My Son At Thayer

[Troll Control]

On 2005-05-05 09:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Dear Friends:



On 09/05/04 I made a post on this site entitled, "Why I post anomalously".



Since some of you may not have seen this post, let me restate the salient point.  It is also the reason why I am not going to inform you of the university my son is at.



I received the following e-mail (my e-mail address was posted back in Sept., '04), from one of your fellow sophicates, a Mr. Devlin Graves, as follows:



"i just sent a copy of your post on the Fomits Board and sent it to the

Divsion of Family Servies in Missouri. What you admitted that goes on in Thayer is child abuse and you by keeping your kid there you are now a party to it. Congragulations the DFS will find your identity and hunt you down and i hope they lock you up, and take your kid away! You should be spaded and neudered. Your no parent.."



To give you the full flavor of Mr Graves prose, I have left his spelling and syntax in their original glory.



Now, I know what you are all thinking, "Why didn't his Mom and Dad send him to English camp."



Well, I just don't know.  It might of been on account Mr. Graves pharmacological interests; or perhaps, for some other reason.



Now gentle reader, if you received such an e-mail, would you be prepared to disclose on this site sensitive personal information?



Fondest Regards, Nemo



"

I find it funny that someone who aims to deride others by criticizing their "comprehension" level can't even spell ANONYMOUSLY.

I find it funnier still that the word he used instead of "anonymously" was ANOMALOUSLY, meaning "deviating from the general or common order or type," which actually describes his posts...

My conclusion:  Capt Nemo is a cognitively impaired deviant.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-05-05 21:13:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Thank you very much for you supportive comments.



You are right, this website is basically the land of the losers.  Everyone is a fashionable victim.  I have never seen a former boot camp attendee ever write about just what self-destructive (and almost certainly illegal) behavior caused their parents to send them off.  They are all victims.  Come on now gang, be men (or women).  Stand up for your own self-destructive choices and actions.  Admit that most of you were drug abusers (probably still are) and that you could not control yourselves.  



No, no one wants to own up to his or her teen-ager behavior.  If you read the posts, sound something along the lines of this:  I was a good (well, mostly good) teen.  One day I was walking home from school and was abducted by space aliens. They kidnapped me and took me to this awful place called boot camp...."



The most candor one finds is when someone says they were "doing teenage stuff", which one will "grow out of".  That comment seems to encompass such "stuff" as drug use/dealing, violent behavior, rebellion against parental authority, running away, drunkenness, failing school, etc.  A good truth-in-posting-rule would require each poster to honestly state the actions and choices he or she made that caused his or her parents to spend their hard earned money in attempt to save their child.



Some posters, such as Ginger, required two trips.  Ginger, why did you not give up drugs the first go-around?  



The answers back are all the same:  Quack, quack, quack -- if you support any boot camp program you are a child abuser -- quack, quack, give-me-another-joint, quack, quack, etc.



From what the parents write, the biggest problem seems to be they took their kids out too soon.  So, parents, are you happy now with your teens?  Are they back on drugs?  Do you sleep well at night when they are out?  Do they sound like Devlin?



What kills you victims out their in Frontisland is when people like us write about how the book camp worked for our kids.  It just highlights that you failed.  Failed utterly.  Failed completely.  And that in those dark moments of your loneliness, when one drug is wearing off and the other has yet to take effect (sound familiar Ginger?) you realize, despite all of your claims of "abuse" and "torture", that you are failures:  you failed as teens and now fail as adults.  Now, in that desperate search for meaning, the search that gives you some glimmer to live for, you must attack the vary programs that might have saved you from your current oblivion.



And so, you all meet up each evening.  You convince yourselves that your are victims (thus not responsible for your own behavior) and rile against those who have saved their children from your fate.  And then, when you log off your computer and pass by the mirror, you look at yourself and know the truth...



Fondest Regards, Nemo





"

If you all are such enlightened sophisticates and great parents, why are your kids so incredibly fucked up?

