Cross Creek Manor - Report of abuse

[Anonymous]

Make no mistake about it. There will always be some form of Cross Creek.

No, there won't. The WWASP cult will be destroyed eventually, and children will no longer be subjected to this shit.

Abusive? Yes I too will fight for that to be eliminated.

But you don't. You continue to lie and excuse their behavior and the darker aspects of the program.

POW? No it's not. Military Schools are worse.

No, they aren't. Military school do not feature a "treatment" program that been developed out of a known cult and tactics used in North Korean POW camps.

Why aren't you focused on what harms everyone. War? Do you even acknowledge that there are kids dying so you can have your precious shoes, makeup, tv, and freedom?

Do you realize you're talking to a person who lives in a country that's been at war since its establishment, and who has seen combat? Don't drop your self-righteous "I've seen poverty! I was so poor and miserable! I am so much more aware than all of you to the troubles of the world!" shit on me.

Facilities? They helped me. I stick by that. Did I ever say "Holy Program". No I didn't.

Oh, no, you didn't. But you do put them on a pedestal. You do justify and excuse everything they do. You do refuse to critical examine what was done to you. To you, the program is indeed holy.

Again you keep trying to make me out to be like an evangelist. Not so. I see both sides. Nice try. Keep trying to make me out to be all about the program. It's amusing. Again you are just as bad as the ones you say are the real harmful people. Tsk Tsk.  ops: "

No, I'm not. I don't kidnap children in the middle of the night. The program does. I don't strip search children against their will, the program does. I don't subject children to days and weeks and months of solitary confinement, the program does. I don't beat and restrain them, the program does. I don't degare and humilitate them in seminars, the program does. I don't stop them from communicating with the outside world, the program does.

[Anonymous]

:: My child was out of control and when we took her to a local hospital she said we were abusing her. Not true. My child is currently at CCM and she is getting better. Stories of abuse abound with some children. Some true some not. My child is currently happy and thriving at CCM. I have not been stopped from seeing her at any time. Only a parent can make the decision for their child. No residential treatment center is good for every child. To say all are good or all are bad is unjust to the facility. Many children are being helped in different facilities. Each to there own. Anyone considering this needs to do there homework and follow there gut. We did the local hospital thing and it never improved our child or our family situation. CCM is working for our family and child.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-30 09:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

" :: My child was out of control and when we took her to a local hospital she said we were abusing her. Not true. My child is currently at CCM and she is getting better. Stories of abuse abound with some children. Some true some not. My child is currently happy and thriving at CCM. I have not been stopped from seeing her at any time. Only a parent can make the decision for their child. No residential treatment center is good for every child. To say all are good or all are bad is unjust to the facility. Many children are being helped in different facilities. Each to there own. Anyone considering this needs to do there homework and follow there gut. We did the local hospital thing and it never improved our child or our family situation. CCM is working for our family and child."

Of course, some kids lie. But when you have so many complaints and so many children telling so many detailed, similar stories, you can bet that something's going on.

Your daughter have lied in the past, that's true. But she is not lying about CCM. CCM is abusive. If she wasn't abused in the past, she definitely is now.

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-30 01:45:00, Perrigaud wrote:

Antigen,
Seminars? You haven't talked to everyone. Just the ones who are traumatized. Not everyone ended up like this. Abusive? No.

You've been through the seminars. So has Amanda. Are you saying that these other people's descriptions are out of line w/ the seminars that you participated in? That they're lying about it? Or that they're giving a pretty accurate description, but you just don't think that what they're describing is abusive behavior?

Strip search? Maybe I was just one of the few that wasn't strip searched. I wasn't. Abusive? No not if those girls are coming in with knives and other such things. Not if they came in with drugs.

Then why don't they do strip searches at prisons and juvenile detention facilities? They don't, you know. They just do a pat down, check the pockets and such. They don't make you squat and pull your lips open. Only adult prisons for convicted felons and some psyche hospitals practice routine strip searches. It is illegal and imoral to strip someone unless and until they've been found guilty of behavior that our society deems worthy of that extreme level of scrutiny. Being a teenager at odds w/ their parents doesn't come close to that.

