Author Topic: SURVIVORS & Parents please read...What would you do?  (Read 9233 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
SURVIVORS & Parents please read...What would you do?
« on: April 12, 2005, 02:25:00 AM »
I am here humbly asking for advice, guidance & your opinions. I am a parent of what I beleive to be a truly troubled teen. I would like to give you some background information on my child.
Prior to last year, my child had always been a good student, thoughtful, funny, compassionate, & overall a really intersting, fascinating kid.

Approximately 7 months she began a downward spiral into depression, self mutilation, suicidal ideation, & at times homicidal ideation.
Her grades began to drop rapidly, she stopped caring about her appearance, often not showering for 3 -4 days & then only showering after a huge arguement between us. She stopped fixing her hair & wearing decent clothes, choosing to wear her pajamas to school instead & refusiing to comb her hair. Her grades continued to fall..she is now failing several classes. She also began to hang out with some new friends. This group of friends idealized & romanticized suicide, self mutilation & death. She eventually left that group, only to find a new group that is equally fascinated with the macabre. She began self mutilating & hid it successfully from us for over a month. When we found out, we talked with her to try understand what is going on. She began seeing a therapist. She beagn having suicidal ideations & auditory hallucinations & the therapist reccomended an acute adolescent hospital. She satyed less than 2 weeks, began medication treatment & was discharged. She had to return to the hospital after several weeks home due to increased suicidal ideation,& a suicide attempt. She  stayed for several weeks at the hospital.
While she was in the hospital she met a young man who is very disturbed; disassociative disorder, homicidal, suicidal, self mutilates, schizophrenic, etc... They were forbidden to talk to each other in the hospital, due to a budding romance between them.
It is the hospitals policy, as well as the reccomendation of all the doctor's & therapists that these two not be able to have contact with one another when they were released from the hospital.

While in the hospital the second time, my dughter also disclosed sexual abuse she had suffered at the hand of a friend's uncle when she was younger.
Now she is out & refuses to talk to anyone about the sexual abuse, & has made some subtle & not so subtle comments about being raped in the past. Again, she refuse to discuss this with anyone: friend, family, therapist, stranger.

She had been told not to have contact with the boy she met in the hospital. She agreed to that. She has been seeing him for months. Her web of lies & deceit is quite impressive.
Her self mutilation has increased once again.
She is no longer rooted in reality. She has convinced herself of some pretty bizarre beliefs & untruths.
She is obsessed with death & dying. She often pleads with us to let her die. She continues to break every rule we set down & show absolutely no remorse for doing so.
She is going to be kicked out of school soon, for her failing grades.
She is still in therapy, still taking meds.
We have tried everything...talking, laughing, loving, hugging, yelling, crying, pleading, taking away privileges, adding privileges, you name it, we have done it.
I see my precious daughter slipping away from herself & from us. I don't know what to do.
After reading a lot of these horror stories from the survivors & parents on this site, I question what I should do.
I would especially be interested in hearing from other kids who have gone through this. I would like to know your thoughts & opinions on how you wish your parents had handled things & how you would do things different if you could.
The last thing I want to do is cause my daughter any pain. I just don't want to wake up to find her gone either.
By the way she is only 14 years old.

Thanks,
A worried parent
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Greene Bean

  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
SURVIVORS & Parents please read...What would you do?
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2005, 02:54:00 AM »
I wish I could give you some advice. I am going through a similar situation with my daughter.
I have researched a lot of different treatment options. I have read  a lot of stories on this site. it has really opened my eyes to what can happen uder the guise of "treatment".
You can e mail me privately if you would like to.
I don't know where you are located, but you may want to check with your local mental health alliance for treatment options in your home city.

I was a troubled teen also, as was my husband.
My husband spent 2 years in a RTC back in the early 1980's. He still has a hard time talking about it. He is still angry with his parents, but he now understands why they put him there. As a father of a troubled girl, he sees how devastating & lethal these behaviors can be. He said if we could find a safe, healthy therapuetic RTC that would benefit her & help her, he wouldn't hesitate to get ther the help she needs.

The problem with that is, I'm not sure there is any such thing as a safe, healthy, therapeutic RTC out there.

Keep up the good fight!

Greene Bean

The worst government is the most moral. One composed of cynics
is often very tolerant and human. But when fanatics are on top,
there is no limit to oppression.

