Phoenix- New Wilderness employs ex CEDU

[Anonymous]

But parents aren't interested in anything but hurting and punishing their kid in ways they cannot do at home.

That's about as dumb as saying "Programs aren't interested in anything but helping kids be healthy and happy in ways that parents, families, friends and therapists could not do at home."

Thanks I'll take that into consideration.

[Anonymous]

I know where that is....that house used to be a bed and breakfast I think. And you're right, the logos are similar. Maybe someone should bring that up to the Asheville School's office.

[Anonymous]

Where does a parent go? What does a parent do? I have tried everything I can think of. My child just stabbed his sibling and what do I do? He does not see what he did is not justified under any conditioned, no matter how much he felt provoked or wronged –people don’t survive (at a minimum) by responding violently to others.
He went back to school few day early but I don’t know that they will allow him to remain once the admins are back. I wish I had an meaningful alternative to this place because they are so apathetic and not really THERAPEUTIC but I don’t know where else he can really get meaningful help. Reading your experiences I have to be thankful that at least, and I mean at LEAST he is safe – physically and mentally.
You must have been through some really bad shit to think ALL parents want to dump their kids, make them suffer and then go and have a party.
I am so frustrated, I feel impotent, and I feel useless. I don’t know what to do or where to turn. I don’t know where I can get help my child nor who I can trust!
I have been coming to this board hoping to get some information, some alternative options, a direction but nothing.
Does anyone out there have any experience, any idea or info that can help me help my child? He needs help through this tumultuous period of trying to find himself, to grow up, to become an adult, he needs the chance to survive and succeed.

[Anonymous]

What does a parent do? We have tried everything we can think of, therapy, doctors, workshops, leave him alone, don't leave him alone. My child just stabbed his sibling and what do we do now? He does not see what he did is not justified under any conditioned - it is always someone else's fault or responsibility, not his.
We took him went back to school early because it is not safe for him or us to be home together. I don’t know that the school will allow him to remain once the admins are back.
I wish I knew of a meaningful alternative to this place, they are apathetic and not truly THERAPEUTIC but I don’t know where he can really get meaningful help.
Reading your experiences I have to be thankful that at least, and I mean at LEAST he is safe – physically and mentally.
You must have been through some really bad shit to think ALL parents want to dump their kids, make them suffer and then go and have a party.
I am so frustrated, I feel impotent, and I useless. I don’t know what to do or where to turn. I don’t know where I can get help my child nor who I can trust!
I have been coming to this board hoping to get some tangible information, some alternative options that I can use but I have found nothing yet.
Does anyone out there have any experience, any ideas or info that can help me help my child? He needs help there is no arguement on that but what, how and where are the questions.  He needs a chance...

[Anonymous]

My child just stabbed his sibling and what do we do now?

Did he get charged with a crime?  Rule out any type of cohersive treatment facilities.  Find somewhere near home, where the whole family can get treatment and be receptive to it.  Sending him away to get fixed won't work.  Try stuggling people, psy has a parent board where you can ask questions freely.

[Anonymous]

My child just stabbed his sibling and what do we do now? ... We took him went back to school

So you sent him to a shitpit, he stabbed his sibling, and now you're sending him back to the same hellhole?

He stabbed the wrong fucking person, and you're dumb enough to believe more of the same will help.

Wow. Stupidity really is genetic.

[Deborah]

And which pit takes 'violent' or dangerous kids? They all claim not to.

[psy]

Try stuggling people, psy has a parent board where you can ask questions freely.

Provided you don't attack any other posters, yes.  Moderators are survivors, researchers, and parents (with at least one person who leans pro-program).  No opinions are verboten.

Of course, Keep in mind that educational consultants posting on my site, who don't identify themselves as such, will be outed very publicly and banned (and probably later humiliated on Fornits)...  with a great deal of cheerful enthusiasm on my part.  That isn't to say they aren't allowed to post.  They are... just as long as they don't misrepresent who they are (which probably explains why none have registered so far).  Unlike the, unfortunately shut down (yes, i know, it's a frickin tragedy), StrugglingTeens website, Programs names are allowed and encouraged.  Advice on why not to make stupid decisions (and local solutions such as legitimate family therapy) is provided by people such as Maia Szalavitz, Cathy Sutton, and many parents who have made mistakes, and generally don't recommend sending the kid off.

If you want to be the first parent to say "hey... let's send him off"... go ahead.  Nobody is stopping you.  I suggest, however, you not send him off, because any facility that would accept a kid with a history of violence is definitely one to avoid (which, makes pretty much all of them, despite their advertising on "we care about your child's safety"(please sign this liability release)).

[Anonymous]

As a former field instructor for phoenix outdoor I am not surprised at all about the news of Aspen taking over operations. It is equally interesting to see the PR wheels turning and putting a positive spin on a failed experiment.  Failed if only measured by taking the original mission as promoted by founders and owners Carolyn Bradfield and Bruce Ahern as the measuring stick.

The whole premise of starting Phoenix Outdoor and their unique selling proposition was its focus on the family as a whole instead of only dealing with the "problem" child and effectively cutting the rest of the family out of the equation.  The inspiration for this as so often shared by Caroline herself was her own experiences as a parent with the wilderness program her daughter attended.