Look at yourselves in the mirror and say: "I fucked up so bad at parenting that I had to give my kid to strangers in Missouri to do the job I couldn't do."  

Isn't that the objective reality here?  

Of course, shifting the focus to others gives you a convenient refuge from the truth: you are horrible parents who couldn't even provide the basics of child-rearing in your own homes.

[Anonymous]

Don't know all the dynamics of the grudge-matches on this thread, just happened upon it in search of a piece of info about Thayer and complimented Nemo's interesting post a day or so back:  now I'm Nemo's sychopant.  Whatever.

The last poster says that we parents of kids who end up at therapeutic boarding schools have screwed up big time.  Really???

I would think that would be obvious: when kids reach a point at which parents are willing to be separated from them and to pay (at least on our family budget) devestating amounts of money to help them, well, to say the least, something is terribly wrong.

And if I raised the kid, how can I not be part of that "terribly wrong".  I mean it's not universally true: you could have, say, an adopted kid who went thru such terrible things before the adoption, that even really attentive, adequate parenting can't turn things around. You could have a kid with mental problems that lead to certain outcomes regardless of parenting style.

In our own case, I'll be the first to say that we were too focused on the material world and success and not emotionally in touch with our kid, not supportive and understanding enough of his needs and problems: it wasn't about some big intentionally abusive thing, in our case at least, it was about not accepting and knowing the kid for who he was. And teaching him that who he was was good enough.

Of  course the kid's choices played a part in the whole downward spiral---but we were the adults, we allowed the thing to take form and we will always be sorry and ashamed of that. Not because some stranger on a web site calls us names---but because we know that we could have done better if we had been more aware---and we weren't.

That's why the whole school experience has changed us for the better as well as helping our kid change, we've learned from the parenting program, our family is overall 100% stronger and happier because of that school (we didn't use Thayer BTW, we looked into and found a place we chose as being the best match for us). We're several years post his graduation and we continue to be amazed at what that school did for all of us.

So my point is this to the previous poster: yes we screwed up.  But we did what we had to do to change things.  Isn't that how life is sometimes: you make a terrible mistake intentionally or unintentionally--- and then it's up to you to find the best solution you can.

Sorry you hate Thayer so much, I'll be the first to say I don't know much about that school but I do know other people who don't see it your way at all.

And I continue to congratulate Nemo and other parents who didn't just say "my kid is destroying his life, I'm going to let him learn from his choices, follow his own path"---I just happen to think that as parents, imperfect as we are, benign neglect in the face of disaster is not an option.

I think that the last poster and I could agree however that a therapeutic boarding school is a last option, not a first----it sure was for us.

[SPEAKINGOUT]