Teens are no angels. You all seem to forget that. Teens are manipulative. I used to manipulate people like you all the time. I would play the poor battered teen. I made it seem as if I was just being a teen. I used to get a sick kick out of watching you people yell at my parents or teachers all because you felt I deserved my right to be me. In reality you were enabling me.

Perri, I do respect you still. Please don't take this the wrong way. I disagree that you haven't got an original thought in your head. However, at this moment, I do feel sorry for you and I do think you've come to accept some horrible self concept notions that are simply not true.

Teens are manipulative, dishonest and untrustworthy to exactly the extent that all other human beings are, except for small children who haven't yet become adept at it. Right now, the people who brought us WWASP are infamous for manipulating and playing the victim. When people speak out to the media, sue them, call for LE investigations, etc. (which is to say constantly) Robert Browning Lichfield, Ken Kay, Randall Hinton and all the rest start whining like little babies about it, never applying their own dogma to themselves. It's all a vast left wing conspiracy of "the adversary". They never take responsibility for their actions. They always blame the victim and manipulate their followers into "trusting the process".

Perri, by making excuses for their long-standing pattern of bad behavior, you are enabling them.

No I didn't say that the kid getting tackled was completely justified. Don't put words in my mouth.

I only asked if you viewed that as abusive. Personally, I do. Especially since the adults in charge would have known that the phone was dead anyway, so why tackle the kid? All they had to do to prevent him from calling home was to wait till he figured out that the phone was dead. There's a reason why they tackled him instead of taking the non-violent approach. Do you have any idea what that reason is?

Lady I didn't get fucked. However thanks for proving how dumb adults can be. Thank you for showing how naive you all are. No really, glad to know that the teens of America will keep getting away with things because after all they are just teens. They are fragile and need to be given the space to grow.

Yeah, they do. And, believe it or not, most of them do come up just fine w/o any drastic intervention. Yeah, you get away w/ some things in that you don't get caught by any authorities each and every time. But there's no getting away from the natural consequences of your own behavior. If you lie and cheat all the time, your friends won't trust you. If you betray the trust given you then you lose it.

One of the dirty tricks that the Troubled Parent industry plays on parents and kids alike is just exactly the same as what fortune tellers do. They give you a list of vague questions; "Have you ever [fill in the blank]" The questions are phrased so as to catch up damned near everyone. But, at the end of the quiz, they tell you that so many "yes" answers indicates serious trouble of some sort. It's a lie. It's a confidence game. It's not new or revolutionary. Scheisters and psychos have been working this same con down through the ages.

But, fortunately, human beings come equiped w/ the ability to learn from their mistakes and improve their methods and habits over time. We tend to forget just how irresponsible or thoughtless we were when we were young and to compare kids ta'day to an impossibly high ideal. But the fact is that for thousands of years teenagers have been growing up just fine w/o the "help" of the Troubled Parent industry.

Deserved? Hell yeah I deserved to grow up. I wasn't treated as a wretched horrible person.

Then you didn't go through the seminars? You weren't held incommunicado w/o your shoes and consequenced for things like looking out a window, making normal conversation w/ others, disagreeing w/ staff? You somehow were treated entirely differently than all the other kids at CCM? Or you just learned to suck it up and blame yourself?

Any priest or shaman must be presumed guilty until proven innocent.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-30 06:55:00, Perrigaud wrote:

Some of you are as bad as those "brainwashing" program people. You do push for me to believe and think as you do. How funny. You are what you hate.  Who's really pure out of you? Only a few.

When my own dear daughter was getting pimp slapped around by her boyfriend, I (along w/ all of her extended family and friends) tried hard for years to get her to understand what was happeneing and to quit excusing his behavior.

Yeah, I do want you to reconsider the Program methods and whether or not they're abusive. Partly for your own sake, because life SUX if you have to carry around the extra baggage of believing what you say you believe about yourself having been one of those horrible, terrifying "teenager" beasts. But my interest has more to do w/ trying to get some general understanding of this scam so that others won't fall for it.

I do not believe for one minute, Perri, that you ever were one of those horrible beasts. For the most part, I don't even believe such a beast exists. And I do know a lot of teenagers. Even was one once upon a time, long ago. Did you know that, back then, we actually made pets of rocks? It's true!

Necessity is the excuse for every infringement of human freedom.  It is the argument of the tyrant and the creed of the slave.  
-- William Pitt, 1763

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-30 07:23:00, Anonymous wrote:

 but I also have no doubt that many have been helped.

Of course you don't because you refuse to entertain any doubt or discussion. "Trust the process" you say and do. In this regard, you're no different from the whack jobs out in the streets burning copies of Harry Potter but who have never read it because they're afraid of how it might influence them.

To be an atheist requires strength of mind and goodness of heart found in not one of a thousand.
--Samuel Taylor Coleridge, English poet, critic, journalist, philosopher

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-30 08:44:00, Anonymous wrote:

POW? No it's not. Military Schools are worse.  

No, they aren't. Military school do not feature a "treatment" program that been developed out of a known cult and tactics used in North Korean POW camps.

Actually, they do. Navy Seals and Army Green Barets undergo training that simulates a POW experience. There are significant differences, though. They know going in that they're going to be severely abused and they do so voluntarily. And the purpose of the training is to teach the soldiers how to resist brainwashing and torture, not to get them to succumb to it.

If life were fair, Dan Quayle would be making a living asking 'Do you want fries with that?'
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/6302294274/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>John Cleese

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-30 12:37:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2005-04-30 08:44:00, Anonymous wrote:

POW? No it's not. Military Schools are worse.  

No, they aren't. Military school do not feature a "treatment" program that been developed out of a known cult and tactics used in North Korean POW camps.

Actually, they do. Navy Seals and Army Green Barets undergo training that simulates a POW experience. There are significant differences, though. They know going in that they're going to be severely abused and they do so voluntarily. And the purpose of the training is to teach the soldiers how to resist brainwashing and torture, not to get them to succumb to it.

If life were fair, Dan Quayle would be making a living asking 'Do you want fries with that?'
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/6302294274/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>John Cleese

"

I know that. But Perriguad was talking about military schools, not the actual military. I find it very hard to believe that there are military schools out there that offer SERE training...

[Anonymous]

What's amusing is how a successful graduate is being told her experience wasn't the way it was at all. Being told that our experience of the seminars was brainwashing in a negative sense.  Being told that the kids at Cross Creek are abused even when there are other kids there that don't see it, staff, therapists, parents visiting, even the people delivering food don't see it.  Being told there's some secret hiding place that kids are beaten, raped, starved and abused.   Is that why they are at capacity with a waiting list now? Are the parents standing in line to put their child in harms way?  Are they so uninformed that they don't read the propaganda and sensationalism and are blindly leading their child to a life of abuse?  

The only abuse I see here is your abuse of people's tendency to be in fear of the unknown and planting seeds of doubt.  Doubting themselves as parents, doubting there is help. The only thing kids that were pulled early learned is how to manipulate beyond what they knew they could get away with before.  Now they've got mom and dad right where they want them.  Get real.  Do you really think a kid that was pulled because they say they were beaten or starved will actually admit it was a lie? They'll write letters, go on TV. go to any length to make it real to anyone who is gullible enough to believe them. And, unfortunately, there are too many that do.  Are they getting some sense of power from this?   They might even begin to believe it themselves. All the while there was never any physical evidence or verbal evidence by anyone that witnessed it.  No won lawsuits.

What you call abusive treatment is no more than kids having to follow rules to get more privileges. It's starting at square one, back to the beginning before the kids starting making the rules.  

What you call brainwashing is no more than a little re-wiring in a positive sense.  Don't even compare this with Hitler, etc.,  They used whatever they did for their own gain. Cross Creek and the seminars, the group sessions, the levels, the positive peer pressure, the support groups, the after care coaching and workshops are all meant to create a place of self-empowerment.  I've never met a robot as some have said.  Of course, I've heard a lot of robots on this form saying the same crap over and over again about programs being abusive.  

My take is that all programs are there for the kids in one way or the other.   The WWASPS programs are there for the parents and the kids and the extended family and even in the workplace.  

SO c'mon - tell me how brainwashed and programmed I am.  That's the best you can do when someone says something positive about Cross Creek or any of the WWASPS programs. Spout your crap about their programs being closed "because" of abuse, or that Lichfield contributes to politicians and that's why he stays in business. Tell the kids that did some deep soul/inner work they were really abused and what they did doesn't count.  

The people of podunk Missouri seemed to believe the stories.   One thing I found extremely weird is that these newspapers only reported the negatives and more than likely they only received negative (mostly anonymous) letters.  Did they really care if anyone ever revived the campus?  If they did they would have really done their homework and would have found quite the opposite to be true.  They didn't care.  Now that you've convinced the Boonvilleites that WWASPS is abusive you seem to have stepped up your "balls" a notch and are now saying you're going to go into towns where the programs are and put up billboards, write more letters and contribute to Rep Millers campaign even more.

Was Hinton really going to be a part of WWASPS?  Isn't the Dundee Ranch open under a new name in Costa Rica and not part of WWASPS?  That's a Lichfield, and I guarantee it is not part of WWASPS.  Even the newspaper reports in podunk Missouri got sucked into it. So would I want a couple of people that didn't have WWASPS oversight in my town?  Can't answer that.

I tend to think that the BILL sponsored by Miller won't really impact WWASPS anyway because they are not abusive.  It will impact those that are operating like the Buffalo SOldiers  or other rogue programs that are flying under the radar right now.

Thank you Perrigaud and Brown.  You are my true heros.  Look at what you are for yourselves now.  

I guess if I'm addicted to something, being addicted to the truth isn't so bad.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-30 14:45:00, Anonymous wrote:

"What's amusing is how a successful graduate is being told her experience wasn't the way it was at all. Being told that our experience of the seminars was brainwashing in a negative sense.  Being told that the kids at Cross Creek are abused even when there are other kids there that don't see it, staff, therapists, parents visiting, even the people delivering food don't see it.  Being told there's some secret hiding place that kids are beaten, raped, starved and abused.   Is that why they are at capacity with a waiting list now? Are the parents standing in line to put their child in harms way?  Are they so uninformed that they don't read the propaganda and sensationalism and are blindly leading their child to a life of abuse?  



The only abuse I see here is your abuse of people's tendency to be in fear of the unknown and planting seeds of doubt.  Doubting themselves as parents, doubting there is help. The only thing kids that were pulled early learned is how to manipulate beyond what they knew they could get away with before.  Now they've got mom and dad right where they want them.  Get real.  Do you really think a kid that was pulled because they say they were beaten or starved will actually admit it was a lie? They'll write letters, go on TV. go to any length to make it real to anyone who is gullible enough to believe them. And, unfortunately, there are too many that do.  Are they getting some sense of power from this?   They might even begin to believe it themselves. All the while there was never any physical evidence or verbal evidence by anyone that witnessed it.  No won lawsuits.



What you call abusive treatment is no more than kids having to follow rules to get more privileges. It's starting at square one, back to the beginning before the kids starting making the rules.  



What you call brainwashing is no more than a little re-wiring in a positive sense.  Don't even compare this with Hitler, etc.,  They used whatever they did for their own gain. Cross Creek and the seminars, the group sessions, the levels, the positive peer pressure, the support groups, the after care coaching and workshops are all meant to create a place of self-empowerment.  I've never met a robot as some have said.  Of course, I've heard a lot of robots on this form saying the same crap over and over again about programs being abusive.  



My take is that all programs are there for the kids in one way or the other.   The WWASPS programs are there for the parents and the kids and the extended family and even in the workplace.  



SO c'mon - tell me how brainwashed and programmed I am.  That's the best you can do when someone says something positive about Cross Creek or any of the WWASPS programs. Spout your crap about their programs being closed "because" of abuse, or that Lichfield contributes to politicians and that's why he stays in business. Tell the kids that did some deep soul/inner work they were really abused and what they did doesn't count.  



The people of podunk Missouri seemed to believe the stories.   One thing I found extremely weird is that these newspapers only reported the negatives and more than likely they only received negative (mostly anonymous) letters.  Did they really care if anyone ever revived the campus?  If they did they would have really done their homework and would have found quite the opposite to be true.  They didn't care.  Now that you've convinced the Boonvilleites that WWASPS is abusive you seem to have stepped up your "balls" a notch and are now saying you're going to go into towns where the programs are and put up billboards, write more letters and contribute to Rep Millers campaign even more.



Was Hinton really going to be a part of WWASPS?  Isn't the Dundee Ranch open under a new name in Costa Rica and not part of WWASPS?  That's a Lichfield, and I guarantee it is not part of WWASPS.  Even the newspaper reports in podunk Missouri got sucked into it. So would I want a couple of people that didn't have WWASPS oversight in my town?  Can't answer that.



I tend to think that the BILL sponsored by Miller won't really impact WWASPS anyway because they are not abusive.  It will impact those that are operating like the Buffalo SOldiers  or other rogue programs that are flying under the radar right now.



Thank you Perrigaud and Brown.  You are my true heros.  Look at what you are for yourselves now.  



I guess if I'm addicted to something, being addicted to the truth isn't so bad.  





"

What a load of bullshit. Nothing but program catchpharases and bullshit. Nothing but accusations that the victims are lying.

Do you realize how sick you sound? Do you realize you are defending a destructive cult?

WWASP's gulags are the most abusive programs is existence today. And they will be shut down. You can count on it.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-30 14:45:00, Anonymous wrote:

"What's amusing is how a successful graduate is being told her experience wasn't the way it was at all. Being told that our experience of the seminars was brainwashing in a negative sense.  Being told that the kids at Cross Creek are abused even when there are other kids there that don't see it, staff, therapists, parents visiting, even the people delivering food don't see it.  Being told there's some secret hiding place that kids are beaten, raped, starved and abused.   Is that why they are at capacity with a waiting list now? Are the parents standing in line to put their child in harms way?  Are they so uninformed that they don't read the propaganda and sensationalism and are blindly leading their child to a life of abuse?  



The only abuse I see here is your abuse of people's tendency to be in fear of the unknown and planting seeds of doubt.  Doubting themselves as parents, doubting there is help. The only thing kids that were pulled early learned is how to manipulate beyond what they knew they could get away with before.  Now they've got mom and dad right where they want them.  Get real.  Do you really think a kid that was pulled because they say they were beaten or starved will actually admit it was a lie? They'll write letters, go on TV. go to any length to make it real to anyone who is gullible enough to believe them. And, unfortunately, there are too many that do.  Are they getting some sense of power from this?   They might even begin to believe it themselves. All the while there was never any physical evidence or verbal evidence by anyone that witnessed it.  No won lawsuits.



What you call abusive treatment is no more than kids having to follow rules to get more privileges. It's starting at square one, back to the beginning before the kids starting making the rules.  



What you call brainwashing is no more than a little re-wiring in a positive sense.  Don't even compare this with Hitler, etc.,  They used whatever they did for their own gain. Cross Creek and the seminars, the group sessions, the levels, the positive peer pressure, the support groups, the after care coaching and workshops are all meant to create a place of self-empowerment.  I've never met a robot as some have said.  Of course, I've heard a lot of robots on this form saying the same crap over and over again about programs being abusive.  



My take is that all programs are there for the kids in one way or the other.   The WWASPS programs are there for the parents and the kids and the extended family and even in the workplace.  



SO c'mon - tell me how brainwashed and programmed I am.  That's the best you can do when someone says something positive about Cross Creek or any of the WWASPS programs. Spout your crap about their programs being closed "because" of abuse, or that Lichfield contributes to politicians and that's why he stays in business. Tell the kids that did some deep soul/inner work they were really abused and what they did doesn't count.  



The people of podunk Missouri seemed to believe the stories.   One thing I found extremely weird is that these newspapers only reported the negatives and more than likely they only received negative (mostly anonymous) letters.  Did they really care if anyone ever revived the campus?  If they did they would have really done their homework and would have found quite the opposite to be true.  They didn't care.  Now that you've convinced the Boonvilleites that WWASPS is abusive you seem to have stepped up your "balls" a notch and are now saying you're going to go into towns where the programs are and put up billboards, write more letters and contribute to Rep Millers campaign even more.



Was Hinton really going to be a part of WWASPS?  Isn't the Dundee Ranch open under a new name in Costa Rica and not part of WWASPS?  That's a Lichfield, and I guarantee it is not part of WWASPS.  Even the newspaper reports in podunk Missouri got sucked into it. So would I want a couple of people that didn't have WWASPS oversight in my town?  Can't answer that.



I tend to think that the BILL sponsored by Miller won't really impact WWASPS anyway because they are not abusive.  It will impact those that are operating like the Buffalo SOldiers  or other rogue programs that are flying under the radar right now.



Thank you Perrigaud and Brown.  You are my true heros.  Look at what you are for yourselves now.  



I guess if I'm addicted to something, being addicted to the truth isn't so bad.  





"

You really do believe that all those hundreds of people who tell the world about the abuse they have endured in WWASP facilities are all part of some big conspiracy to bring you down, don't you?

It's frightening, just how far you've gone. Your critical thinking skills are destroyed. You internalise and rationalise any bit of bullshit they tell you. You are so, so sick.

[Anonymous]

"You really do believe that all those hundreds of people who tell the world about the abuse they have endured in WWASP facilities are all part of some big conspiracy to bring you down, don't you?

It's frightening, just how far you've gone. Your critical thinking skills are destroyed. You internalise and rationalise any bit of bullshit they tell you. You are so, so sick."

*****************
First, where are those hundreds of people around the world claiming, no I mean proving,  abuse?  Please don't point me in the direction of newspaper articles. They may count to you, but they don't to me. I know first hand the bias and bullshit that's in print.  Please do point me to actual criminal charges being won against WWASPS for abuse.  That's the only thing that will convince me it's widespread.  Now, I'm not saying that abuse doesn't  occur.  That's ludicrious.  People run these programs, and people make mistakes.  I've heard of employees being fired because they chose to abuse their power, but it doesn't occur nearly as often as you'd like to lead some people to believe.

And darlin - THEY don't have to tell me anything.  I know my experience, as long ago as 5 years up til now, has not shown me that any of the kids I've ever met were abused in any way.  Of course, those kids graduated, and they tell the stories of how they would write letters telling their parents all kinds of ugly little things so they could come home and get back to being the rule makers in the home. They will all say they are glad their parents were strong enough to check it out and find that they were just pulling some of their same old crap.  

I agree, my critical thinking skills are gone.  You're the critic, not me.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-30 15:26:00, Anonymous wrote:

""You really do believe that all those hundreds of people who tell the world about the abuse they have endured in WWASP facilities are all part of some big conspiracy to bring you down, don't you?



It's frightening, just how far you've gone. Your critical thinking skills are destroyed. You internalise and rationalise any bit of bullshit they tell you. You are so, so sick."



*****************

First, where are those hundreds of people around the world claiming, no I mean proving,  abuse?  Please don't point me in the direction of newspaper articles. They may count to you, but they don't to me. I know first hand the bias and bullshit that's in print.  Please do point me to actual criminal charges being won against WWASPS for abuse.  That's the only thing that will convince me it's widespread.  Now, I'm not saying that abuse doesn't  occur.  That's ludicrious.  People run these programs, and people make mistakes.  I've heard of employees being fired because they chose to abuse their power, but it doesn't occur nearly as often as you'd like to lead some people to believe.



And darlin - THEY don't have to tell me anything.  I know my experience, as long ago as 5 years up til now, has not shown me that any of the kids I've ever met were abused in any way.  Of course, those kids graduated, and they tell the stories of how they would write letters telling their parents all kinds of ugly little things so they could come home and get back to being the rule makers in the home. They will all say they are glad their parents were strong enough to check it out and find that they were just pulling some of their same old crap.  



