Author Topic: Fighting, bickering, maligning, here again  (Read 6987 times)

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Offline Deprogrammed

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Fighting, bickering, maligning, here again
« on: September 15, 2007, 08:06:06 PM »
Well once again I see us fighting as usual accomplishing not much.
Lord of the flies all over again, only difference is that we are all adults now.
Call me crazy but I myself have been guilty of the same above mentioned behavior here before. call it an anger problem , call it what ye will , but it is still a problem for me. I also think it is a problem for a great deal of us here.
Some people have different styles of displaying this ANGER that I am speaking of. Some are passive aggressive with it, while others blatently rage, and yet some fluctuate back and forth using both methods from what I have noticed around here.
What I have noticed about myself is that although I try hard to fight it I can fluctuate from using both methods from time to time.
Can we please have a good DISCUSSION about this common problem of ours b/c it really bothers me about myself, and about others. It bothers me about myself b/c I have to live in my own skin and deal with the fact that I hurt other people at times emotionally.
Seriously, it really bothers me. I have been fighting this side of me for years now and although I have grown with it and am way better than I used to be it just seems that that fucking place got deeper into my grains than I ever had thought.
Can anyone understand what I am speaking of here?
Thoughts, comments, fuck you's, and raging about this are definitely welcomed here about this!

One person I really admire right now is NCL, she has had a lot of crap happen to her, and although I know she is not perfect, she seems calmer than myself etc...I want to know how to do that, how to achieve that.
saddened,
-DP
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Deprogrammed

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hmmmm
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2007, 10:08:35 PM »
No comments so far.
I guess I will assume for now that I am the only one who has this problem.
Alone,
-DP
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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Fighting, bickering, maligning, here again
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2007, 10:29:55 PM »
Well it is the weekend, that has alot to do with how fast people respond.
I never realized how much anger I still had bottled inside until I started working with children.  I was in between jobs, and things were so bad at the time ( post Desert Storm recession ) that I took a job driving a van for a daycare center for pickup/dropoff/school service.  Over time, the situations I found myself in really slapped me in the face about how much I needed to deal with my repressed anger issues.

I would catch myself saying really fucked up shit to kids like one time I told this girl, "Look, your little sister is cuter than you and will always get more attention.......deal with it!"  Her face just caved like an avalanche and it was too fuckin late to take it back.  As I frantically tried to apologize, I saw another look come creeping into her eyes, the realization that she had something to hold over on me, and she did.  It took quite some time before she ever let it go.  This forum used to be about helping, and still is in a sense, but you are right, the Oldtimers have moved on and all that's left are the ones who still think they are on the playground...........but the kids on that Island would eat these assholes for breakfast in my book.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deprogrammed

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Fighting, bickering, maligning, here again
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2007, 10:33:39 PM »
Quote from: ""Cayahoga""
Well it is the weekend, that has alot to do with how fast people respond.
I never realized how much anger I still had bottled inside until I started working with children.  I was in between jobs, and things were so bad at the time ( post Desert Storm recession ) that I took a job driving a van for a daycare center for pickup/dropoff/school service.  Over time, the situations I found myself in really slapped me in the face about how much I needed to deal with my repressed anger issues.

I would catch myself saying really fucked up shit to kids like one time I told this girl, "Look, your little sister is cuter than you and will always get more attention.......deal with it!"  Her face just caved like an avalanche and it was too fuckin late to take it back.  As I frantically tried to apologize, I saw another look come creeping into her eyes, the realization that she had something to hold over on me, and she did.  It took quite some time before she ever let it go.  This forum used to be about helping, and still is in a sense, but you are right, the Oldtimers have moved on and all that's left are the ones who still think they are on the playground...........but the kids on that Island would eat these assholes for breakfast in my book.


Hey,
Thank you for replying. I appreciate it.
So what kinds of techniques have ye used that help ye out of this kind of anger mess?
-DP
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Nonconformistlaw

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Fighting, bickering, maligning, here again
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2007, 10:47:05 PM »
Hmmm...anger...fighting. I think I deal with both in ways that aren't always healthy....I seem to have the opposite problem. I avoid anger, confrontation and fighting like the plague. In part because of Straight, I developed an extreme aversion to and and all confrontation....and in part because of my personality...I dont like to fight...period. I prefer peace and tranquility.