No matter how noble and valid this observation may have been, it still raises a fundamental question. Will starting a whole new wilderness program influence the wilderness therapy industry as a whole to address this crucial issue in a positive way?  

If parental involvement in the therapeutic process is the key issue maybe an association of parents would provide a more effective tool.  If such an association standing for the interest of parents were to really exist it is difficult to imagine that commercial wilderness programs would not be sensitive to their demands and wishes.  

The net result of the sale of phoenix outdoor is that a large conglomerate (Aspen) swallows yet another (well intended) miss-managed wilderness startup. In doing so there is no pressure or incentive for Aspen to address the underlying concerns which was the very reason of existence for Phoenix outdoor in the first place.  As long as there is a vacuum in the form of the absence of a real parent interest group nothing will change in the area of adopting a more holistic family approach to wilderness therapy.

Bruce Ahern writes:

We follow an employee-ownership model by giving percentages of the business to our key management team.

If the purpose of a wilderness program is to raise the level of reflection and consciousness of kids there is obviously a lot of work to be done in the area of adults.  Phoenix was run as a top down hierarchical organization with little employee input other then the occasional lip service and employee venting sessions.  Employee-ownership model is generally understood to be just that, employee-owned and not just a select minority of all of the employees namely key management.  Incidentally this must be something relatively new or otherwise a secret well kept, which again would not speak well for the overall integrity. Knowing the salary and general benefits and conditions Aspen pays its employees, this attempt of looking good becomes rather laughable. Phoenix was sold because it was not financially profitable without any immediate prospect of turning around. Bad management and lousy strategic decisions being at least part to blame.

[Deborah]

Asheville House Transitional Living Program Offered for Sale

ASHEVILLE, N.C., Aug. 30, 2007 (PRIME NEWSWIRE) -- Asheville House, a short term transitional living program for adolescents in their latter years of high school and young adults, announced today that the program, along with its campus of residential and educational facilities in Asheville, North Carolina is being offered for sale.
 
Asheville House opened to residents this spring and was filled through the summer months. The program offered a unique combination of transitional living and therapeutic support focused on participants with drug and alcohol addiction. It also featured a strong educational component to support students finishing high school requirements and taking early college classes through its on site education center.

"We firmly believe in the concept of Asheville House and are anxious to locate a new owner who will be a strong steward of the work we've begun here," said Carolyn Bradfield, founder of Asheville House. "We suspended operations of the facility this month when our last group of residents graduated. Our goal is to work with a new owner to re-establish the program within the coming months."

"Asheville is an ideal location for a therapeutic program," added Bradfield. "It is rated one of the top 10 places to live in the country, has a tremendous labor pool of mental health professionals, a wide variety of recreational opportunities and a community that is very supportive of therapeutic programs. For those in recovery, Asheville boasts a large and diverse young people's community in recovery."

The campus has all of the necessary permits and inspections for city occupancy. It is recognized by the city of Asheville as a commercial property and zoned as a group home. The facility is license-eligible as a residential program by the NC Department of Health and Human Services having been licensed recently by the previous owners.  :question:

The property is fully furnished, with technology and supplies necessary to open a fully functioning program immediately. Additionally, there are two passenger vans that come with the program.

About Asheville House

Asheville House was founded as a 3 to 6 month transitional living program for adolescents in their latter years of high school or early years of college. The program worked with individuals who have been in drug and alcohol treatment, wilderness therapy, residential treatment programs, or therapeutic boarding schools.

http://www.primenewswire.com:80/newsroo ... l?d=125912

[Oscar]

Dont be happy - you are working:

From: Joanna 's Myspace blog

It was the week after my first training at Phoenix Outdoor. I had received some feedback from my managers that I acted 'happy all of the time', they suggested that I used my smile as a kind of defense mechanism---to keep me from "dealing" with difficult people or situations.

Somehow I remember when I saw the obituary of my former school teacher:

A warm heart and two hands stopped beating

If a smile isn't allowed at a certain workplace, I would quit right away.

[try another castle]

Old bumped threads totally throw me off sometimes. I was like "holy shit! Deb's posting again! Hi Deborah!!" Then I realize it was from 2005 and Im all "awww bummer"

It was the week after my first training at Phoenix Outdoor. I had received some feedback from my managers that I acted 'happy all of the time', they suggested that I used my smile as a kind of defense mechanism---to keep me from "dealing" with difficult people or situations.

rrrraaaauuugh.. grmph... rugh... mothafuk *steam shoots out ears*  :flame:

Anyway, that would be my reaction.

You just... can.... not... win


Maybe I should cobble together a frustrated emoticon.

[Anonymous]

Psy wrote:  It's true. My parents were fooled... Shit.. I was fooled. It sounded nice on the tour. There are some parents who really couldn't care less about their kids... but they usually don't care enough to post on Fornits or do research.

Why were you sent to a program?

[Antigen]

Right there with ya, TAC, on all three points.

[Anonymous]

Right there with ya, TAC, on all three points.