First, where are the post's from Perri and Amanda? I would like to read them!
Second,I have read through every post and have not found people who are calling you or Nemo, or any other person claiming no abuse a liar.  We are simply saying that ALL of our children either were abused or neglected, or saw children who were.  And as TLC Rescue points out- the fact that some kids are abused/neglected should be enough for any parent to decide that there may be a better program out there for their child.  That's the point we have been trying to make.  Unfortunately there is so much other jargon we can't stay on the point.
All I have been trying to ask Nemo is to verify his claims about TLC's academics by telling us the universities- HAVE you noticed that he has never answered that ?? that I posed several times. Because this is a BIG issue it is the only one I kept trying to get an answer to.  NEVER DID!!
We never accused him of lying about his son's experience there (lack of abuse/neglect)- we only wondered if it mattered that it does happen.  Again, even if our posts here don't matter- read the news articles about the Reye's boys death investigation.  It is CLEAR that he DID NOT receive prompt medical care from TLC- even if they have not decided whether charges will be filed or not-that should be enough to lift an eyebrow.  
Also, no one was claiming that they are a victim, that we were perfect parents, that our kids were "good" kids, or any of those other attacks made against us.  Ginger never said that either.  Devlin has not been in a school to my knowledge, he is just a good ol'guy advocating against abusive schools.  Somehow all of us have been "slammed".  So what if someone does not have the same English level as you do, that doesn't mean that he does not have a heart, or a brain.  So what if Ginger was placed in one of these schools, it doesn't make her less of a human being, or a US citizen, or a grown-up.  There are some very good parents who have raised some really bad kids, there are an equal number of parents who are really bad parents who have raised some really good kids.  I don't think that we need to attack people's character.  The only point I was trying to make about being a parent was just that.  I don't care who the parent is, if they knowingly send children to a school where there is alleged abuse going on- even if it's only to 1/2 the population- there is something wrong with them.  That is basically saying that 1/2 the population doesn't "matter".   The point again is that all kids matter, and that we did not send them there to be abused/neglected, or to witness such, we sent them there to be helped.
I was also criticized about my comment about Child Protective Services.  It is TRUE what I said.  Read the Reyes report, listen to the TLC rescue mom who's son's ankle was broken, listen to my son who saw kid's "dropped" to the ground, who was sick and was refused medical treatment, and so many others.  Lot's listed on the Isac website.  Go check it out and then let us know if these claims were against a school (even if they weren't PROVEN)- would you send your child there? And, if you "allegedly" did any of these things to your child would you be arrested?  That's the question.  Now, regarding being "proven"- let me explain what is currently going on in Missouri with the Dept. of Social Services.  I will QUOTE part of their response from a letter I received from them regarding a claim I had made against TLC.  I will use the name "John Doe" for all victims to protect their identity.
AND I QUOTE:
"Administration at Thayer Learning Center was asked to provide any medical information for "John Doe" and asked to allow us to speak with students and staff who might have had information regarding the allegations.  The only information received was that they dispose of all information about students when they leave the facility.  There is no available evidence to support a Probable Cause finding therefore the finding is Unsubstantiated.
It was alleged a black student with the last name of "Doe" was physically abused by staff members of Thayer Learning Center.  When the request was made, at the facility, for information about a student with this name, staff said they had multiple black males with the last name of "Doe" and we were not allowed to speak with any student.  There was no response to a letter to Thayer Administration requesting identifying information and requesting the opportunity to speak with other students and staff.  This hotline is coded Unable to Locate based on the fact we were not able to identify the alleged victim."
END OF QUOTE

So, basically if TLC decides not to "cooperate" (which they did in this case)- there is nothing that the Dept. of Social Serv. can do.
How does that sit with you?  Doesn't sit with me AT ALL!!

As far as the "industry" as a whole- we are not bashing it, we are only talking about our own experiences with the ones that proved to US to be bad choices.
Again, we sent our son to another program after TLC. So, it's not about "all programs" - you just happen to be on this "topic" where we believe this school is.

[Anonymous]

Last poster (SPEAKING OUT): Do I read this correctly?  

What I think you are saying is that you have no argument with the fact that some kids, for reasons of who they are and/or of what has happened in their lives, need to be in a therapeutic boarding school for a while so that they can have good lives.  You don't like or trust Thayer, that's your point?

Don't know whether you're right or wrong about Thayer, (that's why I'm trying to learn about it on this thread, for reasons of advising another parent)--- but if you aren't one of the social anarchists who simply doesn't want any restraints on self-destructive kids, well, then I get where you're coming from: whether you're right or wrong about Thayer is a separate issue.  

The people who drive me crazy are the ones who would discard adulthood and just let kids do what they will, like it's all good to throw away their futures and we should all say "Well it's their choice".  I won't. Never.

BTW I don't care about Devlin's grammar or Nemo's refusal to talk about universities (sorry Nemo, I thought you were a mom, I guess you're a dad, my mistake), these seem like small issues, I care about encouraging parents to act like grown-ups-- and I guess that my point is that I don't see enough of them here on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Yes, this is Nemo and I am a father.

Thayer uses the American School of Correspondence for its high school.  They have been around since the late 19th century.  They are accredited. Thus, one does not get a "Thayer Diploma", but one rather from the American School.  

While my son was accepted at three universities, we applied to more.  No university questioned the American School Diploma.  Should you be interested, you can check out their website.