I am sure you could imagine how that has taken shape over the years....there are various ways I have not dealt with issues b/n myself and others because I dont want to risk fighting, confrontation or anger to deal with them.....I call that unhealthy avoidance.

On the other hand I insist that others give me time to calm down cause I dont like the fighting, etc. And I dont like how I act when I am pissed. So I prefer to wait until I can act like a rational person. I also try to be diplomatic and have developed a sense of when to push an issue, when not to....some things are just too petty or trivial, imo to make a big deal about it. I also pick my battles very carefully...meaning the bigger things. Once in awhile I do lose my cool if I am pushed to far....that shows up in some of my older posts.

So straight created aversions created an extremely unhealthy avoidance pattern that is at times, much worse than it would have been...given my natural personality, tendancies, etc. And sometimes it is healthy. Its a strange mixture of both.

Oh...DP thanks for the nice words....but seriously, as you can see I am very flawed! LOL
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Lost_In_Translation

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Aggression and Depression - What happened to us?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2007, 11:46:12 PM »
Thanks for posting this - I wonder if we are capable of discussing the concept of anger without losing it?

I doubt it - basically because anger is a part of brainwashing that takes place on a more primitive, less concious level of the mind.

I have struggled with anger issues, as well.  It's too easy for me to lose my temper and use words I absolutely hate myself for afterwords.  It's like an inner "drill seargant" explodes out of me.  I fear getting angry at all, because in nearly every case, I end up with an anger hangover.  It doesn't take much for me to "confront" someone like I was conditioned to, in Straight.  It's horrifying.  I end up feeling shaky, heart racing, face flushed, etc.  For those moments, the rational, decent part of me gets switched off.  Afterwards, I feel exhausted, depressed, unable to think or function properly etc.  In other words, the outburst and the aftermath have similar traits to PTSD.


Fight or Flight, Posture or Submit.

In nature, members of the same species get along fairly well.  Competition is generally limited to certain behaviors that are ritualized, to prevent actual injury.  When two animals in competition for resources like food or a mate, approach one another, the general routine starts with posturing, then vocalizations.  If neither backs down, it can get physical, but in nature, usually the younger and weaker animal can and will retreat.  If retreat is not an option, the weaker animal will submit, ie, show it's throat, lay on the ground, etc.  Usually, the dominant animal allows the defeated one to escape - often with no injuries or only minor ones.  It's this process that allows younger, less experienced animals the opportunity to reach maturity and eventually reproduce.  So what happens to animals that keep fighting when they are outmatched?  Well, according to Darwin, they are stupid and they get killed - and therefore do not pass on thier genes to future generations.

In nature, it's generally OK for animals to "posture" ie. act like they are willing to fight, but most will choose to flee, posture, or submit to actual combat.


Brainwashing, is basically conditioning someone to do something they would otherwise think insane.

In Straight, we could Fight, Posture, or Submit.  Rarely was Flight an option.  Worse still, if we found ourselves in a fight and opted to submit, we had no faith that the attack would not continue unabated, or even escalate into a group frenzy.


I recently picked up a book by a former army officer and psychology professor.  The book addresses combat trauma and PTSD among veterans.  He details the process of turning a kid into a soldier, using a process called "operant conditioning".  In essence, boot camp and other training recieved by the recruit allow him to do automatically what had previously been unthinkable.  Run toward danger, attack and kill, but only if so ordered.

All that screaming done by drill seargants is part of the process of getting a recuit to "submit".  In essence, the goal is to restrict the Fight behavior so that it's only an option when "under orders"  Likewise, Of course, the desire to Flee must also be conditioned away.  For a recruit/soldier, most of waking time is spent in either Posture or Submit mode.  When they do "fight", they are rewarded, but only if they fight as ordered.  Recruits experience a form of bonding to thier group, and a sense of elation when thier channeled aggression is acknowledged by their peers and superiors.  

Does this sound familiar at all?

In the field, soldiers do as they were trained, and within the framework of the armed forces, this training gives soldiers a greater chance to survive, and given the proper circumstances, the likelyhood of emotional trauma post-conflict can be fairly low.