I agree, my critical thinking skills are gone.  You're the critic, not me.  

   "

It's useless to argue with you or try to reason with you, because you can't think. All you do is repeat the same old bullshit. They did a good job on your, darlin. You are dead. You just haven't noticed it yet.

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2005-04-30 14:45:00, Anonymous wrote:

 Being told that our experience of the seminars was brainwashing in a negative sense.

Are you implying that there is a positive form of brainwashing? ::  ::

 

Being told that the kids at Cross Creek are abused even when there are other kids there that don't see it, staff, therapists, parents visiting, even the people delivering food don't see it.

But other kids, ex-staff, parents of former clients etc HAVE and ARE speaking up about it.  YOU are the ones not listening.

 

Are they so uninformed that they don't read the propaganda and sensationalism and are blindly leading their child to a life of abuse?  

No, they're either lazy, gullible or are so completely scared by their kids behavior (which more often than not is fairly typical of teens trying to find their autonomy) that they buy into all the fear mongering bullshit that WWASPS spits out.

Doubting themselves as parents.

This is ONE thing we can agree on.  They need to just trust their own parental instincts instead of turning them over to a fucking cult!!



 

The only thing kids that were pulled early learned is how to manipulate beyond what they knew they could get away with before.  Now they've got mom and dad right where they want them.

More of the "they're druggies that will say anything to get back to using" bullshit.  

They'll write letters, go on TV. go to any length to make it real to anyone who is gullible enough to believe them. And, unfortunately, there are too many that do.  Are they getting some sense of power from this?   They might even begin to believe it themselves.

Holy shit!!  That's exactly how I see you WWASPies!!  Scare the crap out of a few more parents with the 'deadinsaneorinjail' mantra!

 

All the while there was never any physical evidence or verbal evidence by anyone that witnessed it.

So you're just completely discounting the people who say they HAVE witnessed or experienced abuse??

What you call abusive treatment is no more than kids having to follow rules to get more privileges.

Depends on what your definition of a "privilege" is.

It's starting at square one, back to the beginning before the kids starting making the rules.  

If the kids truly are making all the rules then the parent is slacking in their job!

What you call brainwashing is no more than a little re-wiring in a positive sense.

As a good friend has put it...there ain't no pretty way to brainwash/rewire/break a kid.  NONE.  ALL of it leaves lasting damage.

Don't even compare this with Hitler, etc.,  They used whatever they did for their own gain.

Ah, to be so young and naive again.

 

Cross Creek and the seminars, the group sessions, the levels, the positive peer pressure, the support groups, the after care coaching and workshops are all meant to create a place of self-empowerment.

Actually, they do just the opposite.  They teach and preach powerlessness and dependency on groups/steps/creedos/scripts etc.

 

I've never met a robot as some have said.

Take a long, hard look in the mirror.

Of course, I've heard a lot of robots on this form saying the same crap over and over again about programs being abusive.

I don't think any of us has ever said the EVERY single person was abused but you seem quite comfortable in stating unequivocably that NO abuse occurred.....PERIOD.  Hmmm.
 

I tend to think that the BILL sponsored by Miller won't really impact WWASPS anyway because they are not abusive.

That would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

 

None of Nature's landscapes are ugly so long as they are wild.
-- John Muir

[Antigen]

Perri, it's easy to continue to believe something entirely false. All you have to do is disregard the evidence. That's what you're doing. Never mind the newspapers, how about all of the WWASP facilities that have been closed down? How'd that happen? According to Program dogma, they got the results they asked for, right?

But there's a double standard, isn't there? When hundreds of different people make the same complaints consistently, year after year, WWASP says they're flawed, failures, disgruntled ex students, parents, employees or mysteriously corrupt journalists. Everybody in the world has a grudge, but WWASP is just okey dokey.

Why doesn't Ken Kay take responsibility for the results he's getting? How is it that when something bad happens in your life it's your fault but when something bad happens to WWASP it's not their fault?

There is something feeble and contemptible about a man who cannot face life without the help of comfortable myths.
--Bertrand Russell, British philosopher, educator, mathemetician, and social critic