Best Regards, Nemo

[SPEAKINGOUT]

The answer to your question is no, I am not against all theraputic schools.  There is certainly a place for them, and I do work with parents referred to me to try to help them find a good one when that's what they need.  I am not an Education Consultant by trade, just a better educated parent about these programs. After what I went through with Thayer I have a sharper eye for the bull, and know how to ask the right questions of the right people, and do a little background on it all.
Sending your child away to a boarding school is always (or should always be) a last resort.

The people who post (for the most part) on this board are parents of rescued Thayer students.  It's not that we don't believe in the programs- cuz we sent our kid there.  Now, some parents are so scared that they NO LONGER believe that there is a "good" program out there, and they don't even care if there is because their kid is so freaked out now that they don't want to send them away in fear that they might not get them back (like the Reyes boy).

you said: "The people who drive me crazy are the ones who would discard adulthood and just let kids do what they will, like it's all good to throw away their futures and we should all say "Well it's their choice". I won't. Never. "
of course I agree with you- so do most of the other parents on this sight (i know most of them myself).  The ones that don't well- then why are they on this sight in the first place?

You also said: "BTW I don't care about Devlin's grammar or Nemo's refusal to talk about universities (sorry Nemo, I thought you were a mom, I guess you're a dad, my mistake), these seem like small issues, I care about encouraging parents to act like grown-ups-- and I guess that my point is that I don't see enough of them here on this thread."
If you are in fact trying to help another parent decide what they should do with their child then you SHOULD care about the academic aspect of the program- unless of course a good education doesn't matter.  Now, you will notice that Nemo posted AGAIN after our posts and STILL DID NOT NAME the Universities.  It is important because many of us have been told that it is worthless, and that the universities will not accept it.  I wouldn't KNOW first hand BECAUSE MY SON did not get ANY CREDITS from them- ask around how many kids did- and if they actually got accepted to a University, WHICH ONES??
Something else to note about Nemo was that he considered his son well adjusted because he was getting A's AND LAID SEVERAL TIMES A WEEK.
Is that a parent acting like a grown-up?
Want to know what Nemo is going to do when the son that he is so proud of for his active sex life contracts some lifetime STD, or gets a girl pregnant, or worse- gets AIDS.  Then he will really have something to deal with.  
I also care about the stuff going on at Thayer and other schools like it because it is wrong, and kids are being neglected, abused and in some instances killed.  No matter how bad a child is they do not deserve to be treated like that.
I've said my peace here.  Hope that it's clear.

[Anonymous]

Nemo,
I'll say it straight up, unless you are referring to community colleges as universities you are a liar.  The American Schools program is completely worthless in gaining entrance to any university.

Parent of Thayer victim

[Antigen]

You can settle this pretty easily. Call around some major universities and ask if they accept American Schools diplomas or not.

Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
--Thomas Paine

[Anonymous]

The American Schools have a website that is easily accessed by a google search, apparently they offer two programs, a college prep one and a general one.

As far as I could see they did not list any stats about how many of their grads go to college but I didn't look around their site exhaustively so I may have missed something

But you know, it's true that lots of kids who are home-schooled get into college, largely on the basis of SAT and other college-entrance exam scores---so I'd bet that if the American Schools curriculum prepares a kid adequately enough to score well on these kinds of tests they're going to get in---but calling and asking registrars at universities and colleges would be an easy way to sure about this.

Question remains: how important are the academics when you've got a kid in crisis, I mean, education is relatively important and all, but you can always pick up additional course work later on.

To me, the main thing is whether the therapeutic  school (Thayer or any other) helps the kid stop being self destructive and helps to develop self love and acceptance. I get that some people here don't think that Thayer is good in that department and some do.

[Anonymous]

Not only was the American School diploma good enough to get him admitted to a 4 year university (his high SAT scores helped as well), it got him an academic scholarship which pays 50%of his tuition.

As Ginger posted, all one need do is call around to some universities.  