PTSD is less likely to occur among soldiers if:

They are under direct orders to act, especially if the authority figure is nearby, and feared/respected by the group.

 they feel morally certain about thier actions "I was defending my life and the lives of my friends",

The enemy is distant.  (the degree of emotional trauma is in direct correlation to how close the enemy is)  

They act as part of a group, and have that group's approval/support.

Last and perhaps most importantly, they have the respect/support of society when returning home.



Post-conflict support by society may be the most important element for resolving the emotional trauma experienced.  WWII vets were welecomed home with parades.  Viet Nam vets were insulted, avoided, and treated as pariahs.  Overall, Viet Nam vets had far more difficulty with PTSD, and I believe this is directly resultant from the ambiguous response they got upon returning home.


PTSD is more likely to occur if:

The authority figure is not respected.

The "enemy" is near

The individual is not bonded to the group

Most important again, is the reception they recieve by peers and family when they return to society.  In order of importance, they need thier peer's support most of all, thier family's second, and society's third.  Studies have shown that even mild traumatic incidents can lead to severe PTSD among soldiers that suffer a negative emotional response from even one of the three above groups.

Straight was a PTSD Factory.
Think about the reaction most kids got when the brainwashing didn't stick, and they responded with "Fight", "Posture" or "Flight"

Screamed at by peers.

Rejected by families.

Considered "criminals, juvies, and head cases" by society.


It's a wonder we're not more screwed up than we are.

So, why do we blow up at people?  Why do we attack each other viciously in these forums?  Why can't we ever hang out together in even small groups?  Because event the most violently anti-Straight among us - those who claim a degree of liberation - are still "brainwashed".  I'm not talking about rational thinking here, folks, I'm talking instinctive, subconcious, cerebellum shit.

A lot of us have aggression issues.  I believe it has to do with a form of "operant conditioning"  we were put through.  All of us feared being confronted, and most of us were initially very afraid to be the one to do the confronting.  Eventually, we were called on to do the confronting.  If we didn't, the group would go after us.  A lot of us faked it at first, but were "rewarded" by the group or staff..  Eventually, we became indoctrinated into a seriously aggressive form of "posturing".  

However, none of us had the "flight" option.  We could "fight", which usually led to extreme confrontation, if not restraint, beat-downs, etc.  

Several factors about Straight's methods amplified the negative emotional trauma many of us struggle with.  Remember, the goal of "operant conditioning" is to create behaviors and actions on an automatic, not cognitive level.  They IMBEDDED it.

Straight participants are more likely to suffer emotional trauma because:

Confrontations happened in very close proximity,

generally while in a group we feared,

in front of staff we distrusted.  

Even when we were fully indoctrinated, the anxiety and fear of the group or staff "turning on us" was always close by.  Worse still, if that happened, our families could be expected to support staff's decision.  By default society would reject us as well.  This is the perfect storm of "operant conditioning" at it's worst.

Those of us who elected to avoid doing any confronting became the targets of attack and rejection by the group.  According to psychologists, this approach leads to a condition of "learned helplessness"  Dogs beaten repeatedly in thier cages will eventually not run away, even if the cage door is left open for extened periods.  For those of us who asked ourselves "why didn't I run away?  Why didn't I fight back?"  Here's your answer - directly from B.F. Skinner.

For those of us who are still busy hating staff members, keep in mind that PTSD is prevalent among line officers.  They are instructed to act upon the dubious orders of superiors they likely don't respect, while remaining above/apart from the group, knowing those orders may result in harm to those they have been trained to lead and protect.  Even the best intentioned officers suffer the horrible realization that their best efforts cannot prevent terrible things from happening.

I would imagine most former staff members have two choices.  

Remain completely indoctrinated as a means of psychological defense.  When reality creeps in, it's a bitch.

Or,

Suffer amplified emotional trauma resulting from:

Rejection by those they thought of as authority figures

Rejection and condemnation by the group

Rejection by society, and accusations of being conspirators.



Personally, I had to acknowledge all of the above, and am still dealing with it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deprogrammed

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Re: Aggression and Depression - What happened to us?
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2007, 12:24:01 AM »
Quote from: ""Lost_In_Translation""
Thanks for posting this - I wonder if we are capable of discussing the concept of anger without losing it?

I doubt it - basically because anger is a part of brainwashing that takes place on a more primitive, less concious level of the mind.

I have struggled with anger issues, as well.  It's too easy for me to lose my temper and use words I absolutely hate myself for afterwords.  It's like an inner "drill seargant" explodes out of me.  I fear getting angry at all, because in nearly every case, I end up with an anger hangover.  It doesn't take much for me to "confront" someone like I was conditioned to, in Straight.  It's horrifying.  I end up feeling shaky, heart racing, face flushed, etc.  For those moments, the rational, decent part of me gets switched off.  Afterwards, I feel exhausted, depressed, unable to think or function properly etc.  In other words, the outburst and the aftermath have similar traits to PTSD.


Fight or Flight, Posture or Submit.

In nature, members of the same species get along fairly well.  Competition is generally limited to certain behaviors that are ritualized, to prevent actual injury.  When two animals in competition for resources like food or a mate, approach one another, the general routine starts with posturing, then vocalizations.  If neither backs down, it can get physical, but in nature, usually the younger and weaker animal can and will retreat.  If retreat is not an option, the weaker animal will submit, ie, show it's throat, lay on the ground, etc.  Usually, the dominant animal allows the defeated one to escape - often with no injuries or only minor ones.  It's this process that allows younger, less experienced animals the opportunity to reach maturity and eventually reproduce.  So what happens to animals that keep fighting when they are outmatched?  Well, according to Darwin, they are stupid and they get killed - and therefore do not pass on thier genes to future generations.

In nature, it's generally OK for animals to "posture" ie. act like they are willing to fight, but most will choose to flee, posture, or submit to actual combat.


Brainwashing, is basically conditioning someone to do something they would otherwise think insane.

In Straight, we could Fight, Posture, or Submit.  Rarely was Flight an option.  Worse still, if we found ourselves in a fight and opted to submit, we had no faith that the attack would not continue unabated, or even escalate into a group frenzy.


I recently picked up a book by a former army officer and psychology professor.  The book addresses combat trauma and PTSD among veterans.  He details the process of turning a kid into a soldier, using a process called "operant conditioning".  In essence, boot camp and other training recieved by the recruit allow him to do automatically what had previously been unthinkable.  Run toward danger, attack and kill, but only if so ordered.

All that screaming done by drill seargants is part of the process of getting a recuit to "submit".  In essence, the goal is to restrict the Fight behavior so that it's only an option when "under orders"  Likewise, Of course, the desire to Flee must also be conditioned away.  For a recruit/soldier, most of waking time is spent in either Posture or Submit mode.  When they do "fight", they are rewarded, but only if they fight as ordered.  Recruits experience a form of bonding to thier group, and a sense of elation when thier channeled aggression is acknowledged by their peers and superiors.  

Does this sound familiar at all?

In the field, soldiers do as they were trained, and within the framework of the armed forces, this training gives soldiers a greater chance to survive, and given the proper circumstances, the likelyhood of emotional trauma post-conflict can be fairly low.

PTSD is less likely to occur among soldiers if:

They are under direct orders to act, especially if the authority figure is nearby, and feared/respected by the group.

 they feel morally certain about thier actions "I was defending my life and the lives of my friends",

The enemy is distant.  (the degree of emotional trauma is in direct correlation to how close the enemy is)  

They act as part of a group, and have that group's approval/support.

Last and perhaps most importantly, they have the respect/support of society when returning home.



Post-conflict support by society may be the most important element for resolving the emotional trauma experienced.  WWII vets were welecomed home with parades.  Viet Nam vets were insulted, avoided, and treated as pariahs.  Overall, Viet Nam vets had far more difficulty with PTSD, and I believe this is directly resultant from the ambiguous response they got upon returning home.


PTSD is more likely to occur if:

The authority figure is not respected.

The "enemy" is near

The individual is not bonded to the group

Most important again, is the reception they recieve by peers and family when they return to society.  In order of importance, they need thier peer's support most of all, thier family's second, and society's third.  Studies have shown that even mild traumatic incidents can lead to severe PTSD among soldiers that suffer a negative emotional response from even one of the three above groups.

Straight was a PTSD Factory.
Think about the reaction most kids got when the brainwashing didn't stick, and they responded with "Fight", "Posture" or "Flight"

Screamed at by peers.

Rejected by families.

Considered "criminals, juvies, and head cases" by society.


It's a wonder we're not more screwed up than we are.

So, why do we blow up at people?  Why do we attack each other viciously in these forums?  Why can't we ever hang out together in even small groups?  Because event the most violently anti-Straight among us - those who claim a degree of liberation - are still "brainwashed".  I'm not talking about rational thinking here, folks, I'm talking instinctive, subconcious, cerebellum shit.

A lot of us have aggression issues.  I believe it has to do with a form of "operant conditioning"  we were put through.  All of us feared being confronted, and most of us were initially very afraid to be the one to do the confronting.  Eventually, we were called on to do the confronting.  If we didn't, the group would go after us.  A lot of us faked it at first, but were "rewarded" by the group or staff..  Eventually, we became indoctrinated into a seriously aggressive form of "posturing".  

However, none of us had the "flight" option.  We could "fight", which usually led to extreme confrontation, if not restraint, beat-downs, etc.  

Several factors about Straight's methods amplified the negative emotional trauma many of us struggle with.  Remember, the goal of "operant conditioning" is to create behaviors and actions on an automatic, not cognitive level.  They IMBEDDED it.

Straight participants are more likely to suffer emotional trauma because:

Confrontations happened in very close proximity,

generally while in a group we feared,

in front of staff we distrusted.  

Even when we were fully indoctrinated, the anxiety and fear of the group or staff "turning on us" was always close by.  Worse still, if that happened, our families could be expected to support staff's decision.  By default society would reject us as well.  This is the perfect storm of "operant conditioning" at it's worst.

Those of us who elected to avoid doing any confronting became the targets of attack and rejection by the group.  According to psychologists, this approach leads to a condition of "learned helplessness"  Dogs beaten repeatedly in thier cages will eventually not run away, even if the cage door is left open for extened periods.  For those of us who asked ourselves "why didn't I run away?  Why didn't I fight back?"  Here's your answer - directly from B.F. Skinner.

For those of us who are still busy hating staff members, keep in mind that PTSD is prevalent among line officers.  They are instructed to act upon the dubious orders of superiors they likely don't respect, while remaining above/apart from the group, knowing those orders may result in harm to those they have been trained to lead and protect.  Even the best intentioned officers suffer the horrible realization that their best efforts cannot prevent terrible things from happening.

I would imagine most former staff members have two choices.  

Remain completely indoctrinated as a means of psychological defense.  When reality creeps in, it's a bitch.

Or,

Suffer amplified emotional trauma resulting from:

Rejection by those they thought of as authority figures

Rejection and condemnation by the group

Rejection by society, and accusations of being conspirators.



Personally, I had to acknowledge all of the above, and am still dealing with it.


