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Messages - mom2three

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1
Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore / Here is whats up
« on: July 22, 2005, 05:41:00 PM »
Thank you Mackey for posting such a straightforward factual statement. Your words carry alot of weight.

It is really easy for people to dismiss the affects of the emotional abuse unless they have been in that kind of situation. Most times you end up questioning everything and you just do not know how to act. Its very much like you loose a sense of self. As you eluded to, when a teenager is in a position of questioning who they are and what they stand for, this kind of "therapy" often just causes further confusion and pain.

Many times over the years I have often said I WISH they had beat the crap out of me because I would have at least known for sure what the heck happened there. They may not have laid a finger on me, but by God they left some bruises and there is no doubt in my mind this many years later that what they do is abuse.

Thank you Mackey, I hope you have a wonderful future now that this stage of your life is over. I hope in realising what happened so early on, you are able to put it behind you sooner rather than later.

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Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore / getting abused at the whitmore
« on: June 20, 2005, 04:01:00 PM »
"The trial judge found that sometime before

January 3, 2001, seven horses escaped or were released from

the south pasture. They were seized by a Ministry of Forests

employee on January 4, 2001, all in reasonable condition."


This quote is from the court transcript and maybe this is what these kids are talking about. These seven were seized by a ministry of forest employee  before the seizure at the Lodge as they were wandering and they obviously were able to find food and water outside of the pasture.

Since he was not part of the SPCA or the RCMP, he would have had to give them to the Sudweeks. He couldnt even turn them into the SPCA since they were in reasonable condition, the SPCA would have  only been able to charge them for their animals being at large since they were at the time in reasonable condition.

 From my understanding of the law, The SPCA could not seize them as the rules of the SPCA clearly state that if an animal has food, shelter and water, regardless as to how it is obtained, it cannot be seized and those horses did obtain those things albeit for themselves. There are cases where well meaning people feed and water neglected dogs who have been told that as long as "someone" is feeding the animal the SPCA cannot step in.

It is a misconception that they have the power to automatically seize any animal they believe the owner is abusing. Even when the animal is wandering around, the most they can do is fine you for the animal being at large unless their physical condition indicates neglect or abuse and even then, they cannot always do something. There are rules.

It would seem from the transcript that 29 horses were seized of the 39. This means some of them were not included in the seizure and those 7 were probably included in the 10 not seized. it does not negate the suffering of the 29 seized that some of them were in "reasonable" condition, but it does is tell you that those seized must have been in frightful condition that they felt they had grounds to seize them! It is not a testiment to the Sudweeks' good care that they were able to keep some of them it just means the SPCA did not have enough power to keep them.

By the time the ruling came down, the horses not included in the seizure were out of the country and out of the jurisdiction of the BC SPCA so they could not be seized. Had they remained in Canada, they most likely would have been as Mark now has a ban against him preventing him from ever owning another animal in BC. That is why you rode those horses. It has nothing to do with them not neglecting them.

I repeat: The fact that some of those animals were "in reasonable condition" does not negate the fact that 29 others were starving. It only means some of them were able to  get free of their barren pasture and found food but they were unfortunately returned to their abusers due to a loop hole in the law. That is NOTHING to be proud of and certainly does not prove 29 horses did not suffer terribly.

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Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore / getting abused at the whitmore
« on: June 20, 2005, 01:06:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-19 21:50:00, Anonymous wrote:

"two different organizations seized the horses, and they were given 8 of the horses back.

"


Just so you know, in BC only one agency can seize animals, the SPCA. This is fact, I had it confimred, no other agency took in those horses although there were foster families but they could not have made the decision to return the animals. There is no second agency that would have had that power. This is fact despite anything else you may have heard. FACT, LAW.

Does this mean the SPCA does not believe in the charges they laid and returned those horses? WOW. How can they on one hand request a lifetime ban on animal owning and $120,000 in vet bills and yet return these horses to the Sudweeks? I am amazed.