The Thayer-haters are an interesting lot.  Not only do they hate Thayer, but they seemingly hate any organization Thyer works with.  Do Thayer-haters also hate the Post Office, after all, Thayer does use the U.S. mail?

Fondest Regards, Nemo

Nemo

[hugakid]

I am thoroughly disgusted at what I have read here today. I came on here to learn about Thayer because I heard about the child who died there. Unbelievable how you people talk to one another. You should truly be ashamed of yourselves.

Absolutely unbelievable!! A child died there??!!! Isn't there something wrong with that picture? Many complain of abuse there??!!! And still people choose to praise such a program?

Well, I'm not a person who was at a program. Ever. I've never put a child in a program. I only know of this through kids I care about whose abusive parents sent them to a horribly abusive place.

From what I can see here, people are trying so desperately to get these "pro-Thayer" folks to hear them when they say:

"Kids are abused at Thayer.
Kids are miserable at Thayer.
Kids lose a piece of themselves at Thayer.
A kid died at Thayer."

Somehow, for me, a person who has never been in a program, never looked for a program, who just knows they exist and the damage they can cause, looks at everything written, and given the information, and even the acknowledgment from the "pro-Thayer folks" that they know bad things go on there, that kids are abused there. They do not deny it. As a parent, there is no way in hell that I would ever for one second consider sending my child, if I were looking for a program, to a place with this type of history. EVER!!

You just have no idea, you pro-Thayer folks, at how stupid you sound for continuing to promote it and for hurting others who so desparately want everyone to know about the pain and damage programs can do to people.

You acuse people of taking drugs, still today. How do you know this and how dare you make that kind of statement? Shame on you. You're not as bright as you think you are. Your son did great? You think so now. Things seem great now. Eventually what happened there, because no matter what you think, he saw what happened there and he knows, deep inside of him, that what happened to his friends was out and out wrong. It is black and it is white. It was wrong, no question about it.

Some day he may have a very tough time trying to cope with the reality of what happened to so many others. And he may be haunted by what happened to them. And he may eventually get very angry at you for putting him there. He's in college? Not out long? Well, it takes a while, just wait. They don't tell all until about 5 years later, some sooner. But eventually it comes around full circle. Do the research, I have been, for the sake of kids who I care about. Not even my own!

[SPEAKINGOUT]

You are right as far as the academics not being the most important, but it is important overall- and even more so if your kid is 17 and flunking his Jr. year- what happens when he turns 18 and does not have a high school education?  that's not looking good for his employment opportunities, and college, well obviously that would be out of the ??
Again, in our case (and lot's of other kids too) they never got out of bootcamp- did you know that while a kid is in bootcamp they DO NOT GET ANY ACADEMICS AT ALL!!!!  Now, if that were a week, or even a month - but what frequently happens is that the kid is held in bootcamp for well over 100 days(their website estimation of the typical student is much less) or that they move to residency and then get put back into bootcamp.  They are doing good (per your family rep. every week, going to graduate- then something happens, they get moved back- looking good, going to graduate- something happens, gets moved back- this is a typical cycle around there too.  
Anyway- I believe you are the same writer that called Thayer a theraputic program.  They do not have any therapists on staff, and if it is requested it is an additional fee, so it is really NOT a theraputic school.  It is a bootcamp.  A hell hole, and I would not even go as far as calling it a school.  Actually go and see it- I was horrified!  We sent our son there on a recommendation from Parent Help (a company that per our contract was a "third party consulting firm" but happens to be owned by TLC).
We went to the TLC website to see this beautiful building sitting on what appeared to be a green rolling hill and green meadow all around it.  It was simply perfect.  (that was until we realized that they actually took an old picture of the building and put it on a windows backdrop and represented to all the people who went on the sight that it actually looked like that!)  The website has been changed- but I printed it all out and have copies for anyone to see.  We were also highly discouraged to bring our child there and were urged to use a transport service as we were told stories about what could happen if we tried to bring our child and he did not cooperate. Why not let the professionals handle it?  They could help us with that too.  Oh, they forgot to mention that they also own the Transport service, oh, the "third party billing company" 2b Enterprises- they own them too.  Sorry, forgot to tell you all these things when we asked you to sign this huge contract stating that they are basically NOT liable for ANYTHING.
I could go on and on for hours, but- the bottom line is IF they were so reputable why the lies and deception?  Try this out!  Call Parent Help
800-688-8706.  Tell them you have this problem kid, 15 or so, see if they don't refer you to TLC.  Then- see if they tell you that they are affiliated with them.  Also ask them some ?? about their medical procedures, or child saftey record or something- and see if they tell you that a boy died.  They recently deleted question(s) off their FAQ's about "serious injuries" or "deaths", because of course they don't want to have to say YES, so let's just "remove" it.
You check it out for yourself.  Someone we know recently called and tested it out.  They passed the "deception" test real good!
The education is certainly NOT THE MOST important thing- as I said in my last post- IF only 50% of the kids in a program (ANY PROGRAM) were being neglected/abused, or allegations of such were being made as to such- should a parent send their child there.  That's the bottom line ?? that should be answered- and the obvious answer is ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Again, there are good programs out there that are without scandal- (and that IF something should go wrong the authorities have jurisdiction over them)- I believe that parents need to be REALLY careful not to allow desperation to drive them to a decision without a FULL investigation, even if that means by a P.I.
I still like Ginger's suggestion-call around to some major Universities and see what they think.
Or, maybe Nemo will cough up his two or three?!?
NOT, better call around!

[tlcrescue]

I agree with you speaking out on the business related entities. We contacted parent help because we were looking for a good "academic" school for us son.  He was not violent, he was not into drugs, he had never been trouble with the law, just had difficulties with education.  We were trying to find a school (and thought a boarding school was a right choice) to help him "academically".  Of course, Parent Help insisted that Thayer was the place for him.  I was hesitatent because of the boot camp side of it, but their pitch on that was " we address ADHD children with proper fitness and diet" and that is how we teach them to cope with ADHD without medication, and that is how we teach them to excel acamedically.

But, on the other hand, they also recommend Thayer to people that have children on drugs, gangs, etc.  What is wrong with that picture?  That isn't about helping the children, that is about making a fast buck!  Plain and simple!

So all of you anons that want to come on here and criticize us parents for "being bad parents", get a grip on life!  I was seeking out an educational facility for my son, and Thayer is what they recommended.

BTW....my son is the one who had his ankle fractured!  So yes, I am a bit biased when it comes to Thayer.

And, everyone is falling into the trap of Nemo...I still BELIEVE he is connected to the Thayer web, whether it be by employment, or otherwise....you know, that spider web that has different organizations all spun into one.

He is attempting to pul everyone into his games...and when that doesn't work, he chooses to lash out yall (us) by calling us names and incompetent.  Wow....that speaks volumes for his parenting skills!  When you can't face reality as it is presented to you, let's just lash out and call names!  Umm...if I recall correctly, isnt that what you do in the third grade?

And, I must point out Nemo..you have YET to respond to any question I have posed to you, your only response to date have been "general slurs" against any parent who speaks out against Thayer.  Are you afraid to answer my questions?

[SPEAKINGOUT]

TLC Rescue- My son had the academic problem too.  He wasn't in a gang or anything either, although he was certainly disrespectful and depressed.  I know he was smoking pot, although I tested him for other drugs and he was clean?  He was hanging out with the wrong kids and flunking school- he did tell me about some of the kids there that he was afraid of because they had deeper-serious issues, like they were criminals or were in gangs.  I agree that there is something (lot's of things wrong with TLC!!)
Also- regarding the Nemo thing... He has not answered anyone's ??- and we can bet he never will.  
Did you like his last post where he was talking about hanging out on "different" sights when his wife is at work?  Alot of other childish remarks, lot's framed around the sex theme, so I think the sights are male entertainment ones.  Look at what he said about his son having sex several times a week as a success!  You gotta know he's tweeked.  Don't allow his poison to penetrate you, that what the 'recluse' did to the Reyes boy.