Wow!
Thank you....I understand everything that ye said and it makes a lot of sense to me.
I still don't know where to go with my anger, though.
This crap not only comes out here, but it comes out for me in all kinds of different places in my life. Relationships, romantic and otherwise; work(meaning being paralyzed to defend myself adequately).
It is so frustrating for me.
I need some more kind of counseling but unfortunately cannot afford it right now.
What triggered this in me recently is an assault I suffered from my boss at work. As of right now nothing is being done about it, and it is once again at the hands of some people that are "more powerful" than me(meaning more money, politically connected...etc...).
At the time. I had the phone in my hand to dial the police ok? I had the 9 and the 1 already dialed and fucking fear stopped me from dialing the other stinking 1.  I dunno quite why I didn't dial it.
I think it was probably many factors.....My boss had me trapped in a small tight space(reminded me of time out rooms).....she said to me"go ahead and call the police this is private property(intimidation of not being believed).....and now although the key witness was less than 2ft from us while all of this was going on, the key witness is claiming to the detective that she "saw and heard nothing".
Noone to help me once again.
The "interesting" part of this is that the "key witness" was in the process of quitting employment with the same employer at the time this happened to me, and now she is all of a sudden staying with the company.
I am full of anger and hurt and do not know what to do at all.
So basically now I have retreated to my shell and will not really talk to anyone outside of my immediate family and fornits (survivors).
Sad and pathetic I feel these days.
-DP
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Fighting, bickering, maligning, here again
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2007, 12:41:04 AM »
Excellent points all.  I've obviously been a good example of this lately.  As I said, things have felt pretty raw.  I'm too tired and not linguistically talented enough  to analyze it as well a lot of you, but here's my .02 fwiw.  I was furious with myself for a long time because I was one of those that just did nothing.  I couldn't.  I wasn't equipped for it.  I was very timid before I went in and petrified while I was there.  I took whatever vile shit they threw at me.  For a long time after getting out I was a pretty in your face kind of person.  Especially where my kids were concerned and overreacted more times than I'd like to think.  Edited to add for clarification:  I was not 'in your face' with my kids, but about them.  When they were little and ran up against bullies, it brought back so much that I blew and really went over the line in dealing with it.  I don't ever remember consciously thinking this, but I knew I was never going to take any shit again.  I would never let anyone treat me or talk to me the way they did in there and it made me a very angry person for a long time.  

I don't normally react that way anymore.  So much finally has been released.  Especially in the last year or two.  There's been a lot of healing.  My husband had valve replacement surgery a few years ago and it put a lot of things into perspective for me.  Having my father finally give me at least a nugget of acknowledgment that maybe, possibly, could be that it wasn't such a good idea to stick me in that place did a lot.  And he didn't give me much.  Yet. ::seg::  I'm working on him though.  I had started to feel a little better about posting here again.  I came back anonymously for a short time at first.  Chicken again but I finally signed back in.  I was getting a lot out of things that were going on in other forums mainly, but it was still fun to come over here.  As things have surfaced recently, I've been more active.  And its helped.  A lot.  Then I felt like I got blindsided.  Again.   Whether it was real or perceived, it obviously triggered something.   I had gone out of my way to avoid contact with those I knew I didn't get along with.  

That's why I end up floating in and out.  It gets to be too much.  It feels personal even though I know its really got nothing to do with me and I don't handle it well.  I'm a much happier person when I keep most people at a safe distance.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 11:12:24 AM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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Fighting, bickering, maligning, here again
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2007, 08:18:27 AM »
I don't sign in or use my username because I get my ass chewed every time I do.   Don't know if I ever will again.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nikki

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REGE
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2007, 09:47:29 AM »
Quote from: Guest
I don't sign in or use my username because I get my ass chewed every time I do.   Don't know if I ever will again.

I Choose not to sign-in as a guest because I have confidence in my-self and my TRUE friends know the deal. Those who choose to waist there time not fighting CHILD-ABUSE can simply KISS MY ASS.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: REGE
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2007, 11:15:16 AM »
Quote from: ""Nikki""
I Choose not to sign-in as a guest because I have confidence in my-self and my TRUE friends know the deal. Those who choose to waist there time not fighting CHILD-ABUSE can simply KISS MY ASS.



::huh::
Really?  How's that working out for you?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: REGE
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2007, 11:40:18 AM »
Quote from: "Nikki"
Quote from: ""Guest""
I don't sign in or use my username because I get my ass chewed every time I do.   Don't know if I ever will again.

I Choose not to sign-in as a guest because I have confidence in my-self and my TRUE friends know the deal. Those who choose to waist there time not fighting CHILD-ABUSE can simply KISS MY ASS.


uh...maybe I missed something, but what does signing in as a guest and not fighting child abuse have in common?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Fighting, bickering, maligning, here again
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2007, 01:27:46 PM »
nikki...who exactly are your freinds? i think the only people who constantly insist that they "have freinds" are ones who really dont have any. you've mentioned your "true freinds" many, many times.

and how exactly have you been fighting child abuse nikki? none of your posts make any sense and require quite a bit of deciphering. you can try to post as a guest, but your syntax, idioms, and ALL CAPITALS give you away. you may or may not be brain damaged, but you sound like a 10 year old gossiping on a.i.m.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Woof-a-Doof

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Fighting, bickering, maligning, here again
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2007, 02:02:07 PM »
Interesting post, interesting thread.

My experience with anger, now, is that I am not supposed to feel it. Somewhere along the line I set this unrealistic standard, anger was not for public display or consumption, then further on….anger was not to be experienced at all. As if, I am somehow above this vile emotion, (yeah ok).

When I was raising my Rotties, I had this revelation. The more people I met, the more love I had for my dogs (same is so with my beloved Maine Coons). It occurred to me that I was perfectly at peace with myself and I felt that way all the way up until I had to deal directly with another human being.

I had expectations of other humans, and humans are prone to disappoint expectation and anger would ensue. Rage I found to come from compromise. Very similar emotion, rage and anger, yet they come from different sources.

Not unlike many that have posted thus far, I wanted to change…I saw damage created by my own making, I saw how these emotions effected those I hold near and dear to me.

I am explosive, volatile and will fight when the bell rings and I will dance when the music plays. I tried to deny that fact about myself to myself. No wonder the internal landscaping seemed in constant turmoil….duh!

We have covered anger/rage and explosive/volatility…surface stuff…it’s stuff people see, it’s stuff that cause relationshits to fail, it’s the stuff that gets ya fired. My mind/brain perceives a threat, my mind/brain responds with attack, then my words turn vicious and my behavior is hostile. Pretty simple really…common.

What of the emotions that lay in wait…the seething, the under current that flows incessantly thru me? What of the facet of my personality that remains forever coiled…prepared to strike, despite the fact I am under no threat?

Ok, PTSD is a great explanation…but I think it incomplete! (in my experience) Because I wonder about my genetic evolution over past few millennia. I don’t think I evolved to the pinnacle of our food chain without a constant fight. Then the experience of the hunter/gatherer surely honed what fighting skills I required to dominate. Age of Reason helped me connect the dots, industrial age I suppose helped me to get shit done (?) Information Age, well the jury is still out on that….history will show what we do next…I guess what I am getting at is that “fightingâ€
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Deprogrammed

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thanks woof
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2007, 05:29:00 PM »
Quote from: "Woof-a-Doof"
Interesting post, interesting thread.

My experience with anger, now, is that I am not supposed to feel it. Somewhere along the line I set this unrealistic standard, anger was not for public display or consumption, then further on….anger was not to be experienced at all. As if, I am somehow above this vile emotion, (yeah ok).

When I was raising my Rotties, I had this revelation. The more people I met, the more love I had for my dogs (same is so with my beloved Maine Coons). It occurred to me that I was perfectly at peace with myself and I felt that way all the way up until I had to deal directly with another human being.

I had expectations of other humans, and humans are prone to disappoint expectation and anger would ensue. Rage I found to come from compromise. Very similar emotion, rage and anger, yet they come from different sources.

Not unlike many that have posted thus far, I wanted to change…I saw damage created by my own making, I saw how these emotions effected those I hold near and dear to me.

I am explosive, volatile and will fight when the bell rings and I will dance when the music plays. I tried to deny that fact about myself to myself. No wonder the internal landscaping seemed in constant turmoil….duh!

We have covered anger/rage and explosive/volatility…surface stuff…it’s stuff people see, it’s stuff that cause relationshits to fail, it’s the stuff that gets ya fired. My mind/brain perceives a threat, my mind/brain responds with attack, then my words turn vicious and my behavior is hostile. Pretty simple really…common.

What of the emotions that lay in wait…the seething, the under current that flows incessantly thru me? What of the facet of my personality that remains forever coiled…prepared to strike, despite the fact I am under no threat?

Ok, PTSD is a great explanation…but I think it incomplete! (in my experience) Because I wonder about my genetic evolution over past few millennia. I don’t think I evolved to the pinnacle of our food chain without a constant fight. Then the experience of the hunter/gatherer surely honed what fighting skills I required to dominate. Age of Reason helped me connect the dots, industrial age I suppose helped me to get shit done (?) Information Age, well the jury is still out on that….history will show what we do next…I guess what I am getting at is that “fightingâ€
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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