Author Topic: "PROGRAMMED" Misbehaver????  (Read 2034 times)

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Offline LIFE 82

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"PROGRAMMED" Misbehaver????
« on: October 31, 2002, 12:44:00 AM »
????
Did you ever see a misbehaver?The kind that never got off of 1st phase?
I am believe that,even though I was all the time on 1st phase,that thier doctrine was getting through.(Consider the doctrine of hurting others so you can progress).I saw many fluctuate between phases,today on 5th phase,tomorrow on 1st phase,etc,etc.So there I was just waiting for you to shed a tear in "rap".Then I would not "wait to be picked" in order to humiliate you in group,I am just saying when I want to say.I was believing the doctrine,participating,surrendering to the program BUT NEVER BEHAVE.My favorite behaviors were -pissing off parents by being smarter than them and getting kicked out of thier homes,face kicking,spitting on 7th phasers,constantly requiring restraints,etc,etc.
 I NEVER had any kind of privilege and I was daily beat up in some way (I was not a big person so it was difficult for me to fight back BUT I DID)but I still think that I was in some way "falling under the spell".I knocked some guys teeth out when he was trying to crank my arm behind the pew (thats right,wooden pews,not a proper plastic chair)and I think that was the final straw that got me out.MY QUESTION:Do you think a person that NEVER made it past 1st phase could still be under the spell,BELIEVING the doctrine and feeling that they were PART of the group?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline the other anonymous

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"PROGRAMMED" Misbehaver????
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2002, 09:41:00 AM »
Interesting question. Are you telling us what happened to you in Straight, and then asking if we think it is possible?  I think if you say that is how it was for you -- you believed, participated, surrendered, but never behaved and never made it off 1st phase -- then that is certainly one possible experience at Straight.

Are you saying that since you were violent and spoke out to humiliate people, you were participating in at least that aspect of the program?  Did you believe the whole thing about how we were druggie scum?

I do think that even someone who never made it off 1st phase could be "under a spell," since a lot of that "spell" is terror, which continues for a lot of us as forms of agoraphobia and paranoia, and in other ways too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline LIFE 82

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"PROGRAMMED" Misbehaver????
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2002, 03:15:00 PM »
No I did not think the others were "druggie scum",however I did not feel that I was like the Alcoholics and heavy drug users.I resent being compared to them but I was not convinced of this by program>I simply felt then that I did not belong there and that my parent had beed duped in to placing me there.Today I asked my mother about the details of my departing the program and she said that if our family DID have more money then I would have stayed longer (she said program never pressured her for money).Some people go with the motions to get out.It was hopeless for me to advance phases but I do believe what I was doing was "parroting" the program language.No I did not fall for the druggie scum bit but I did and still do believe that there extremely troubled 17 to 21 yr olds (alcoholics)and then the innocent little 12 yr old brothers and sisters of the alcoholics.I just knew from the first moment that the program was a sham and I could never be a part of it,but they got to my head with the doctrine.
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Offline Antigen

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"PROGRAMMED" Misbehaver????
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2002, 05:12:00 PM »
I think it's not only possible but usual for anyone put through the process to be deeply effected by it.

Think about the kinds of things we'd do to misbehave. Rockin out. Sure, that's something you might do while listening to music or even singing to yourself while walking alone. But while sitting with a group of people, say like during class at school or something, with people looking at you?

Writing on shoes. Who ever did that outside of Group? Or some of the really disturbing things, like carving on arms. Anyone ever even see anything like that outside of group? One gal I knew used to puke in a cup at lunch; it was like a for-show demonstration of balemea.

The whole time, I kept reminding myself that it was all just theatre. I knew the others weren't hardened junkies or even problem drinkers, either, for the most part. I didn't particularly like most of them, though, because they were mostly just the sort of 'popular' kids who'd always given me grief before. Not all of them, just most.

Here's a study done at Stanford back in `71 (about the same time The Seed was running at full tilt in Ft. Lauderdale) http://www.prisonexp.org/

Yeah, I think we all fell into certain roles. Even those of us who were more aware of it than others.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline enough

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"PROGRAMMED" Misbehaver????
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2002, 01:41:00 AM »
I dealt with a teenage girl for a while in the late nineties that habitually cut herself with razors, but she never did it in a group environment. I learned that this is fairly common to teenage girls with self-esteem issues.