--H.L. Mencken

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Perrigaud

  • Posts: 361
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
SURVIVORS & Parents please read...What would you do?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2005, 03:51:00 AM »
Um well you can e-mail me or PM me. My e-mail is Perrigaud@hotmail.com
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nihilanthic

  • Posts: 3931
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
SURVIVORS & Parents please read...What would you do?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2005, 04:43:00 AM »
I'd say just get open with her and talk. It seems you have already. I'm just saying it for some parent who might stumble by my post and read it.

Just find out why she feels this way and why she wants to slip out instead of try to turn to those who love her. I'm sure youve tried, but you have to keep trying.

Also, just pull her out of school. She has more important things to worry about now than grades.

She seems very unstable and naturally you want her under observation and *REAL* care and *REAL* safety, but given the nature of the 'treatment industry' Its going to be really, really tough to find anything good.

If you do place her in some program or psych hospital stay in CONSTANT contact with her. Make the people who run the joint *SICK* of you. If they try to keep you out of contact with her, or listen in on phone calls or censor or dont let her say whatever the hell she wants about the place good or bad, pull her out. If she lies about abuse, well, listen to her but check out ofr yourself. Go and just be there a lot. Also, spend time alone with her.

The biggest safety issue with placement in a hospital or program is that theyre in the programs world and cut off from the outside. Dont let that happen. I helped make an article at http://www.askquestions.org/articles/teens - it should be helpful for assuring the safety of your kid.

But, I'd still put off on that kind of treatment. Look further into therapy and medication. It sounds like shes delusional, but I wont make that determination. Timoclea knows a lot more about mental health than I do.

As for your part, just keep her home and keep her with you, unless youre unable to keep her safe. STICK WITH THE THERAPY! (Again, for other parents, not you) Then, and if even a day program cant do so, find full time commitment at a SAFE program  whereyou are in CONSTANT contact with her (if they dont let you pull her immediately, and dont let them shove you around legally, get a lawyer on retainer) until shes stabilized on medication and with real therapy, and then bring her home at night. If she lies and says they abuse her, check with the internet, the CPS, the program, etc about it. Dont let them punish her for it. Shes suffering mental illness and delusion, and wants to die - think punishment is going to HELP that?

People should only be locked up as long as necessary and not a second more. I know you just want to help your kid and send them off to get helped but you cant send a kid away to get fixed like a car or a TV.

And now, I degress. Its all about how she feels inside. Its going to take personal inteaction with truely compassionate people, and professionals, and probably some serious medication to help out. Just... steer away from paxil. I know two people who've developed dependancy on it and are still in withdrawl TWO years later, or cant get off it at all, respectively.

I wish you the best of luck, and god bless. Shes struggling with pain and looked to idealization of death and other 'dark' things as her outlet. She's depressed and pessimistic. But, shes not "behaving badly" and dont let some program try to call her a bad kid or "punish her" or "beahviorially modify" her as such. Sure, they might totally tear her down back to a child and make her back into a stepford kid, but then shed have to deal with the EXTRA emotional scarring a few years down the road, PLUS this.

Its a sad state of affairs when you have to worry about treatment hurting the kid worse than whats already happened, but its just the way it is right now. All I can say is just to repeat- DO NOT let yourself be seperated from your daughter, DO NOT let people call her a liar or stop her from saying *ANYTHING* about the facility or whatever, to you or anyone else. Visit constantly and takl constantly. If the program has rules about contact, like the now-ubiquitious 3 month wait to call the parent - avoid it like the plague.

A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.
http://smack.accesscard.org/index/misc/atheist/' target='_new'>Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
SURVIVORS & Parents please read...What would you do?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2005, 05:33:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-04-12 00:51:00, Perrigaud wrote:

"Um well you can e-mail me or PM me. My e-mail is Perrigaud@hotmail.com"


I see Perriguad is trying to make some easy money by convincing these poor folk to send their children to WWASP's flagship gulag, Cross Creek Manor.

People, make no mistake about it-- ALL of WWASP's gulags are abusive, regardless of what WWASPies like Perriguad say.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
SURVIVORS & Parents please read...What would you do?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2005, 09:22:00 AM »
Ma'am, if you go to the website for the Children and Adolescent Bipolar Foundation (google CABF) they have parent testimonials to RTCs.  Look in the Community Center, Member Message boards, and then there's one for parent testimonials to RTCs.  If you decide you need one, look for one that *doesn't* have parents and survivors on Fornits complaining of abuse or fraud.  One that's been in business a long time, that the survivors' organizations have never heard of, that embraces a *medical* model of treatment for your teen, not a Behavior Modification model.

