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An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

Oh well, sorry my life isn't so pathetic that I spend all day on a stupid fornit to know about these pathetic jokes. I'm new to this board anyways. It still doesn't change my support of programs like ABR. So you all can have your little laughs at my expensive, I really don't care. I have enough self-esteem and self-confidence that pathetic, online dorks aren't going to bring me down or shake my beliefs. Get real-get a life!!! [ This Message was edited by: DAUGHTER on 2005-10-15 12:49 ]

On 2005-10-05 15:19:00, KarenInDallas wrote:

"I SUPPORT ALL PROGRAMS!! You forniscating bastards should have all been in your programs longer. I can tell -- you see, I am a lawyer -- something none of you will ever become. You are too stupid. You are all crazy, lying bastards. That is why I love coming on this forum -- so I can tell you all what losers you are -- and don't so I am projecting. I know what type of scum you all are! You are just lucky I don't know who you are, otherwise I'd sue you all up the wazoo! Think I am kidding??? Try me! I will sue you so fast you won't know what hit you. Yep, just in case you haven't noticed -- you say one thing bad about me or a program -- and I'll sue you. Hell, if you even respond to this -- I WILL SUE YOU!

Karen





By the way anon -- it's obvious you are NOT a real program supporter as you indicate. REAL program supporters can actually SPELL. You have two words wrong in two sentences, that's of Overlord quality. No way you are a program supporter. We aren't that stupid. If you are -- get ready to be sued -- I don't want any dummy program supporters here! I'm coming to sue you!"

I totally support programs -- 100%!! I agree with you KarenInDallas!! OverLordd and other frequent posters against such programs need to learn how to pick up a dictionary or learn to utilize spell check. Their simple spelling errors make me question their intelligence and whether or not I should even listen to anything they have to say. I just have to consider the source -- especially when it comes from these extremely uneducated liberals!! And do you realize why so many people against such programs provide their information?? They are in a message board that is primarily people with the same views as them. If I was in a message board where the majority  felt the same way I do then yeah, I would have no hesitation posting all information.

Nonconformist--these men were never charged because the state decided these men weren't at fault. Had the state investigators decided the staff was responsible, then a trial most certainly would have taken place.

Overlordd-- yes, it sure has been awhile. Honestly, I thought you had given up; glad to see you're in for a fight--I missed all your typos and spelling errors (grab a dictionary, dude. You make such blatant and simple errors, it makes me question your intelligence quite honestly!!) Don't worry, mine will be equally as through here.
On the contrary, I could care less of my father's or family's reputation from our association with ABR. I am here because I believe the intentions of the program was completely honorable and positive. Only ridiculous message boards and biased articles have ruined these children's second chance. And correction--I have no murderer in my family. As I have stated before, my father quit ABR before Nic's death even occurred. Don't create yourself a slippery slope here. Just because he worked there in the past, don't assume (but then again, that's all you all ever do. That's what happens when you make comments without knowing the facts, in case you didn't know.) he wasn't in any way apart of this situtation. You don't want to be apart of my family because we enstill values and morals and that's wrong in your eyes. I'm sorry to hear this and I'm sorry your have no ethics. To imagine you are also serving our country?? This quite honestly frightens me. Maybe those Iraqis are just like these boys and maybe all they need is a little therapy and some pills, right?? You haven't heard a single thing of love from me? How about when I said I minister to under-priviledged children in efforts to share the good news of Christ with them and teach them to make positive life choices? I think you are just hearing what you want to hear, and that's fine, but this makes you biased. As you all are. And again, I am not defending my father in any way here. I believe I have stuck to defending ABR as a program here and have done a good job at leaving him out for the most part. I have left my relationship's status with father in his hands. I have tried and it is up to him now to choose whether he wishes to be apart of my life now. This message board is in no way an attempt to reconcile with him. He has no idea it even exists. But think what you want to believe (that's how it's accurately spelt by the way!) in your delusional little fantasy land you have created for yourself where no teenage boys can do wrong and where everyone can have a trial by jury.
You see you would be ashamed to share with your daughter and her class about such programs if you were a worker because you wouldn't raise your children with any morals or values, such as respect or honor or trustworthiness or confidence. OverLordd, you say you assumed that I was a son because you wouldn't want your daughter to know such programs existed. Correct?? So are you saying then it would acceptable for your son to know about such "hatred" existed?? Now who is full of double standards??
And I believe I have beaten this topic a little too much, but I will repeat myself once again just because I know you only hear what you want to hear and maybe by saying it once again you'll fnally choose to listen. Granting everyone a trial by jury is completely impractical. It costs too much and would severely back up our justice system to where a pettey crime would take months (perhaps years) to reach a judge. Practicality is extremely important in our justice system and your idea simply wouldn't work.

And concerning you asking for examples of my good works--frankly that is none of your concern. God knows my heart and He knows the level of my spirituality and He is the one that will ultimately allow me into the kingdom of Heaven. But as I have said, I minister to underpriviledged children, I attend church, I study my Bible, I pray and I tell others about Him. The only way I think ABR could have improved is if they had incorporated the good news of Jesus Christ in their program. But I am glad to say that several staff members from ABR have gone on to create their own programs which do just that. And I'm sure you're all glad to hear that these "abusive" staff members are still reaching these troubled teens. You know why? Because they care. I very much disagree with you OverLordd on your opinion that I can be denied eternity in Heaven because I support a program which tried to turn around lost individuals. I have not been blasphemous to God or Christianity at all here. I do believe that we are to love one another but we are also supposed to point out to others when they have done wrong and help guide them to the correct path. But ya know what? And the Bible says not to associate with unblievers as friends, and criminals are 99% of the time unbelievers-just like you said their actions don't defend the spirituality if they are. God definitely loves all, even sinners, but that doesn't mean we all get to experience the rewards and benefits of being born-again. The ones who choose not accept Him will face the punishment in Hell for all of eternity. And you know what, criminals will also have to face some punishment here on earth also. And I am totally glad you will not be in charge of who's entered into Heaven-you would probably allow these "poor, innocent, lost souls who didn't know better" and not force them to face any sort of punishment. I am grateful we have a God who not only grants us rewards, but also punishments. We all could learn this from him.

I am showing such hatred and lack of love, but you are calling me a "discusting peice of meat"!! Okay, first of all, it's spelt: disgusing piece of meat! And secondly, I am the cruel one, yet I do my very hardest from name calling or attacking your personal lives and religious beliefs. Yet this is all you do. OverLordd, at least you have a little arguement to throw back at me but you do it just as much as everyone else. You sit here and name call and attack people, yet I am the mean and cruel one here and I am the one to be denied into Heaven. You also say I am full of double standards, yet you all are the actual ones doing it. I can't call these teens criminals when most have done crimes throughout their entire lives and can be deemed "career criminals" but you can sit here and call another brother and sister in Christ a "disgusting piece of meat"?? Get real and open up your eyes. Maybe you should practice what you preach a little.

And these criminals weren't screwed over and I know that. They weren't just arrested off the streets and thrown in jail. They went before a judge to present their case, they were given an attorney if they could not afford one themselves and yes, some even were in court before a jury to plead their case. So go ahead and play your little violin for these boys and think they were screwed over. And in fact, I urge you to type up a bill, OverLordd, stating that all court cases regarding criminal cases or involving a crimes deserves a trial jury. Present that to your Congressman and allow him to present it to Congress (that is if you receive all the signatures required) and see how many votes it receives in each branch. I can guarentee it wouldn't pass. Impractical, simple as that. While it may seen like the fairest approach-it is simply impractical. SO please, by all means begin typing and when your bill (please name it the OverLordd bill, as it seems most appropriate) is presented in Congress, please inform me so that I may contact my Congressman and ask to be allowed to speak against such bill. Are you typing yet?? Why not, afraid of its failure and rejection?

I gain believe that we all will face a SEPARATE judgment one day from God. It is up to our federal, state, and local government to punish its citizens here on Earth while God will be in charge of handling his children on Judgment Day. If the government finds not to press charges or finds somenone innocent then all we can do is leave it up to God.

And my father didn't break the law concerning our relationship--the judge had suggested court appointed counseling for the both of us and my father declined the option. It wasn't mandatory and the judge choose not to force him to go so you know what?? That's fine with me, I know he will face the day when he will have to pay for that decision.
Oh and by the way, if manslaughter was truely considered murder then it would be called murder. There are different degrees of such a crime. If it was considered murder then why isn't it "Fourht-degree murder-for example"?? So you are trying to explain to me that when one is charged with manslaughter when a person dies in a car accident that they were involved in that they had every intent of murdering them?? I beg to differ.

And when have I shown hatred for my fellow man?? I show the need for punishment for one's actions here is all. And correction--I have never said "Nic got what he deserved". Again, you are creating yourself a slippery slope here. (If you don't know what that means, look it up-and learn to spell those common mispelled words of yours while you're at it.) I have only said it was Nic's choices that landed him at ABR along with his mother's failure to correctly raise her son.

And about deciding my spiritual condition--you might want to be careful. You are showing some traits of an unbeliever here as well. It is not your place to judge me and it is not your place to say I am not a Chrisitian-that is between me and God. Just because I believe in punishment for actions and fight for a case that I believe was not in fact murder doesn't make me an unbeliever. I am glad I am not a modern liberal as yourself and believe in medications or therapy as alternatives. Different beliefs such such petty topics doesn't mean I haven't accepted Christ. I also agree with you that everyone can be forgiven, including criminals. And I believe they can turn their lives around and make the right choices but the key thing is that they must ASK to be forgiven first. And in fact, I would definitely forgive such youth but once they are forgiven they must attempt to make the right choices and do what is right. That doesn't mean they will be perfect, but that means they are forgiven for their past mistakes and are given a second chance. I do love people, OverLordd, I just don't feel sympathy and pity for our criminal society. It was their choices and their actions. I do love people, but I also show what you may call "tough love" for those who make the wrong choices. They have lost their entitled trust and must earn that trust which they have lost back. Simple as that. But just because I believe differently as you do, doesn't mean I am damned to Hell as you may wish. Who has made you God and made you perfect to think that you are the only one entitled to be correct and whoever thinks differently than you is wrong?? [ This Message was edited by: DAUGHTER on 2005-10-09 00:53 ][ This Message was edited by: DAUGHTER on 2005-10-09 00:56 ]

Okay, first of all--you all say I am so cruel and heartless, but your words make you sound like you are the true cruel and heartless ones!! Who's the hypocrits now??

Secondly, concerning you asking me how I would handle the situtation if my own kid was in Nic's shoes.....simple-I don't have to worry about that because I would know how to handle my own kids and know how to discipline my own kids. So I am not worried about that question. And concerning your question of how the Lord would handle Nic--don't worry He most certainly will Judgement Day along with the rest of us. And if He feels any staff members were liable then He will condemn them, not us. SO let's let Him do his job and not worry about that.

And you are absolutely correct that one of the Ten Commandments is to honor thy father and mother. I am quite surprised you even know that!! Congratulations!! And I believe my relationship with my parents are none of your business, but if you are so nosey that you must butt into my personal life--well, too bad. I have said many times that this is none of your business. I HAVE honored my father and have even attempted to reconcile our relationship. The judge has even sentenced us to counseling which he has refused to consider. So our estrangement is not my fault. He was the one to make that decision, not me!!!! But do I still love him, yes-because he is my father. Do I still honor him-yes, because he is my father. I also appreciate the life lessons he taught me growing up (such as respect, honor, honesty, etc). he has also taught me things not to do in my life. But hey none of us are perfect in life. This website is not here to debate my relationship with my father or to argue our estrangment. You all need to learn how far is far enough. Stay out of my personal life and lets go back to debating this so called "abuse" scandal you all have so eloquently fabricated.

And no I don't have sympathy or pity for Nic because it was his own actions that landed him at ABR in the first place and there's nothing ABR could have done to prevent that-only him and his own mother. So why don't you blame then since they are the real cause here. Ms. Vega should be ashamed of the way she raised Nic-no child should have to be raised in the environment that he did. That is 100% Ms. Vega's fault, but Nic still made those choices. A poor upbringing is no excuse, he still knew right from wrong and if he didn't then maybe he belonged in a pych ward.

Age is naturally associated with experience. But that doesn't mean I am uneducated or not entitled to my beliefs. I have researched this topic thoroughly (and contrary to all your beliefs, I am NOT doing this to "protect my daddy"!! I have never even discussed this topic with him before! So you can just throw that idea out the window!). I have finished high school-(which is more than most of those kids from these programs ever had) and I am in the process of receiving a pre-veterinary degree before moving on to graudate school. I am very smart and dedicated and according to some-strong-willed. I find those good qualities, personally. I stand up for what I believe in and could care less if you agree with me on them or not. Age has nothing to do with what we are discussing here. Most of the boys at ABR were younger than me and I have not messed my life up like they had by my age. Does this make me a better person? No, but this does show that I make better decisions in my life and care about my future.
And to the anonymous posters who wish to debate my spiritual life, all I can say is God knows my heart. I am also dedicated to my religion and to serving my God-I have read my Bible (not all of it, but I would like to meet someone who has read every word by age 19). And the Bible says all I have to go spend forever in Heaven with Him when I die is accept His Son as my Lord and Savior and believe He died on the cross and rose again the third day. And I have accepted Jesus as my Savior and as a result, my name is written in the Lamb's book of Life. This is the only way one is allowerd into Heaven and once your name is written in that book it can never be erased. You're only "damned to Hell" by not acepting his Son, anonymous. Now if you wanna get technical about admittance into Heaven-receiving the mark of the Beast is the only way you will not be allowed into the pearly gates. No where in the Bible does it say that one that hurts a child is denied access. (You know how I know all this, anonymous?? I HAVE READ MY BIBLE!!)I have never harmed a child anyways so your comments and opinions have no effect on me-I have even worked in Christian childcare for years throughout high school. And the kids loved me-I would even let them stay at my house so they wouldn't have to spend every Friday night at the bars with their drunk and dead-beat fathers.
And the Bible is perfect-pure-without fault. So, your comment that the "The bible with all its faults and merits is no adequate substitute for experience." is totally wrong. And reguarding the latter half of that comment, while the Bible does not substitute experience, it does, however, provide excellent advice and guidance for your life. It provides wonderful life lessons through parables and stories so that we may learn from others' experiences.
And I see absolutely no connection about haveing "no experience" and the Dallas Cowboys. I personally think they are a horrible football team anyways!! I'm from the East coast so I support my home teams.

Do I valued my eternal life with my Heavenly Father over this mortal life with sinners?? In one short word--yes. Absolutely. I have dedicated my life to serving the Lord and my only purpose here on earth is to do His will and tell others about him. I am looking forward to my homecoming and living forever in Heaven. OverLordd, go ahead and try to kick me out of Heaven but the Bibil says once you have accepted the Lord He will never leave you nor foresake you. The Lord knows my heart and it is His grace that allows me to be there, not an imposter such as yourself--the decisiion is not up to you. Saying you wish another person was denied enterance into Heaven is selfish and hypocritical. That is definitly not very Christ-like--we are suppose to share His news to win others for Him and allow them to enjoy eternal life. By saying such a thing, OverLordd, you have shown your level of spirituality. If you are a born-again believer then we are suppose to be brothers and sisters. You saying you want to kick me out of Heaven seems like a demonic and sinful thing to say.
And about starting that war, good luck. Heaven is perfect, remember. Lucifer and his followers had sin in their hearts so they were cast out of Heaven. Starting that war and attempting to cast others out yourself may backfire on you and you just might end up in that very same hell yourself. So by all means, OverLordd, please reconsider this. On a technicality anyways, I believe we will not remember events that occurred on this earth once we are united in heaven so you would have no recolection of who I even am.
For those anonymous posters who bash my religious beliefs and label me as a Bible thumper--what is wrong with me have my own personal beliefs? You obviously have your own and I respect that. I only ask for that very same respect in return. (Oh what do you know it's all back to that very same statement--you have to give respect in order to receive it!!) If you so wish to spend time with juvenile delinquients over me--then so be it. I really don't care and I won't lose sleep at night over it. It doesn't hurt my feelings one bit becasue to tell you the truth, I wouldn't want to spent time with you either. The Bible says you begin to imitate the actions of the people you interact with most. This has even been proven, and I wouldn't want to begin acting or thinking like you do.

Like I have repeatedly said, TSW, respect has to be earned. You have to give it in order to receive it. I have seen both disrespectful and respectful ranchers at ABR and they receieved the exact same treatment that they gave. They were still treated as human beings and had every right as a citizen of this country. However, would I trust these kids?? Not really, they are still there afterall for committing crimes. I treated every rancher with respect, but I really was not allowed to interact with them.
Overall, you get what you give. TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WOULD WANT TO BE TREATED. When these teens showed consistent respect of authority then they resceived the same respect back. It's simple really. Also another value and moral I learned at the military bases and ABR!! ::bangin::