One of two things has happened. 1. The SPCA has cheated BC taxpayers out of 100's of thousands of dollars to prosecute and they recieved some pretty good press they didnt deserve. Seems they owe both the province and the Sudweeks an apology if they suddenly changed their minds or 2. The Sudweeks have lied.

4
Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore / TO THE PARENTS OF THE BOYS WHO RAN AWAY
« on: June 12, 2005, 04:29:00 PM »
There were SEVEN counts of which Joeys is presumably one. What about the other 6?

5
Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore / Can Tweak & Peek Sell "ACADEMIC ONLY" at Parents Weekend & S
« on: May 14, 2005, 12:54:00 PM »
I realise things are done differently in different areas, but are they not required by law to have a policies and procedures manual drawn up? Is it not part of the contract that all the kids have that therapy is part of the contract?  How do they get around changing their policies and their mission statement while they still have kids there who went in under a different contract? Is it normal for a boarding school to charge upwards of $4,000 per month for room board and education?  Sounds pretty steep to me! I would expect my child to be able to enter Harvard after attending Whitmore and we all know THAT aint gonna happen!

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Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore / Joey
« on: May 05, 2005, 08:13:00 AM »
I couldnt agree more with this posting. You have my support, my admiration and my heart. I BELIEVE YOU and hope that regardless as to where this all goes that you know that many people admire your courage and that we are not fooled by these people.

Speaking up is so important, thank you for your courage and strength.

Truth shall prevail!

7
Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore / Tweek & Peek don't like state's 'therapeutic' label
« on: May 03, 2005, 11:24:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-05-03 03:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"oh HELL joyce since when did you care so much? go take care of your abused little girl and let us take care of our abused children. "


freudian slip???

8
Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore / Joyce Harris
« on: April 30, 2005, 12:38:00 PM »
agreed

9
Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore / Joyce Harris
« on: April 30, 2005, 11:56:00 AM »
I find it ironic that you are so concerned everyone know about the "real" Joyce Harris when there are apparently EIGHT substanstiated incidents of abuse on record for Whitmore. Do you have substantiated reports from the authorities about Joyce in this regard? Or just insinuations and rumor started from a supsect source?

I am also sick to death about the photo issue. It seems to concern you people more that Joyce took some silly romantic dolled up pics of herself for her HUSBAND than it does that these photos were STOLEN from her computer!!  Surely Photos of this nature are a private matter and not for public consumption, I dont know what you and your husband (or wife) do in your private relationship nor do I care. I have read that boudoir photos are quite popular for couples, so if she did do something silly and romantic for him, she is in good company. We are talking romance here, not porn! I should think in this day and age with all the divorce we should be happy for any couple to have a healthy sexual relationship, more power to them! God does allow for that you know, between married couples, at least that is my understanding.

The thing that bothers me about these photos is not that they exist but that they were STOLEN off her computer! That should concern everyone! Whats on your computer??? How the hell did the Sudweeks come to have them also unless they a. participated or b. condoned the action? Do the means justify the ends here? The only thing I can see Joyce guilty of here was not having a proper fire wall, hardly illegal or immoral.  

As for the fire issue, if my child were there, yep I would be plenty upset the fire marshall said a night fire watch had to be maintained for the reasons stated. I would not have my child there until those issues were taken care of. In the event of a fire in an old heritage building, I think it doesnt take a fire expert to see that getting 40 children out safely would not be easy given that there is apparently only one exit off of the upper floor and a poor sprinkler system to boot.

Can you not see how serious that is? I have only 3 kids to get out of my home and I pray I never have to do it because it terrifies me that I would have to leave one behind in the event that I had to get them all out. Multiply that 10 x and I cannot see how that wouldnt concern the people living there.

Maybe think your concerns over again.

10
The Troubled Teen Industry / Sue Scheff: Did WWASP v PURE Win Mean "Freedom of Speech" to
« on: April 22, 2005, 11:19:00 AM »
The difference is you are a parent that she thinks she can bully. I was inclined to give Sue the benifit of the doubt until today, thinking maybe she was as hoodwinked as all of the parents that put their kids in Whitmore however this kind of changes that for me.

Knowing she filed a similar suit to defend the exact same rights is simply intimidation at its best. can you imagine her going to court and trying to defend her reasons as being more "worthy" than those of your family?

Total and complete BS.

11
Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore / Suds CHEAP SHOT: Lawsuit Against Student... coming up...Dare
« on: April 06, 2005, 11:07:00 PM »
oh and how to explain the court documents? I am not suprised this is what bull story they came up with, but it still makes me shake my head. Always an excuse, always a lie to cover the truth. These are people "treating" kids with behavioral issues is it? I see some behavioral issues all right!

12
The Seed Discussion Forum / The Truth
« on: March 25, 2005, 02:46:00 PM »
Greg;
The love of you and your mother is amazing and thank you for letting us see a glimpse of it. I honor your mother and her efforts! She showed true grace in a difficult time.

 I am glad you were able to give her a sense of forgiveness and peace about it, it truly must have been a horrible time in her life and yours. No matter how much she told herself she was doing what she could, as a mom myself I can imagine there was still that place in her heart where she wondered if she had done enough and I am glad you were able to give her peace about that.

Blessings to you and your family during this time of transition, may the journey be smooth and filled with love.

13
The Troubled Teen Industry / Remembering Aaron Bacon: March 31, 1994
« on: March 25, 2005, 02:25:00 PM »
Sorry that was me earlier and I guess I didnt write clearly. I do not believe there are good programs, I think the whole premise has major flaws.

However, many parents are saying "my kid was helped", "this program is better than all THOSE ones" and they sincerely believe what they are saying.  

The reality is there is always the potential in these programs for things to spiral out of control because of the philosophies behind them ie. Kids complain, kids lie, kids manipulate, they must be broken down to conform etc.

I fail to see how any normal person can look at a child who has lost 27 pounds in a few weeks and is now having nose bleeds and then come to the conclusion that he is faking it.  The philosophy behind the programs however makes that a potentail even though it makes little sense to us as outsiders.

Many people still need to see that even with recommendations from happy customers, unless policies and philosophies change within the industry, there is and always will be the potential of a child DYING in the course of so called treatment even when it is succesful for some of the participants. All of these people seem to be saying that it is mearly "sad" that Aaron Bacon and other kids like him died instead of seeing it for the utter tragedy it really is which must be such a slap in the face of those whose loved ones have died in the programs.

We instead need to see the deaths as what they are ...the failure of an industry built on pseudo psychology and a bully mentality to do what it promises.

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Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore / TO ALL PARENTS
« on: March 22, 2005, 11:05:00 PM »
Are you being paid?

15
The Troubled Teen Industry / What kind of people do this?
« on: March 21, 2005, 11:19:00 AM »
I was talking to someone else privately and we got into the discussion about what kind of person does this, or is drawn to this kind of work.

I think it is important to understand in able to help other people avoid sending their children to programs like this. They do "get" something more than money out of it or they wouldnt keep starting the programs over and over again after they keep shutting them down.

There are also people out there who cannot accept that such "nice" people are operating these programs and if we got inside their heads a bit, understanding them could lead to more effective conversations when helping someone see just what it is that has happened to them.

I am NOT talking about sympathising when I say understanding. But understanding what it is you are dealing with from all angles is imparitive. I know it helped me to get inside the heads of my boogy men, it enabled me to see there would be no closure like I was looking for, no misunderstanding happened, and that this was done to me on purpose.

It also helped me because I was looking at their point of view with my own thought processes and expecting their reaction and motives to be like my own. Consequently I was always second guessing events. Once I realised just how they ticked, I knew I wasnt the one with the problem with more certainty and healing began.

KNOW YOUR BOOGYMAN!!!

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