ALA??

[Nihilanthic]

Healing does not mean she's going to go in with her head bowed down submissively to her parents. Healing would mean repairing the relationship. I dont think shed want one with her parents right now.

THEY fucked up, SHES doing just fine, she doesnt like them, (why would she if they abandoned her to a program and abdicated responsibility?) so if theres going to be any healing *THEY* have to be the ones to go at LEAST half way and apologize for their actions.

Also, yeah, you believe in a deity. Fine. So do I. It doesnt mean I believe in asinine fairytales and man-made religions. I also know when reality and rational thought and evidence contradict dogma, and this is one case of it.

Shes not rebelling from anything except your mentality. Also, you BELIEVING that she did something wrong and god will "draw her back" (But you dont want her to fail :lol:) is DELUSIONAL. D E L U S I O N A L. Look it up.

Shes done no wrong, the program is hogwash and her parents suck. Too bad your BELIEF structure isnt flexible enough to take into account that parents can and do fuck up and theyre not always right, and sometime the kid is.

Duct tape is like the force; it has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together.
--Jedi Knight school drop out.

[Deborah]

I'm not going to read the entire thread but here's just one example, which I and others, interpreted to be a pretty clear prediction of failure. You may interpret it completely differently.

"What is more, God knows that is the truth.
When the world starts to close in on you, remember Amanda, you have brought it upon yourself. God is not mocked. You will reap what you have sown. However, God has been merciful to you. The Lord has shown graciousness to you for the sake of your younger sister who loves you and misses you so much. God is patient. But, don't kid yourself. He will not allow you to continue down this path forever."

[Anonymous]

Obviously, no one has ever taken the time to explain what Christianity is REALLY about.  It is not about being perfect.  It is admiting you are not.  I know I fuck up!  ALL the time.  But because of what Christ did, we can be forgiven.  I don't have to keep paying pentance for all my "fuck ups"!  Thank heaven 'cause there ain't enough pentance.  I am sorry that the only Christianity you are familiar with is the judgemental, hell fire and brimstone type.  So, you think her parent's "fucked" up and she did nothing wrong ever?  Well, if her parents suck as much as you say, then they need lots of prayer and support.  As far as believing she did something wrong, we all make mistakes or bad choices. (yes, including her parents) From reading old posts, even the posters here that support her believe she has made some bad choices.  

I hope somewhere down the line someone will show you that not all Christians are hateful and judgemental.  My belief structure is extremely flexible.  It allows all kinds of fuck ups to be saved.  As a matter of fact, the only, one that will be in heaven that didn't live life on earth as a major league fuck up is Jesus.  

From what I have read of your posts, you have a tender heart for kids.  I think I would like you very much.  I promise, I am not throwing any stones here at you or Amanda.  I have no right.

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-11 17:20:00, Anonymous wrote:

 Obviously, no one has ever taken the time to explain what Christianity is REALLY about.

No, you're mistaken. I've met wonderful people full of goodness and light who profess Christianity. I just wouldn't characterize these people that way.

I don't know if Amanda is alright or not. I hope she is. I think her situation is quite similar to mine when I was her age; cloistered in a weird cult for most of my childhood then tossed out w/o any kind of support or any reasonable social or life skills to succeed. I wouldn't call that situation "alright".

But I made it alright. And here's wishing only the best for Amanda ::cheers::

I'd wish the best for all her kin and everyone else commenting on this, too, but let me make myself perfectly clear about that. I do NOT wish for you to get what you want. I don't want that to happen at all. I'd love to hear back from this kid some years from now and find that she made it through it all ok. That doesn't seem to be what you "christians" want at all. You want her to fall down and come crawling back so you can gloat about it and pretend that makes you right.

The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.
--Abraham Lincoln, U.S. President

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-11 16:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I read, but still don't see anyone wanting her to fail.  Just people wanting her to make good choices.  Throw God in and if she is one of His, then He will allow circumstances to draw her back.  I still don't see that as wanting her to fail.  Even one of your regular posters said something like that on the thread you connected me to.  I find it hard to believe ANYONE would want her to fail.  I guess you can tell I do believe in God.  I will pray for Amanda and her family.  I am sure they are all hurting and grieving over losses.  Hopefully, some day healing will happen for all those involved."

You come across that if Amanda had a nice job, a nice apartment, a nice boyfriend or husband, and sincere religious beliefs---that if they didn't match *your* religious beliefs you'd be sorry she was so happy because it kept God from "drawing her back."

Otherwise why would you still be calling an 18 year old young woman a "runaway"?

You don't have one good thing to say about Amanda.  Not one.

You may be good enough at lying to yourself to really believe you wish her well but you don't talk about her the way people talk about folks they have good wishes for.

If you had positive intentions towards her, you wouldn't be going out of your way to slander her by jumping into a conversation and warning someone off her, calling her a "runaway" as if she was sixteen and on the lam.

And it wasn't exactly accurate to call her "biased" against the program.  "Bias" is making up your mind ahead of time about people and things you don't know all that much about.  When you've experienced something yourself, you're entitled to have an opinion of it.  At that point, it's not a "bias"--it's your opinion based on your own personal experience of whatever it is.

I don't think I've ever seen someone go out of their way to say bad things about other people, putting them in the worst light possible to the point of inaccuracy, when they wished that person *well*.

If you think Amanda is such a screwup, why didn't you just stick to the whole truth and nothing but the truth?  It's not as dramatic to say that the lady (Paige) who adopted her brother pulled her out of ALA (granted against her parents' wishes) and then Amanda moved out from Paige's house a couple of months before she turned 18.  It's not as dramatic to say that Amanda didn't graduate the program and has a bad opinion of the program and point the man to people who like the program for him to get a range of impressions.

The truth wasn't "bad" enough for you so you exaggerated.

That's not how people treat other people that they wish well.

You can tell yourself you wish her well, and tell us you do, all day long---but your actions speak louder than your words.

I'm sure there are true bad things you could say about her.  There are true bad things people could say about me.  There are true bad things people can say about anybody.  But we only exaggerate the bad things people do when we have a certain degree of malice or acrimony in our hearts.

If you really wish Amanda well, then just quit talking about her.

Do you really think it was news to that man that Amanda didn't like ALA?  Duh.  You *could* have just provided contact info. for people with different opinions.  Talking about her the way you did was needless, malicious gossip.  It didn't do any good, it was exaggerated, and it was nasty.

Timoclea

[Anonymous]

I guess I don't understand.  You say you don't wish for her what I do?  I am hoping for her, it seems to me, the same thing you do.  That somewhere down the line, she is alright.  I personally don't know ANY Christians that would want her to come thru all this and not be all right.  So PLEASE don't lump me in with anyone that wants any harm to come to her.  As far as falling down, it is part of learning to walk.  The only way not to fall is to never try to stand.  I hope this child stands and falls until she learns to sprint!  Christianity is about perserverance and finishing well knowing that we will take detours and crash and burn...or fuck up...along the way.

[Anonymous]

And if you and the other anon are different people, I apologize, but it's hard to tell when people don't get a screen name.

The person I'm still talking to/about is the one that succumbed to the temptation to needlessly and cruelly gossip about Amanda when she *could* have just quietly made the positives of her case.

I'm flawed, you're flawed, she's flawed, her parents are flawed, we're all flawed.  Okay.  But it's cruel to use this girl giving her opinion about her own experiences as an excuse for malicious gossip.

If that wasn't you, then take it as directed at the other anon and please get a screen name so we can tell you apart.

Timoclea

[Anonymous]

Wow!  What was that?  I guess some other anon had some stuff to say, but, it wasn't me.  Sorry!  I don't know any of what you were talking about.  Sorry I must have stepped in something I didn't recognize.  Honestly, if life was grand for Amanda, I'd be happy.  I hope life is grand for all you guys!  I've never referred to her as a runaway.  Guess I shouldn't have posted.  Seems like this is a private conversation!  please accept my apology. Didn't mean to stir!

[Anonymous]

okay, thanks for the apology!  If I get a screen name, do I stay psuedo anonymous?  I am really new to all this form, computer, chat stuff.  I think it is really intersting, but I don't want a bunch of spam, viruses, weird e-mail...Afterall, I have browsed thru some of the other threads and there are some very unusuals out there!  Okay, don't get crazy!  I really am not judging them, I just think I am ready for contact from some of them!

[Anonymous]

oops, NOT ready for contact from them

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-11 17:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I guess I don't understand.  You say you don't wish for her what I do?  I am hoping for her, it seems to me, the same thing you do.  That somewhere down the line, she is alright.  I personally don't know ANY Christians that would want her to come thru all this and not be all right.  So PLEASE don't lump me in with anyone that wants any harm to come to her.  As far as falling down, it is part of learning to walk.  The only way not to fall is to never try to stand.  I hope this child stands and falls until she learns to sprint!  Christianity is about perserverance and finishing well knowing that we will take detours and crash and burn...or fuck up...along the way.  "

If you're not the same anon who started gossiping about her, then that's fine.

If you are, and you've had a change of heart, that's also fine---as long as you quit gossiping about her.

It doesn't serve any good for anyone.

It is entirely possible to defend ALA and acknowledge Amanda's got grounds to have formed an opinion, and then point to people who don't share it.

So if the anon gossipping wasn't you, fine.  If it was, please realize that was a fuck up on your part and okay, so you're human---just please stop.

Timoclea

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-11 18:07:00, Anonymous wrote:

"okay, thanks for the apology!  If I get a screen name, do I stay psuedo anonymous?  I am really new to all this form, computer, chat stuff.  I think it is really intersting, but I don't want a bunch of spam, viruses, weird e-mail...Afterall, I have browsed thru some of the other threads and there are some very unusuals out there!  Okay, don't get crazy!  I really am not judging them, I just think I am ready for contact from some of them!"

Then I'm truly sorry about the mistaken identity, you sounded like the same person.  To have any meaningful conversations with the anons, you kind of have to presume an anon in the same thread who sounds the same is the same.

If you get a screen name, it doesn't let anybody do anything but send you private messages *on Fornits*---see the little private messages indicator on the left---you don't even have to read them, ever, if you don't want to.

It doesn't let anyone see your email or anything like that, and doesn't even have to be a name that relates to anything---it's *solely* so people on Fornits can identify which posts in a thread come from you, and which from someone else---to prevent what just happened.

Timoclea

[Anonymous]

The first anon wasn't me.  How do I find out the rules or privacy agreements or whatever...about posting with a name so you won't get us confused?

[Anonymous]

okay, thanks, sorry we are typing at the same time.  I will look around the site and see if I can figure this out.

[Anonymous]

tried to register, but I don't think it wise to give my e-mail address to any forum board.  And it wouldn't let me without an email address and what is an ICQ number?  Sorry to be so illiterate!