What you don't want to do is send your daughter to a Behavior Modification facility, as they often, in my opinion, have this "you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs" attitude towards people who suicide after leaving---and that's precisely what you're worried about with your daughter in the first place.

You might try another acute hospitalization or two first.

Your kid sounds like major depression with schizoaffective features.  You haven't mentioned mania, hypomania, or bipolar.

I'll talk in terms of parents of bipolar kids because the meds prescribed are somewhat different, but the problems parents face in the treatment process are the same.

All I can give for reference is that most parents of bipolar kids who are dangerous try half a dozen conventional hospitalizations before deciding to go with an RTC.  That's because for *most* mentally ill children, they get successfully stabilized along that route of hospitalizations and never need to go into an RTC.

Let me, briefly, explain what's going in in case none of the doctors explained to you:

There are a lot of effective meds for what your daughter has.  Some are effective for some people,  but not for others.  Different people have bad side effects on one drug, and few to none on another.

Unfortunately, the only way the doctor can find the right medication, or medication combination, and dosage for your daughter is trial and error.

They psychiatrists have a lot of medications to try, but they just have to keep trying one after another until they find out what works for each patient.

This is why even though your daughter was "put on medication" she isn't better yet.

The psychiatrists haven't found the right medicines yet to stabilize *her*.
-------------------------------------------

The *good* news is that once she is stable on medication, she has a very good chance of being just fine---like night and day.  Since she's mostly full grown, her meds may or may not increase or decrease with the seasons, depending on if she's sensitive to that, but other than that once she's stable she'll probably only have to see a psychiatrist once every 3 months to touch base and make sure she's still doing fine on what they call a "maintenance dose."

----------------------------------------------
Hospitalize her again if she's actively suicidal now, and see if they can get her stabilized. (Consult your doctor--I am not a doctor.)

Find out if there's a day hospitalization program in your area for when she gets out, because it may take more time to get her stabilized than they can do in the hospital.  What day hospitalization does is supervises her during the day since you can't.

Then you only need to supervise her at night.  Lock up the sharp knives or anything she might hurt herself with, make sure all upper story windows are locked shut, and use a key-only deadbolt on the doors out of the house.

You will *more than likely* be able to get her stable without going to an RTC.  It may take several more acute hospitalizations while they find the right meds for her.

Mental illness of a child is very painful for a parent to deal with.  You have my sympathy for what you're going through.

Please know that there is hope, and there is help, but you need to closely work with your child's psychiatrist right now to find the right medication(s), combination, and dosage(s) to specifically stabilize her.

Don't get sucked into a Behavior Modification facility that takes Juvenile Delinquents, because that could be really bad for your daughter and could make her worse.  (It's not just me who says so--the National Institutes of Mental Health, NIMH, issued a warning against BM facilities who put seriously mentally ill children right in along with juvenile delinquents.)

If you aren't sure about a facility, have a friend call them posing as the parent of a juvenile delinquent who is not mentally ill (make up appropriate behavioral problems) and see if the facility sounds like they want to take the fictitious juv. del. girl or not.  If they do, it's a red flag.  Anyplace that wants to limit your phone contact with you daughter is a red flag.  Any RTC that won't let you come visit your daughter just like you could if she was in the hospital is a red flag.

Best of luck.  If you want to talk to me further, you can send me private messages on Fornits under the name "Timoclea"

Timoclea, bipolar
mother to Katie, 9 year old, bipolar
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
SURVIVORS & Parents please read...What would you do?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2005, 11:26:00 AM »
Just a suggestion, it won't hurt to try. Your daughter may be similar to me in the respect that her problem may be of a "monthly" nature. You see, some girls/women have such a rollercoaster of hormone imbalance due to thier menstral cycle that it can last 1 or 2 weeks before her cycle and 1 or 2 weeks after, therefore affecting her life the whole month! Before you decide on any other course of action try visiting a very good gynocologist. See if it's possible that her cycle could be causing this. It may not be, you might be on the right path already - but what if this is the cause? One or two visits to a good gyno could make a difference.  Naturally, I recommend a woman gyn because they have a better understanding of what it's like to be female.
I hope you don't mind the suggestion, I know it's a bit different.
Good luck, and remember, every chance you have to encourage your daughter and tell her how proud you are of her for the GOOD things she does every day can make a world of difference.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
SURVIVORS & Parents please read...What would you do?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2005, 11:29:00 AM »
PS - I posted about the seeing the gyn. I am not discounting the trauma she's been through with the sexual abuse.  That's horrid. But it can wash away over the years with good therapy. My heart goes to her and your family.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
SURVIVORS & Parents please read...What would you do?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2005, 01:05:00 PM »
Contact your county mental health board and ask them what services they have to help parents work with high risk teens at home and prevent the need for outside, restricted placement.  Ask about wrap around services. Be persistent with them.  Find an advocate that can help you coordinate with her school.  She is protected by 504 and perhaps eligible for an IEP through IDEA.  Your child needs you.  Beware of making her more vulnerable to exploitation by placing her in a RTC where you are unable to monitor her treatment. Good luck to you and your beautiful daughter.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
SURVIVORS & Parents please read...What would you do?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2005, 01:19:00 PM »
Original Poster:

I am not saying this to call you out or make you feel bad.

But please look at the whole household situation for your daughter. What have things been like? If she is a very sensitive girl, she could at least in part be reacting to whatever the problems are with the people she is living with. I speak from personal experience. In a house of pain, I think the sensitive child reacts and takes on all the pain, expressing it by what she is doing.

Her bizarre ideas could be a reaction to or a way to escape from all of the stress at home. Whether the relationships around the house are noisy and confrontational, or stewing with unspoken painful history, teenagers often feel this stuff acutely. This will take a little passage through pretty uncomfortable stuff for you, too.

I only wish you the very best, and thank you for posting here and caring to ask about getting the right kind of assistance for your daughter.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Timoclea

  • Posts: 178
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
SURVIVORS & Parents please read...What would you do?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2005, 05:06:00 PM »
I know you mean well and I'm sorry, but no, wrong, and your recommendation is dangerous.

Psychotic symptoms such as delusions and hallucinations, in a child, are *NOT* "reactions to sadness"---they are very serious and should be treated very seriously.

Yes, of course if there are problems with the environment you want to improve the environment.

But most likely these parents are just ordinary people whose daughter got a bad role of the genetic dice to be vulnerable to mental illness and something triggered it---we have no idea what triggers these vulnerabilities, just that as far as the doctors can tell the parents of these children are a lot like any other parents.

Since when identical twins get it, the other twin is much more likely to come down with it but not 100% sure to, we know there's a genetic component *and* something to trigger it, but that something could literally be *anything* and is something, since nobody has even half a clue what it is, that the parents have no control over.

These are not bad parents.  This is not a bad child.  This is a child with a serious neurological disorder that usually responds well to treatment, but it takes a fair bit of trial and error to find the right one of the many available treatment options for any specific patient.

Do not hand out the false hope to these parents that if they somehow make their home life perfect their child will no longer be psychotic.

I know you mean well, but your comments are more likely to sink the parents in self doubt, even though you said you don't intend that.  And I believe you don't intend that.

Nevertheless, if you sink them in self-doubt and persuade them to avoid getting their child on appropriate antipsychotic medication, that would be a disaster for their family and their child.

It could be the difference between their child living and dying---and that isn't program-speak exaggeration.

Their kid needs a good pediatric psychiatrist to take another close look at the kid's medication right the hell now, preferably in a hospital setting.

I quote:

"Suicide is often an impulsive act: A child can be having a glass of milk in the kitchen one minute and leap from a bedroom window the next.  It happens that fast; it happens that unexpectedly.  The notion that people who threaten suicide never actually go through with it is a dangerous myth."

_The Bipolar Child_, page 265, by Demitri Papolos, M.D. and Janice Papolose, ISBN 0-7679-1285-3
(also authors of _Overcoming Depression_

---------------------------------------------

"Many people might ask: Who would expose their child to such a symptom profile? Well, it all goes back to risk/benefit.  The chances are that the movement disorders and TD may not appear, but certainly psychosis, severe rage, and mania are malignant for a child.  Psychosis untreated gravely imperils a child."

Same, page 108

-------------------------------------------

"Demitri Papolos, M.D., is an associate professor of psychiatry at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York City and the codirector of the Program in Behavioral Genetics.  He is the director of research of the Juvenile Bipolar Research Foundation, and is in private practice in New York City and Westport, Connecticut.  Janice Papolos is the author of three other books, all recognized as definitive in their fields, and is the editor of the highly respected 'The Bipolar Child Newsletter.'  The Papoloses are the authors of the classic text _Overcoming Depression_, now in its third edition.  They live in Westport, Connecticut.  Visit their website at http://www.bipolarchild.com"

Biographical notes on book jacket.

-------------------------------------------------

If this were my child, and she is still suicidal and/or experiencing delusions, voices or hallucinations, I would take her *immediately* to the emergency room, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

If she is not still suicidal or experiencing delusions, voices or hallucinations, I would call her psychiatrist (pdoc) and get a phone consult and talk to the pdoc *today* about the symptoms she has been having.

This is *not* something to take lightly, and it is *not* something to wait on.

Consult a qualified pdoc right now.

I am not a doctor, but I can tell you need one, and you need one now.

The only exception would be if you have seen her pdoc in the past week and the pdoc said it would take a bit for the symptoms to clear.

When my daughter was this unstable---and she wasn't even suicidal or psychotic, "just" manic---her pdoc was seeing her *weekly* to monitor how she was or wasn't adapting to her changes in medication.

Timoclea, bp for 22 years, stable on paxil, welbutriin, lamictal
mom to Katie, bp, 9 years old, stable on Abilify

BS in Psychology, Georgia Tech, 1990

Quote
On 2005-04-12 10:19:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Original Poster:



I am not saying this to call you out or make you feel bad.



But please look at the whole household situation for your daughter. What have things been like? If she is a very sensitive girl, she could at least in part be reacting to whatever the problems are with the people she is living with. I speak from personal experience. In a house of pain, I think the sensitive child reacts and takes on all the pain, expressing it by what she is doing.



Her bizarre ideas could be a reaction to or a way to escape from all of the stress at home. Whether the relationships around the house are noisy and confrontational, or stewing with unspoken painful history, teenagers often feel this stuff acutely. This will take a little passage through pretty uncomfortable stuff for you, too.



I only wish you the very best, and thank you for posting here and caring to ask about getting the right kind of assistance for your daughter.



"

Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? ... If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?
-- Patrick Henry

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
SURVIVORS & Parents please read...What would you do?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2005, 06:02:00 PM »
Timoclea, normally I like and respect your posts. However, neither of us know anything about this situation other than what the Original Poster posted. If the girl is indeed having psychotic and suicidal symptoms of course she should see a doctor. If the family is a mess, they should deal with it.

My experience is as worthy as yours. Just because your experience is inherited mental illness does not mean that is the only case. There are many cases of mental illness induced by abuse.

I for one highly doubt that this is a situation where it is just a girl's onset of mental illness and the rest of the scene is a-ok. At the very least there is the information about the sexual abuse, which is the source of at least some of the stress the girl has been hiding.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Timoclea

  • Posts: 178
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
SURVIVORS & Parents please read...What would you do?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2005, 09:48:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-12 15:02:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Timoclea, normally I like and respect your posts. However, neither of us know anything about this situation other than what the Original Poster posted. If the girl is indeed having psychotic and suicidal symptoms of course she should see a doctor. If the family is a mess, they should deal with it.



My experience is as worthy as yours. Just because your experience is inherited mental illness does not mean that is the only case. There are many cases of mental illness induced by abuse.



I for one highly doubt that this is a situation where it is just a girl's onset of mental illness and the rest of the scene is a-ok. At the very least there is the information about the sexual abuse, which is the source of at least some of the stress the girl has been hiding. "


I'm not talking about the worthiness of your experience.

It doesn't matter whether mental symptoms are induced by genetics, emotional trauma, or head injury, the right medications for the affected brain lobes help normalize the patient's brain.

You cannot stop a child from being psychotic and suicidal just by making the home not sad.

I *said* if the home life is bad, by all means fix it.

But after having this prey on the back of my mind all day, I felt like my first post was very remiss in not telling the parents that this was a situation for immediate medical attention---acute care if she's been hallucinating and feeling suicidal within the past couple of days, calling the pdoc (today) if the hallucinations and feeling suicidal were just since the last pdoc appointment.

Some things you wait before contacting a doctor.  Some things you don't.  Some things you go straight to the hospital.  This is one of those things you don't wait on---whether you go straight to the hospital or not.

You kinda implied that fixing anything wrong in the home would get her better---and from the symptoms the mother listed, the daughter needs medical attention right now.  Psychosis---which is what the delusions and hallucinations the mom mentioned is---doesn't just get better when you fix the environment.

Unless they've seen the doctor within the past week or haven't had these symptoms since they last saw the doctor, they need to call their doctor ASAP, bare minimum.

Now sometimes you expect to still have some problems while you're ramping up dosage slowly on a new medication, or it takes a certain amount of time for it to kick in, or you have to wean off one that didn't work and need to get it out of your system before you try the next thing.  And in that case the doctor may know the symptoms are there and be doing the next needed thing about it and you follow it and bite your nails and go ahead and put the kid through the medication change.

But if the doc doesn't know the girl is having these symptoms since the last appointment---you call.  If the kid is talking suicidally and doing the "I wish I was dead" or "I hate being alive" thing, you go to the emergency room.

Which would you rather, that they call the doctor and go to the ER when she would have made it through the night or that they *don't* go and she hurts herself or someone else?

It doesn't matter what triggered it---sexual abuse or whatever----what matters is that she is ill *now*.  Acute treatment of depression and psychotic symptoms is the same no matter how you got them.

Your experience is worthwhile and you're a good person and all that, and I'm sure you mean well.

Some of the things the mother listed are psychotic symptoms and it doesn't matter how they got there, what matters is that they *are* there.

The girl is suicidal *after* being released from the hospital and can't be counted on to tell the truth about what she is experiencing.  It doesn't matter how they got there, what matters is that they *are* there.

Your experience is worthwhile and valid and you're a nice person----but if you've never been psychotic or suicidal, or you don't have advanced degrees in treating people who are, or you haven't raised a child who is, then you aren't up to giving advice on this that doesn't do more harm than good.

The mother could have been exaggerating for all we know.  It could be some twelve year old with a warped sense of humor that typed that message for all we know.  But I don't believe either of those things.  I believe it *was* a mother of a teenage girl who was giving an accurate description of her daughter's history and symptoms, and from what she said the situation is critically serious and is NOT something to fuck around with.

Of course if she's still experiencing bad crap you stop the bad crap.

But you put the house fire out before you vacuum the living room.  Your advice in *this particular* case, even though you mean well and sound like someone I would like and respect, is the equivalent of telling this lady to vacuum the floor when she should be calling the fire department.

A lot of times I'm not a tactful person, but I've been thinking about this on and off all day and I am *scared* for this mother and her kid, okay?

I'm not trying to hurt you.  I'm trying to get her to get medical care for a problem where time is of the essence.

Please don't lets have this be about you and me.  I'm sure you're nice, and I'm sure you know a lot within the area of your experience, but unless you're a psychiatrist, you aren't competent to actually help this woman and *I'm not either*---but she needs one, and she needs one now.

Timoclea

say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile.
--Kurt Vonnegut, American author

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Timoclea

  • Posts: 178
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
SURVIVORS & Parents please read...What would you do?
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2005, 10:02:00 PM »
Oh, what the mother said about "she has convinced herself of some very bizarre beliefs and untruths."

That's a delusion.

The auditory hallucinations she had when she was hospitalized tells me she's had psychosis problems.

The persisting bizarre beliefs and untruths and that she doesn't realize they aren't so is what tells me she's still having psychotic symptoms.

Yeah, okay, delusions can take awhile to let go once you're stabilized.  But this girl is not stabilized, which makes the delusions much more worrisome.

She lies.  You don't know that she's not hearing voices right now telling her to kill herself or do something else---which could be anything.  You can't count on her to tell you if she's hearing things still or if they've stopped.  The delusions are all the parents have to go on.

The "bizarre beliefs" that she's "convinced herself" of is where what the mother is describing in everyday terms sounds like a delusion.

Yes, the parents need to protect this girl from further sexual abuse.

But first they need to get her stabilized.  She is not going to get raped or molested at the ER or the doctor's office.

Timoclea

In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people.
--James Madison, U.S. President

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
SURVIVORS & Parents please read...What would you do?
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2005, 11:56:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-12 10:19:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Original Poster:



I am not saying this to call you out or make you feel bad.



But please look at the whole household situation for your daughter. What have things been like? If she is a very sensitive girl, she could at least in part be reacting to whatever the problems are with the people she is living with. I speak from personal experience. In a house of pain, I think the sensitive child reacts and takes on all the pain, expressing it by what she is doing.



Her bizarre ideas could be a reaction to or a way to escape from all of the stress at home. Whether the relationships around the house are noisy and confrontational, or stewing with unspoken painful history, teenagers often feel this stuff acutely. This will take a little passage through pretty uncomfortable stuff for you, too.



I only wish you the very best, and thank you for posting here and caring to ask about getting the right kind of assistance for your daughter.



"


I stand by what I said. It was even tempered by "she could at least in part be reacting to..."

Sorry Timoclea, but you have a lot of nerve telling me what I said is wrong. I did not come along and discount what you said -- and possibly some of it is applicable to this person's situation, I never said it wasn't. I'm adding to the picture though. So leave my experience and whatever I have to say to this person alone.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »