection by those they thought of as authority figures

Rejection and condemnation by the group

Rejection by society, and accusations of being conspirators.



Personally, I had to acknowledge all of the above, and am still dealing with it.

7
3000 hits.  Oh, shit, my cover is BLOWN.  

I sent this to Matt privately, but I'm posting it here with a few deletes.  Hope you don't mind, Matt.  Let's take this conversation off-line.
---------------------------------------------
Well you know what, Matt? I am a dick. It's a role I play sometimes. It's not often lately that the role plays me, know what I mean? A guy that worked with me had the title "king of the shit stirrers".  I'd suspect he learned a little of it from me.

I'd like to hear from you. I'll probably cry. I'm such a pussy. I miss being friends with you. Polar opposite pain in the ass that you are.

I think your gay bashing got me worked up. Three guys in my life have been gay, and were good role models. An artist, who showed me "my own thing" has virtue. One at work who tought me to be nice to people and listen. One was a minister and got railroaded a bit by the church even though he was celibate. He heard my confessions, but they were really a several year conversation about god. Motivation means something completely different in the real world. I have to try hard to achieve balance.

I tried being perfect. You should see my sock drawer. Anal Retentive does not begin to describe it. Seven years of therapy and now I do laundry like it's just dirty clothes.  But I do the whole house full, like clockwork every sunday, without fail.

I suppose I should thank you, much as it pisses me off to do so. I had to re-look at all this. I feared being hated, rejected and despised. Not enough experience with it. You got the flip side, Matt. It WAS a witch hunt. You were a stranger here, with seriously strange ways, for new staff and new supervisors to deal with. You were threatening in hard to explain ways to some. I got tired of exlaining you. Sylvia was a bitch, but we never gave her a chance. She had a PhD, MSW, zeal, skills. We were so fucking stupid about everything. We could have actually LEARNED something, but we went us vs. them on everybody. We broke her. 6 years of college, 20 years on the job and we tore her ass up. She's DAMAGED. I wonder what her back-story was. Jim Murray? He hired real AA people and we tortured them too. He stopped trying to save many, and adopted just one. I hope it worked.

You could be such a tenacious pain in the fucking balls about EVERYTHING. #1 typical Matt tactic: "I disagree, so I'll talk or do nothing until you die of frustration, boredom or both".

Go to law school. Fight The Man. You'd drive Karl Rove to eat a bullet. How? by becoming a Republican Operative.

You'd leave dishes for 5 days in the sink and my sense of order would be destroyed. That Bumper Sticker! You have no idea, it was so much worse than the bong, incense, whatever. I hope you're laughing when you read this dickhead. You drove me insane, and you were barely trying.

I think Straight has two classes of survivors, people who blame others, and people who blame themselves. It's a generalization, I know, but almost everyone I remember falls on one side of that line or the other. Tamper with their perception of how they relate to that line, and bad shit happens. Damn, brother. I trashed you hard. I'm horrified at myself. I live on both sides of that line. But daily living compels me to pick one side and stay there. My side of the line says, "if I did it to myself, then I'm not a victim". But shit happened TO me, as well. You rubbed my nose in it. Sucks.

My neighbor is one of my best friends.  He is a folk musician, has a '66 Mustang, used to grow grass behind his garage, and he's teaching my son to play guitar. Thought you'd get a kick out of that. Karma.

You've got my contact info.

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Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / And Ralph Treciokas
« on: February 10, 2006, 07:05:00 PM »
He was older.  He always looked to me like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders in that place.  I wanted to be like him.  Didn't realize what I was wishing for.  I guess the sick little monkey in me liked the martyr image.

Ralph and Scott Prophett were the two most dominant memories of staff that I have.  

I think now, that they thought I was feeble-minded, and took pity on me, with an occasional bitch slap to keep me in line.

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Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / And Ralph Treciokas
« on: February 10, 2006, 05:49:00 PM »
I remember Ralph being a decent person.  I remember that Video tripod being set up.  My parents were divorcing, my father was losing his mind, and Ralph would pull me out of group and talk with me about it.  I think he is the main reason I wanted to be on staff.

10
Eudora's right.  We are totally off topic.

I can't be here and not think like I'm in group.

I'm reading my own posts and I sound like a psycho.  I've said at meetings that if I could meet myself at age 22, I'd beat the shit out of me.  I was trying my best in a desperately bad situation, and I'd rather believe I was a good person than realize all over again how seriously blind I can be to my own flaws.  Matt feels the same way about himself, I'd wager.  I still don't like him though.  It sucks to admit that I actually still hate him.  Hate and venom, didn't I accuse others of that?  Several times?  I chased Matt off this forum like a rabid dog, and I have an anger hangover.

Eudora,
I respect what you said, even though it felt like a punch in the face.  It took days for it to sink in.  I punched you back.  I hated you for a moment, too.  And I don't even know you.  
My nightmare about being unable to stop anything came back.  Please, forgive me for making you stand in for Leslie Murden/Suzanne Byrd.  It would mean a lot if you could.

I don't know how you remain on these forums, it brings out the worst in me.  Perversely, it made me feel better.  Cathartic, but in a sick way.  Like puking up dry.  I'm not as adjusted as I'd like to think I am, but not as crazy as some believe.

Matt, wherever you are, in 1986 you were the most full of shit moocher I ever met.  User in the extreme.  Enough said.  I'm alarmed by how much hatred and anger I felt reading the stuff you wrote.  I felt out of control.  You wrote shit I hated to hear about who I was, and I went viciously ballistic about who you were, are, and might ever be.   I reached for the moral high ground, and it wasn't mine to take.  My second private message was sent out of malice.  It's all bullshit.  Please, erase it.  I have.  Nobody else has seen it, and I'm ashamed that I wrote it.  I think you were out-of-line back then about some serious shit, so I got you fired, and I took satisfaction in it.  You left owing a shitload, and I do mean a SHITLOAD of money.  But, you didn't owe it all to me.  That much cash would still be hard to come up with today.  I can see how you would still feel fucked over.  Now I know I still feel fucked over too.  For the record, I threw your bong out the window, and it bounced off your car.  And, I took that "I brake for hallucinations" bumper sticker off the bumper.  I hated that fucking thing.  It was like a red cape to a bull.  That's two things I did to your car.  Cosmetic vs. mechanical, but I did it.  

I think you're still a dick, but that's your right.  Apparently, so am I.  There are people here that hate us both, and some that like us.  I guess it is, in that way, a bit like group.  We were really good friends once.  It went seriously wrong.  You'll never forgive me, and I'll stop trying to make you.  I'll never forgive you either.  But I understand it better now.

A couple people reached out to me this week.  I appreciate it.  I think you meant provide support, but I took it to mean you were on my side.  There's no side.  I helped a few, and hurt a few.  The rest don't give a shit about me.  I feel that way about people from my time there too.  I'm seriously unresolved about that time in my life.

Can you imagine would might happen if all of us ever got together?  I'd fucking drink. Seriously, one or two of you at a time is the most that I can handle.

I wish you all more peace than I feel right now.

11
Eudora, I understand that you're hip's friend.
Ask him.  

It's not entirely clear to me how this site works.  It's not about clearing my name.  

Before Monday, he was just someone I used to be friends with a long time ago.  We had a falling out.  On Monday, I started wondering if the guy might have almost killed me.  Could there be other suspects?  Sure.  I could have just crashed because I was a bad driver.  

"I took the transmission plug out of one of thier new cars"  

I had a new car.  Who else had a new car in that apartment?  There were five of us.  Mike (old camaro) Pete (old dodge) Kevin (old VW) Matt (old Superbee, or old Tempest)
You're right, I'm paranoid.  Still own guns in case they come to get me.

You asked why no investigation.
If I had suspected anything I suppose I could have said something.  They totalled the car, every fluid but the gas leaked out on the side of the road.  The engine was where the radio used to be.  It went from the tow truck to the junkyard.  

Hip was fired for something that I will not disclose.  Exclusion of evidence rules, client confidentiality and statute of limitations apply.  If you had asked me back then what he was fired for, I would have told you "suspicion of drug use".  Just like they told me to.

12
I was weak. I'll agree with that.

I shouldn't have trashed Hip openly.  I agree with that, too.

I'll repeat what I believe to be my only point.  Hip has posted stories trashing me and his friends about what happened that are false.  He could have said worse things about me, Mike, Pete and others  that are true, I'm sure.

I just want to know why - from him.  He has not answered that one question either by PM's or the open posts.  Nobody here can answer it for him.  Anyone else can weigh in, but really, you can't answer.
   
I wasn't in St. Pete with him.  He was incarcerated about six weeks longer than I.  I'm sure I had an easier time in treatment.  I was 19 when we met, and "wanted to be there".  He was 5 years "straight" when I met him.  He was over age by then,older than me, and still coming around.  I admired him.  I rode around in his SuperBee with Scott W. and Kevin G.  Two years later we had jobs on staff together.  It was supposed to be great.

Reading his posts kind of cut me open.
Stuff I'd forgotten.  

I don't agree with his version of the events that took place.  I remember it differently.

Hip "remembers" on his posts that he returned and removed a drain plug from someone's transmission to exact revenge.  He might have done it to Mike's '80 Camaro or Pete's '79 Cordoba.  Pete's car never ran right.  Those are his memories.  Ask Him.

What I remember is being off staff for a few weeks and driving on 128 to my new job.  My brakes went soft as I drove toward a traffic jam.  In my 14 month old Ford Escort. I Stood on the pedal and rear ended a car in the breakdown lane doing 50.  It was a four car collision.  I put my head through the windshield.  Concussion, lacerations, a strained neck, two strained wrists, and a couple of loose teeth.  No seatbelt - I was lucky, they said.  I didn't have health insurance.  I got a bill for $157.00 to cover the ambulance.  Somebody, a straight parent, I think, paid the rest.  For a few weeks after, I would sometimes cut my fingertips on the broken glass bits embedded in the scabs when I washed my hair.  

Before I read Hip's post, I thought it was just an accident.  What would you think, reading that on-line after 20+ years?

I remember lot's of other things, but they didn't happen to me, so I don't feel right about sharing them here. I'll share them with Hip, though.  

If you were there, tell me what you personally remember.  What happened in that apartment - or at 53 Evans Drive, Stoughton, MA between April and July, 1985?  

If you weren't there, have your say.  There's a big difference between "I remember" and "I think".

13
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On 2006-02-07 15:27:00, Eudora wrote:

"
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On 2006-02-07 12:38:00, Paul_Meyer wrote:


"You're right, I should have contacted him off-line.  I didn't even know it was an option, until after I hit send.  I should never hit send when I'm still angry.  He may remember it differently than I do.  He was insane.  




So were you. So was damned near everybody involved in the Program.



Eudora, I wasn't insane.  I was mean, rightous, "powerful", arrogant and rude.  
I won't permit myself that excuse.  



14
Matt, check your Private Messages.

15
You're right, I should have contacted him off-line.  I didn't even know it was an option, until after I hit send.  I should never hit send when I'm still angry.  He may remember it differently than I do.  He was insane.  Pete lost it next, then Kevin and Mike split.  I left wondering what the hell had just happened.

We were friends for years.  I guess I was hip's "ass-sniffer."  Kevin G. first, then me.  
I was there. Material witness, accessory after the fact. It should remain buried.  His mom called me after he was fired.  I lied to her.

Don't ask me, ask him.  It's not about the money.  I didn't look for him in Harvard Square.  I was looking for someone else.

Twenty years have passed, are you that same person?

As for begging forgiveness, I've done it.  In '85 from kids I lost it on.  In '86 when I quit.  From Hippie, Pete B. parents, siblings.  At concerts, on beaches, from friends, enemies, people who didn't care.  On these forums too.  Clergy, shrinks, sponsors. I can't really handle sponsors. Lingering fear of "oldcomers", I suspect.

I called in to a couple of Radio Shows when W Bush funded religious self-help groups.  A.M. radio and NPR.  Told some stories - "who watches the guards" stuff.  Big mistake.

I worked for the Democratic National Committee for a few months.  If you want to fight the system join the system, right?  Great research tools, if you want to follow the money.  Check the 503b's and 503c's.  I quit/was fired.  

I run into people that remember me.  If you sat up on that stool, people remember.  

Understanding?  I don't understand it.  I can look back and see how wrong it all was.  Why didn't I then?  Fear, probably.  Ego, definitely.  A desire to help, maybe.  I thought that my being older made me somehow wiser.  I was wrong.

I've been told "it's not your fault".  A lot of it wasn't, but some of it was.  Always will be.  

I think that I believed if I could just be a good enough person, I could make it better. That's a common belief among victims turned abusers.  It's why battered wives return.  
I'm not sure.

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