Coercive thought reform environments can easily have long ranging effects regardless of the length of time spent in the high demand group. As each person is an individual, and each of us were involved to differing degrees, those aftere effects will accordingly manifest in a broad range of behaviors, attitudes, beliefs, opinions, habits, obsessions, compulsions, memories, dreams and perhaps most alarmingly relationship and social skills, or lack thereof.

As I have stated elsewhere, the modality, like all high demand groups, seeks to imbue a sense of doctrine above person, to eliminate our sense of personal autonomy, and to destroy our capacity to question authority in a rational and socially acceptable manner.

Hence, in my own case, I spent two decades going from job to job because of my group induced  personality traits- specifically I could not rationally express my disagreements with authority figures in the workplac, and tended to simply walk off the job.

The good side of this is that once I indentified these traits, and their source, I had the opportunity to make conscious decisions to adjust them, to learn to escape the induced traits and adopt a new set of behaviors- without coercion, or the abuse present in the high demand group.
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Offline ladyjerrico

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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2002, 06:12:00 AM »
Well, I was on 1st phase for most of my program, actually I was on 2nd phase for about a month or so during my whole 7 months there.
I must say that I am off drugs (by my own chioce, obviously, after Straight). I only smoke cigarettes and alchohol makes me feel strange, so I don't drink anymore.
The staffers thought I would die on the street, but I ended up graduating H.S. and went to night school for Computer Aided Drafting and recieved my certificate. I have a good job now, the most money I've ever made.
So I can't say that all 1st phasers were failures because that isn't nessassarily true.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
usan Minns

Offline Antigen

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"PROGRAMMED" Misbehaver????
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2002, 07:13:00 PM »
Quote
On 2002-10-31 22:41:00, enough wrote:
The good side of this is that once I indentified these traits, and their source, I had the opportunity to make conscious decisions to adjust them, to learn to escape the induced traits and adopt a new set of behaviors- without coercion, or the abuse present in the high demand group.

Me too. I lost the first job I ever liked because I'd forgotten to clock in one day and, instead of calmly asking the manager to go over my time card with me, I stormed in and started shouting at her, in front of all the other employees, for trying to rip me off. Boy, did I feel stooopid, and unemployed.. and stoooooopid besides!


But it wasn't all that easy to deal with just because I knew of the problem; that I was an ass. Next time, it was that I knew I had a raise coming. I did the right thing, asked for it. Didn't get it. Asked for an explanation and got a promise. Still no raise on the next check, so I asked why. When I was told that it wasn't in the budget, I pointed out that the management trip to the Bahamas for a convention was probably not as important as the new coat my daughter needed.


They finally offered me like a nickle an hour or something stupid and I quit.


In retrospect, I think things might have worked out better for me if I hadn't been hyperventilating and shifting from foot to foot while experiencing intense vertigo every time I tried to discuss the issue with my employer.


It was a little better the next time, next job. Practice makes perfect. Maybe I should have sought help from a group like Assholes Anonymous?



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[ This Message was edited by: Antigen on 2002-11-01 16:18 ]

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline enough

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"PROGRAMMED" Misbehaver????
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2002, 07:56:00 PM »
If you can offer me a referal to Assholes Anonymous I would love to have that linked from my site-

I can so so so understand that feeling of shifting from foot to foot and hyperventilating etc....and no it is not easy even once I have identified the sources of my induced behaviors. It ain't easy no matter what, that much I have found out for sure.
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Offline Froderik

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"PROGRAMMED" Misbehaver????
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2002, 12:21:00 AM »
"I knocked some guys teeth out when he was trying to crank my arm behind the pew (thats right,wooden pews,not a proper plastic chair)and I think that was the final straw that got me out"

Which Str8 was it that had PEWS? About 3 nights ago I dreamt of being in again, but at a different branch. There were pews instead of plastic chairs...The weird thing is, I didn't know of this until I read your post tonight... - Alex

[ This Message was edited by: AlexL on 2002-11-15 21:21 ]
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Offline Tampa survivor

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"PROGRAMMED" Misbehaver????
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2002, 02:05:00 PM »
12-1980 Gandy Bl, St Pete.  We had the blue chairs, and heard LOTS about how LUCKY we were compared to the (cue ominous music) THE OLD BUILDING.  The Pews were talked about.  I know a few of them made it to the new building for staffers to sit in at the back of group.
Bill
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Offline LIFE 82

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"PROGRAMMED" Misbehaver????
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2002, 06:49:00 PM »
Church Pews at LIFE Program Sarasota.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »