Author Topic: A cult?  (Read 56485 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #75 on: May 08, 2005, 10:34:00 PM »
Buzz, thanks for the energery and effort to your posts.  Your time was not wasted.  There are others besides T and Niles reading them.  I am impressed by your knowledge and faith.  thank you for sharing.  I hope you will continue to do so.  So much of this board is discouraging.  Your post are uplifting and thought provoking.  Thank you
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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #76 on: May 08, 2005, 11:30:00 PM »
And what if religion is but a placebo?

Whatever flavor, there is a common thread that runs through all.... the Golden Rule.
If everyone treated others the way they would like to be treated the world would be a far better place. It really isn't more complicated than that.

How many people have suffered and died defending the misbelief that 'their way' is the only way?
Pah-ooeeyyy!
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Offline Nihilanthic

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A cult?
« Reply #77 on: May 09, 2005, 03:57:00 AM »
Buzz... Give me a break!

"The so far unfulfilled prophecies Will be fulfilled"

It stated EXPLICITLY that the generation around at the time it was first spoken according to scripute would not all be dead before the end of the world came.

Well, they're all dead!! How the hell can that come true!? IT CANT!

Now, back to this shit. How is it a CHOICE to believe or not? Yeah. Delusion is a choice people make quite often. Look where we are! It happens all the time!

However, all this crap you say about proof, etc, bla bla bla, faith being important.. it makes no sense that a deity would expect billions of people to go by faith alone (and pick the right faith based on chance, specifically the chance that they were born to a family that would teach them the proper religion. I can say almost certainly that if you were born on the ganges river you'd be a hindu.) or on "proof" that only seems to reveal itself when someone fudges and draws connections and interpretations based on... scripture thousands of years old, translated over and over.

Why not just say "Hi Chris! This is god, not an illusion. You seen bruce almighty? I could do that if you need proof...." or just talk to everyone as a child, hrn? Thats not too much of a stretch for an omniscient, omnipotent being, is it? Its not.

The 'proving' comes out of your mouth and the mouth of other believers. There isnt any proof. Youre just speaking of metaphor, symbolism, and parable, while in the other ear I hear about how literal the bible is.

And there are two creation stories in genesis and they contract eachother. I already posted that.

How do you explain that? How do you explain a prophecy that EXPLICITLY STATES the present generation will not all be dead before armageddon comes?

You cant. You cant prove anything and you cant defend against what I bring up. You do, however, creatively dodge any inquisition I make and attack me for being at fault for not just taking what is fed to me - and resist having to analyze what you yourself believe because you want to continue to believe.

Gilcrease would say its a choice to be deluded into not following him and his seminars. Think about that. A program parent would be pulling the same tricks you do on me.

I bet you feel mad or scared right now. Well, I dont care. Its your problem. Just dont attack me and accuse me of shit when you, yourself are on exceptionally shaky ground, dodge shit, and then attack ME instead of the topic at hand!

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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #78 on: May 09, 2005, 10:53:00 AM »
//It stated EXPLICITLY that the generation around at the time it was first spoken according to scripute would not all be dead before the end of the world came. //

This is an example of a "proof" text leading you astray. Read it in its entirety. He is talking about the last days; the generation He is speaking of, is the generation that sees Israel re-established - and THEY are still living - tho they are getting old.

You won't accept this (don't believe it) And I do - So we are at a stand off.  I see no point in continuing the debate.

For my part - I am amazed that you can so ignore such obvious evidence that God is; and has proven it to us threw His Prophets.

Recent history validates the prophets as speaking for God. It isn't ancient history and so in dispute. The prophecies described exactly what was going to be - and the impossibility of these things was no hindrance to God what so ever. How can you not take note, and so take interest - and admit that since the prophets were so correct about all these things - they can be expected to be correct about all the rest?

There are many things I don't understand Niles. There are questions I can not answer. But I can look at what I do understand, And it proves to me that God is God and that Jesus is the Christ. This being the case - I am willing to trust that all the rest will be understood someday - in other words - God has proven His trustworthiness to me.

If He falls short of your demands and expectations - well, what can I do about that?

I have tried to tell you things which I suspected you were unaware of. Many people are. I grew up in a congregation that never mentioned a single prophet or the existence of prophecy. I knew nothing of it until my freshman year of high school. I found it fascinating. Still do. Its always possible others will as well - so I do like to point these things out. But if you remain unimpressed and still feel your Nihilistic philosophy is the more correct - What could I ever say that would make a difference?

 

PS - no Niles, I am not mad or afraid. Not at all.

And, if you feel attacked I can only say that was unintentional. I certanly never intended to "attack" you. Frankly - I don't see how you could think that - but if you do, I'm sorry.

Anon, thank you for the kind words.

*
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Offline Nihilanthic

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A cult?
« Reply #79 on: May 09, 2005, 04:13:00 PM »
Its my fault a omnipotent, omniscient god resorts to leaving clues and riddles in a mis-translated, often edited and ommitted from book called a bible, and made me in such a way that I cant properly interpret it?

He made me as I am but its my fault for being that way, right?

:wstupid: http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warrio ... dodger.htm

Its all a matter of which interpretation you adhere to. Attacking me for not seeing it is so much of a logical fallacy in an arguement. Same for not once fessing up to the points I made. Oh, now its a matter of that generation is the one that sees israel reborn. Sure. Care to quote the whole scripture yourself?

You know, it is pointless, you can't present anything except your own articles of faith as 'evidence' and resort to belittling me if I dont buy it!

I'm done with this thread.



An individual who should survive his physical death is beyond my comprehension, nor do I wish it; such notions are for the fears or absurd egoism of feeble souls.

--Albert Einstein

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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #80 on: May 09, 2005, 07:36:00 PM »
It has not been my intent to belittle you Niles; or attack you; or anything of the kind.
I hope it has not been your intent to attack or belittle me.

I Can quote the entire chapter - but as I have said - its a lot of work! Would it help if I did? I doubt it. Besides, it would be far more simple for you to open a Bible and read it for yourself. Do you have a Bible? If not, I'd be happy to supply you with one.  

The Bible is not mis-translated; a fact strongly supported by the dead sea scrolls. They agree word for word with the modern translation. It has never been edited; Nothing has been omitted - The Hebrew scribes would not dare to edit or omit what they believed to be the words of God.

Proof of this, is in the simple fact the histories are not sanitized. The most powerful people in the land, Kings and Queens, were exposed in many embarrassing ways by the Hebrew Prophets -  and they couldn't do a thing about it - because these men spoke for God. Well that's not true - they often tortured them and beat them and starved them and threw them in pits of filth - but they couldn't do a thing to change what they had written - b/c it was the words of God. The accuracy of their prophecies proved this to be the case. So, there has been no editing or omitting from scripture.

It is sometimes a puzzle. I have mentioned this. I too am often puzzled. But I see enough that I do understand, to trust God. I don't know why you can't (or won't) Niles - but I am not attacking you for it. On the other hand, I see no reason to sit back and let you misrepresent my Faith for your amusement.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #81 on: May 10, 2005, 05:58:00 PM »
Buzz, thanks again for all of your work.  I have taken my Bible out and read and looked stuff up because of scripture you have mentioned.  You are right about the this generation quote.  From what I have read, Niles may have hardened his heart and the sad thing is, is that he now has truth.  Before he wasn't accountable for what he had not heard.  I have been a believer for a while, but your posts have encouraged me to reopen and restudy scripture I thought I already knew!  Keep up the good work and keep encouraging.
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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #82 on: May 10, 2005, 09:20:00 PM »
Its a garden snail - right?

Looks like a garden snail to me.

 :wink:
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #83 on: May 11, 2005, 07:50:00 PM »
Buzzkill, this whole thread is presumptous as hell.  You are not seriously doing anything but prosthelizing your favorite horse, the god of the bible.

Buzzkill:

Religion:  Oh holy Jesus that will lead me and other faithtfull to Heaven and eternally punish everyone else...why? because he loves you silly. Because of him I believe in talking snakes,talking bushes, talking Donkeys, people rising from the dead and ignore all evil in the book.

Cult:  The other  non provable, non visible, supernatural guy. Lets talk about how silly he is!!!


This thread might as well be: Superman...the world's savior. Batman, all believers are evil cultists.

Buzzman, get a grip!!!!
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #84 on: May 11, 2005, 08:00:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-05-04 07:19:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Actually Jesus says the way IS narrow.  I know you guys hate Bible verses, but in Matthew 7:13-15  JESUS says, "Enter throught the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and braod is the road that leads to destruction; and many enter through it.  But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.  Watch out for false prophets.  They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves."  "


Hey, its Bible verse Time!

Gather your children round people, and lets tell the tale of a prophet of god and how he gets god to deal with children who are not respectable. Go ahead, get the kiddies, pop some popcorn, turn the lights down and lets learn! Lets even use a version even the kiddies can understand....


Elishas First Miracles
   19Now the leaders of the town of Jericho visited Elisha. "We have a problem, my lord," they told him. "This town is located in beautiful natural surroundings, as you can see. But the water is bad, and the land is unproductive."
    20Elisha said, "Bring me a new bowl with salt in it." So they brought it to him. 21Then he went out to the spring that supplied the town with water and threw the salt into it. And he said, "This is what the LORD says: I have made this water wholesome. It will no longer cause death or infertility.[c]" 22And sure enough! The water has remained wholesome ever since, just as Elisha said.

    "Elisha left Jericho and went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, a group of boys from the town began mocking and making fun of him. "Go away, you baldhead!" they chanted. "Go away, you baldhead!" 24Elisha turned around and looked at them, and he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of them. "

Wow, the kiddies said, "Get out of here baldie", and god sent two bears to rip them to shreds.

HOW DARE THEY? Thank you god for showing us how to deal with our disrespectfull kids, disembowel them!!!.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #85 on: May 11, 2005, 08:20:00 PM »
I am glad you have a Bible.  I pray you will continue to read it.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #86 on: May 11, 2005, 08:23:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-05-09 16:36:00, BuzzKill wrote:


Do you have a Bible? If not, I'd be happy to supply you with one.  



The Bible is not mis-translated; a fact strongly supported by the dead sea scrolls. They agree word for word with the modern translation. It has never been edited; Nothing has been omitted - The Hebrew scribes would not dare to edit or omit what they believed to be the words of God.



Hey Buzzkill, I HAVE A BIBLE. In fact, I got em all!  Every version.  And since you have proclaimed it the inerrent word of GOD, we are now able to explore the NATURE OF YOUR GOD according to his own word. Isn't that special.

Lets start with war...sure he is a bloody bastard and wants people to kill, but what of the women and children, what are we to do with them Buzzkill?

hmmm....

"And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

   But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. "

Hey, not bad. we get to get all bloody, then rape women and children!  What a deal.

thank you God!!!!!

Wait you say, do we really get to rape em?  Show me some support for that, otherwise I, the great Buzzkill, ain't raping nobody!!!

Okay buzzkill, you are free to unzip but you gotta hold her captive a little while first....


"When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,

   And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;

   Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;

   And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.

   And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her."

Hey Buzzkill even tho you got to wait a while, you get to shave her head and kick her out later if she is a lousy lay!!!

Damn, Im starting to think God is pretty one sided here.

Buzzkill, you may ask, but surely I can only rape CAPTURED women, not just any women on the street.

OH right you are Buzzkill! Damn your sharp. BUT, there is an exit clause! Just marry her and pay her father, and all is well!!! What fun!!!!

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her."

Oh, surely Buzzkill, you must think...but what of married women, can I rape them Too? Eh, perhaps not a good idea, my man..because then you BOTH GET THE DEATH SENTENCE.  Good call buddy!!!!!


 " If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife."



And my good man Buzzkill, what does Jeessuss think of all of this? Surely he must rebuke the old testment, surely? Right?

Right?

Care to further quote scripture?
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #87 on: May 11, 2005, 08:27:00 PM »
Ooops, that was me. I want credit for that post!!!
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #88 on: May 11, 2005, 08:58:00 PM »
Buzz, a have been given special knowledge by a all knowing messenger that you are female.  I would say relax, but THAT IS EVEN WORSE. You are now a target of God's holy WORD.

BUZZKILL, LOCK YOUR DOORS AND TRUST NO ONE, GOD SAID YOU ARE BUT MERE CHATTEL.
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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #89 on: May 11, 2005, 09:30:00 PM »
Well Greg - what took you so long to show up here?

We've been over the problems with the Livitical law  and I gave the best answer I can already. If its not good enough for you, then please accept my regrets.

I will add than Jesus did point out that the law was given in recognition of the hardness of men's hearts.

I think what made Noah different was that he believed in and trusted God. He tried to live a godly life. No doubt, like all men, he sometimes failed. I grant you there are aspects of the Noah story that seem weird; and some that, by today's standards, seem perverted. But, I don't get to judge Noah, or his sons and daughters, and neither do you. I tend to view the fact that the story is given to us, warts and all, so to speak, as evidence we can trust the testimony of the scriptures. As I've tried to explain, there is much I am puzzled by and do not understand. But there is enough I do understand to feel God is God and that I can trust Him. I'm sure you disagree.

I do not mind that you disagree. I am sorry if I have seemed pretentious. Wasn't my intent.
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