ALA??

[Barton]

Dear Readers,

       I recently had a niece put in this academy.She is now into her next facilitated program.She is involved in Drugs,sex and Rebelion against her Mother and Father.They are very conservative Christian people. Fire and brimstone for the sinners of the world.

   After giving you people a little background check,can any one tell me any thing about this place she was in? The things she told me troubled me.The things I have read on this Forum about that place trouble me more than ever!

   I have made a few calls and inquired concerning the facilaty.I have recieved a few E-mails stating that they have terminated several of the scholls in mexico.Is this true? I have allso been talking with a young girl named AKA "viva" a past student.I would appriciate it if anyone could give me a heads up on what she is saying to be true!!
Thank you,
Barton

[Anonymous]

Nothing but good stuff for our family!

[Anonymous]

where is she?

[Anonymous]

If she's not at ALA any more, but some where else, shouldn't you be checking out the place she is currently?  Where is she now?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-08 23:56:00, Barton wrote:

"  

  Dear Readers,



       I recently had a niece put in this academy.She is now into her next facilitated program.She is involved in Drugs,sex and Rebelion against her Mother and Father.They are very conservative Christian people. Fire and brimstone for the sinners of the world.



   After giving you people a little background check,can any one tell me any thing about this place she was in? The things she told me troubled me.The things I have read on this Forum about that place trouble me more than ever!



   I have made a few calls and inquired concerning the facilaty.I have recieved a few E-mails stating that they have terminated several of the scholls in mexico.Is this true? I have allso been talking with a young girl named AKA "viva" a past student.I would appriciate it if anyone could give me a heads up on what she is saying to be true!!

Thank you,

Barton  "

ALA is a Christian based program for troubled teens.  Before you give much consideration to anything that "Viva" has to say, please know that "Viva" is a runaway who had all the same problems you describe your niece as having.  "Viva" was in ALA, but choose a life of rebellion instead of acknowledging her actions.

"Viva" herself is still in need of much help, although she will not admit it.

ALA is a safe place.  The people who run it really do care about the kids they are trying to help.  

The program no longer operates out of Mexico, that is true.  

While not a fire and brimstone person myself, I do believe that drugs are wrong, sex outside of marriage (to someone of the opposite sex) is immoral, and that rebellion against one's parents is wrong (the Bible does refere to rebelliousness as being as that of witchcraft).

If you want to help your niece, please show a united front and support her parents.  I am sure it was a very difficult decision for them to place her in a program.

However, just as with any problem, the first step to recovery is to be able to admit you have a problem and that you need help.  Her parents have done that.  Please support them in their efforts to get help for their daughter before it is too late.

"Viva" cannot give you answers to your questions, as she is biased against the program.  Her parents tried to get help for her, but other family members were not supportive and as a result, "Viva" has gotten mixed messages.  She truly needs prayers.

Your niece's parents are to be commended for taking this first step on the road to recovery from the problems that your niece's actions have created.  

God bless.

[Deborah]

Oh Dear, Church Lady is back.

Barton, you may want to read this thread to get a different perspective of this person's accusations about Viva:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#66033

[Nihilanthic]

Hrm...

Ever considered that how conservative they are might be why shes rebelling so much?

If you restrict someone too much they will fight to get away as hard as they can. Its not the natural state of a human being to be utterly controled and have dogma shoved in their head.

But hey, conservatives always think they ARE RIGHT and that if you dont agree you ARE WRONG. Plus their religion is playing into the whole mentality of their utter correctness.

When shes 18 she'll probably be fine. I can say that programs are guaranteed to be at best enforced boredom and captivity, and at worst torment and scarring for life.

Sex and rebellion as a teenager is normal, I'm sorry to say. You can believe in whatever you want but the fact is people are programmed to get a libido and want to be independant and not-controlled when adolescence starts. Its nature. Belief structures cant change REALITY, just YOUR reality.

And yeah, drugs? What kind of drugs? Booze and pot? OH NO! If it was harder shit and she was addicted, yeah, get greatment, but go through the proper means and order first. Ugh. Never just send to a program because your girl is growing up and you cant handle it. If she has a ACTUAL drug addiction problem seek treatment for that - out patient or a day program. Get therapy.

Programs are a UTTER, TOTAL last resort, and most of them arent even really helpful for anyone than the parents desire to have their teen be a kid.

Duct tape is like the force; it has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together.
--Jedi Knight school drop out.

[Anonymous]

Barton, in making your decision about ALA and whether or not to be influenced by the rantings of hostile individuals, please take the following into consideration:

Proverbs 1:7, 10, 15,  22, 30, 31, 32
Proverbs 3: 7, 11
Proverbs 4:19, 24
Proverbs 5:23
Proverbs 9:10
Proverbs 10:23, 32
Proverbs 11:21

And, my favorite as it applies to those who have jumped on Viva's band wagon,
Proverbs 12:1  "Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid."

Only the Lord's opinions, reflected throughout the Bible, are what matters.  Not my opinions, and not any of you who are so hostile toward anyone who thinks differently than you do.

Barton, you will have to determine for yourself.  A clue to the matter is, however, do you believe it is right to rebel against authority or do you believe that you are to submit to authority?  The Bible has a lot to say about that as well.

The bad things happening in our country are in no small part a result of people rebelling against authority.  And that starts in the home, with children rebelling against their parents.  There is a whole group of individuals here who would have you believe that it is ok to rebel.  It is not.  The jail systems are full of people who have rebelled against authority.

What is worse than the child rebelling, is the adults who encourage the rebelling and tell the child that it is ok.  Those of you who have done this will answer to the Lord.  Not to me. Not to each other.  To the Lord.  

However, if those of you with the bad attitudes and rebellious spirits would like for me to refrain from expressing my opinions, then, stop with the negative stuff about the school.  Just because it is not the choice you would have made, does not mean it is not correct for someone else.

There seems to be a lot of double standards.  It is ok for you all to express your opinions, yet you don't like it when someone else does.

[Timoclea]

On 2005-04-08 23:56:00, Barton wrote:

"  

  Dear Readers,



       I recently had a niece put in this academy.She is now into her next facilitated program.She is involved in Drugs,sex and Rebelion against her Mother and Father.They are very conservative Christian people. Fire and brimstone for the sinners of the world.



   After giving you people a little background check,can any one tell me any thing about this place she was in? The things she told me troubled me.The things I have read on this Forum about that place trouble me more than ever!



   I have made a few calls and inquired concerning the facilaty.I have recieved a few E-mails stating that they have terminated several of the scholls in mexico.Is this true? I have allso been talking with a young girl named AKA "viva" a past student.I would appriciate it if anyone could give me a heads up on what she is saying to be true!!

Thank you,

Barton  "

Viva is being slandered by the other poster.  This "runaway" is 18 years old and has simply moved out, rented her own place, gotten a job, and is pursuing school.

If she's a bit wild, it's an understandable rebound after what she went through, which would unsettle anyone.

She's 18.  If she wants to cut loose for a bit, it ain't nobody's business if she does.

If *I* had been through what she's been through *I* certainly would be using my newfound majority to thumb my nose at the idiots who had had me shipped to Mexico and incarcerated me in a private prison run by jesus freaks.

Genuine people of faith get a tremendous amount of my respect, no matter the religion or sect.  The people at ALA are, in my opinion, more than a bit over the edge from "sincere" into downright weird.

I base this on the rantings posted on Fornits by Craig of ALA, who was the head honcho running the place.  You can't diagnose over the internet, and I'm not saying he necessarily *is*---but he *sounded* way past eccentric and flat out into delusional city.  Not in the 'burbs of the metro area, but right downtown across from city hall.

Maybe he isn't.  Maybe he lost it and wasn't being himself.  Maybe his rantings weren't representative of who he really is.  I don't know if you can search Fornits on the screen name "Word of Wisdom," but that was him.

His apparent loopiness is why I believe Viva.  I've also talked to Viva's grandmother.  Viva may not be a perfect little angel, but she's not a lot more screwed up than I was at 18, and I turned out a responsible, married for ten years, been living in our own house--same one--for six years, mom of a 9 year old daughter, published author, middle-aged suburban "soccer mom" housewife.

I'm not perfect, and I've got my problems, but I get by in life.

I don't think it's quite fair to judge an 18 year old who's had as much turmoil in her life as Viva has (a fair bit of the story has come out on Fornits now and again) by the standards of those of us who are in our thirties or forties and have settled in as frumpy, stodgy, happy, old marrieds.

If I wasn't as discombobulated as Viva at 18--and in many ways I was more confused and wild and dangerous, I was just good at hiding it---I *also* hadn't been uprooted out of high school and shipped out of the country and spent way too long among some people who seem to me to be really, really bizarre, and then had to be rescued by my grandmother.

Yes, she left her grandmother's house and moved out slightly before--coupla months--her 18th birthday.  Big fat hairy deal.

Viva is a nice young lady who is recovering from a very bad experience in an entirely normal and typical way.  When she gets a little more time between her and what happened to her, she's probably going to be fine.

But the jesus freaks will never admit she's fine because she won't be a jesus freak clone of them.  They'll always see her as a "rebellious runaway" no matter how old she gets because that's how they are.  Or at least, that's my perception from what I've seen of them---and we have, unfortunately, seen the various anti-Viva jesus freaks posting quite a lot over the time since she got sent away.

Timoclea

...it is worth discussing radical changes, not in the expectation that they will be adopted promptly but for two other reasons. One is to construct an ideal goal, so that incremental changes can be judged by whether they move the institutional structure toward or away from that ideal. The other reason is very different. It is so that if a crisis requiring or facilitating radical change does arise, alternatives will be available that have been carefully developed and fully explored."

http://laissezfairebooks.com/index.cfm?eid=103&aid=10247' target='_new'>Milton Friedman

[Timoclea]

On 2005-04-10 18:33:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Barton, in making your decision about ALA and whether or not to be influenced by the rantings of hostile individuals, please take the following into consideration:



Proverbs 1:7, 10, 15,  22, 30, 31, 32

Proverbs 3: 7, 11

Proverbs 4:19, 24

Proverbs 5:23

Proverbs 9:10

Proverbs 10:23, 32

Proverbs 11:21



And, my favorite as it applies to those who have jumped on Viva's band wagon,

Proverbs 12:1  "Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid."



Only the Lord's opinions, reflected throughout the Bible, are what matters.  Not my opinions, and not any of you who are so hostile toward anyone who thinks differently than you do.



Barton, you will have to determine for yourself.  A clue to the matter is, however, do you believe it is right to rebel against authority or do you believe that you are to submit to authority?  The Bible has a lot to say about that as well.



The bad things happening in our country are in no small part a result of people rebelling against authority.  And that starts in the home, with children rebelling against their parents.  There is a whole group of individuals here who would have you believe that it is ok to rebel.  It is not.  The jail systems are full of people who have rebelled against authority.



What is worse than the child rebelling, is the adults who encourage the rebelling and tell the child that it is ok.  Those of you who have done this will answer to the Lord.  Not to me. Not to each other.  To the Lord.  



However, if those of you with the bad attitudes and rebellious spirits would like for me to refrain from expressing my opinions, then, stop with the negative stuff about the school.  Just because it is not the choice you would have made, does not mean it is not correct for someone else.



There seems to be a lot of double standards.  It is ok for you all to express your opinions, yet you don't like it when someone else does.







"

Okay, perfect case in point about these people being freaky delusional idiots.

Viva is 18 years old, but this woman (tone of writing sounds female, anyway) is intent on describing her as a rebellious child.

This woman is so detached from reality that she can't even admit that Viva is 18 years old and legally an adult and is *not* rebelling against the jesus freak woman's authority because She Has None.

The only authority with a legitimate claim on Viva is the same laws of the land that you and I have to follow.

I wish the woman would take a handle, because even if the descriptor I'm using *is* descriptive of her (as it so obviously is), I hate to get the backs up of real Christians by seeming to disrespect their faith.  My father's a Church of Christ preacher, and my husband's uncle is a Presbyterian minister.  You know, people say Church of Christ is "out there" and I admit that its beliefs are sometimes on the unusual side with respect to the various denominations of Christianity, but they're pikers compared to these people.

But this woman is a perfect example of what I was talking about.  She is, figuratively, moved right in with Craig in the condo across from City Hall in Delusion City.  Or, well, I don't mean to imply them shacking up or anything---maybe it's better to describe her as his next door neighbor?  She comes across as just plain loopy to me.

If an 18 year old isn't an adult with authority over her own life, what's jesus freak lady's deal?  Are women chattel to her with lifelong obedience obligations to someone or other?  Or are offspring supposed to be in lifelong thrall to their parents wishes and whims even after they're grown?  Or does she just have some personally-selected age of majority locked away in her head unbeknownst to the rest of us?  Or is *anyone* no matter what age who doesn't agree with *her* religion a "rebellious child"?  Or is the woman just flat delusional to the point that she doesn't *realize* Viva is 18 years old?

Whatever, she's *weird*.

Timoclea

As a rule, children love their parents, believe what they teach, and take great pride in saying that the religion of mother is good enough for them.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer

[Timoclea]

On 2005-04-08 23:56:00, Barton wrote:

"  

  Dear Readers,



       I recently had a niece put in this academy.She is now into her next facilitated program.She is involved in Drugs,sex and Rebelion against her Mother and Father.They are very conservative Christian people. Fire and brimstone for the sinners of the world.



   After giving you people a little background check,can any one tell me any thing about this place she was in? The things she told me troubled me.The things I have read on this Forum about that place trouble me more than ever!



   I have made a few calls and inquired concerning the facilaty.I have recieved a few E-mails stating that they have terminated several of the scholls in mexico.Is this true? I have allso been talking with a young girl named AKA "viva" a past student.I would appriciate it if anyone could give me a heads up on what she is saying to be true!!

Thank you,

Barton  "

Barton--I can't give you the lowdown on ALA except to tell you to look at its advocates and how bizarre they are.  *My* parents are very conservative Christians.  Church of Christ basically believes they aren't a denomination, they're "The Church"--the whole thing---and that pretty much everybody else is going to Hell.

But while my parents are very sincerely faithful people, they don't go around praying out loud in public like Pharisees--which is basically how the ALA types come across to me.  There's a difference between letting your light shine and making a big show of your faith to be seen by men.

Now that I think about it, the Pharisees are the perfect metaphor for the ALA people.  They're real big on telling you what *other* people are doing wrong, they're very ostentatious about how pious they are, they're very proud of being "not like that publican over there," they're very interested in what's in their neighbor's eye while being awfully quiet about what's in their own.  Somehow, I don't think Jesus would have liked the ALA people very much.

Can you picture the lady with all the quotes sitting in her bedroom quietly praying, "Lord, be merciful to me, a sinner."  Can you picture that?  And picture her meaning it? Because I sure can't.

Every real Christian I know wouldn't mouth pious platitudes about Viva, but would say, "Well, she's grown now, and I can't know her heart.  I hope she winds up okay." and would let it go.

The term "whited sepulchre" comes to mind.

Timoclea

I swear by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=AR5564&aid=10247' target='_new'>* - ~ Galt's Creed ~ - *

[Anonymous]

she's not 18!

[Nihilanthic]

Yanno, now that everyone's mouthed their polite piece, its my turn. :grin:

That jesus freak woman gives a bad name to christians and delusion is the word of the day, 100%. Shes spewing scripture and clinging to her faith like a monkey to a tree in a windstorm of reality.

The bottom line is she was put in a bullshit program for bullshit reasons by bullshit parents. And this new church lady is bullshitting everyone here by thinking that this girl needs to go back to mum after 1. ABANDONING HER 2. treating her like shit by doing so... aaaand 3. the girl's obviously gotten out and is doing A-OKAY on her own. There is no need WHATSOEVER for her to go back to that absolutely dispicable mother of hers except for the sensibilities of that DELUDED churchlady who obviously is as clingy to her own kids.

I desperately hope her own kids manage to run away before they get put into Craig's little Davidian compound, or lie low until 18 and scram.

Yeah thats right, I said that to you, you fucking bitch. Go jump off a cliff and get closer to that god you believe in so he can tell you how much shit you're full of. You're blatantly too far gone to be deprogrammed by any reasonable means (like a discussion) so as far as I care you can go fuck yourself with a big hard cross! (no offence to reasonable Christians or any minors who stumbled on this post!)

That program is bullshit, and I'd argue ANY program that requires holding the child incommunicado and captive is bullshit, Craig is full of it, any program that forces religious dogma into the children is bullshit, and so are you! You seriously need a new outlet for your SELFISH, psychotic maternal instincts than trying to bible-thump Amanda back to her parents after the fuck-over they tried to give her with that fuck Craig in ALA.

Shes doing FINE on her own? WHY would she need to go back? Dont give me more scripture, give me a fucking answer! Programs are for kids who need help, she doesnt need any. She shouldnt go back to her parents unless she WANTS to, and I dont see why the hell she would after the stunt they pulled!

Also, to anyone else who saw me just vent on this woman - sorry. But hopefully I've scared her off the forum so she wont bug us anymore.

P.S. - http://www.divine-interventions.com/index2.php <- jackhammer jesus would be just *PERFECT* for this lady to 'feel the lord' :grin:

"...In general, it's just an overall sign in America that there doesn't seem to be as much respect for authority figures, and that's a bad trend. It just strikes me that people can say whatever they want to and get away with it, and that's not good."

--But David Murrell, exec. dir. of the Florida Police Benevolent Association

[Anonymous]

I'm typing anonymously because I don't have a lot of time for forums..well, more like I completely forget about forums and then I come back and feel bad for wasting their time.

Anyways about this thing. I went to a center myself but was never abused, I suppose I was really lucky. However, we had this one particular staff member who was fairly religious. She wasn't too bad at first, but eventually she tried to force these things on us. I was reading a book about buddhism and she said it's interesting but total fiction. I told her that I felt that way about the bible...and got sent to my room for 2 hours. Talk about unfair.

Anyways, I find that organized religion, christian ones in particular (especially catholic) are a form of mind control. The ones who just have faith and pray aren't so bad, they just want to believe in something.
Then you get into people trying to force you into it and them being highly evil.

So many things reflect the total mind-control poison that the church really is. Everyone mourned over the pope, but what people failed to ever mention was that he announced that birth control is a sin and other such dubious thoughts. The church has been the source of a lot of history's darkest periods. The crusades is a pretty good example. I'm sure that new movie, "Kingdom of Heaven" will make it look like the people the English were slaughtering were evil and deserving...when it's the complete opposite. Many of the people murdered during the crusades were *not* evil, they just didn't hold the same level of faith, or any faith at all.
What about all those child molestation scandals that are surfacing more and more? If a priest can do something as horrible as that, I don't think people should be blindly following these people.
A more recent thing was a movie called "Volcanoes of the Deep", an Imax film, is not being shown in the southern united states. Why? Because it mentions evolution. There hasn't been complaints but these science centers and theatres won't show it because they are afraid of major backlash..which is a total shame on the scientific community.

Anyways, these fundamentalist christians are starting to drive me crazy. With Bush in power they seem to have quite a bit more power and voice than before. I live in *canada* and I still get affected by this stuff.
What I've always found ironic is that many people preach the teachings of the bible, while totalling violating it. There is a group in the USA called "God Hates Fags", horrible isn't it? Doesn't the bible say something about oh...Not judging one's fellow man? Isn't doing so a *sin*? Even if it's not a hellworthy sin, it's still pretty terrible.

I'm also sick of the religious community imposing on absolutely everything. Abortion is a big issue with them. Personally, I think someone should be able to have the choice, not every woman gets pregnant by fault of hers (rape anyone?). Saying abortion is a sin because you're "killing babies" is total BS. Many would disagree but a foetus is not exactly a living, sentient being until well into the pregnancy. The heartbeat starts at 20 weeks or so, but that doesn't exactly mean it's alive. Besides, if one of these nuts was raped and was impregnated..would they REALLY want to have that child? It would constantly remind them of what happened and the child would suffer the consequences.

Also religious people tend to be all about "The children". I agree that children are important and a great asset, but I don't agree with what these people talk about. They restrict their kids from seeing anything violent or sexual, even VAGUELY violent and/or sexual for fear of making them crazy or something.
Movies, games, books, etc do not make someone into a psychopathic killer. The way they are treated, interact and live their lives influences them. There have been countless cases of highly religious people completely abusing their children, heck, some of them have *murdered* their children.
I saw violent movies when I was young, I'm not crazy. I saw porn at 14, I'm not sexually deviant or anything.
Also I've noticed that the school system in the USA is particularily horrible. Ours isn't that great, but I know for a fact they are at least 5x better. Why not put more money into the education of our youth instead of censorship?

I find that because of the political voice these people now have (with the president and a large amount of the government being republican and a lot of those being religious), a great many things are encroaching on the freedom and even the constitution. What I find most disgusting is not the fact that it's happening, it's the fact that most people sit around and *let* it happen. Most of the reasons for these things are paper thin and could be defeated in a debate in 5 minutes. Yet precious few are doing a *thing* about it.

Censoring everything and restricting things fly right in the face of freedom of speech. It seems like you have freedom of speech unless you say something you can't say.

I'm a third-party observer. I live in Canada. On the day of the pope's death the news spoke to the former prime minister and he spoke about him, he also said (very sternly) that he never, ever, mixed religion into his politics. There was also commentary from those who found the pope to be good and those who found him to be bad. I find on american TV, it's always the right wing. "Debates" would frequently be held by a right-winger and a further right-winger. Any left wingers on these programs would be ignored, bashed, interrupted, mocked, etc. I've found it to be absolutely offensive when a news host starts talking *down* to a liberal. Here's a fictional example. "I think that abortion should be left up to the woman." "Oh yeah? Well what about the fact that it's a human being's life?" and usually the left winger would sound somewhat shocked but still retort. I hate it when journalists can't be impartial.
The only good news program I can think of is "Anderson Cooper 360", they do not take sides, they merely report. Shouldn't that be what ALL news be like? Someone apart from the news voicing their opinion is alright, but the news itself voicing it's opinion is downright biased and unfair.

Anyways, sorry about the long and somewhat off-topic rant (here and there). I just wanted to share with you have bad I think religion has gotten and how it really needs to be stopped. I don't mean the church should be taken away, they should just have their *power* taken away. The vatican is much too powerful and influential for it's own good and the government needs to leave out the religion. I'm hoping for all of our sakes, that when a new president is elected, he/she isn't a religious nutbag. I'm also hoping that the next one will focus on *THEIR COUNTRY* instead of everybody else's.  

~Cidsa

[Anonymous]

I wanted to add that I know it wasn't *just* England, but they were a pretty big part of it. It was a lot of Europe and as Nihilantic says, an alternative to fighting each other.
The injustice was that it was all for religion and the people they slaughtered were "heretics"..AKA Muslims. Sound like anything familiar, hm?
Honestly though, this is the same damn thing as the Muslim Jiihad. They want to crush the heretics and infidels. However, most people think they are just crazy terrorists who do this just to hurt them. Yes it is to hurt them, but there is an actual reason and a lot of this hatred stems WAY back.

Also, I hope to god that woman's kids get the fuck away from her. I bet she'd put them in there just to spite us or something.

I wasn't treated that well by my mother either during my teen years and I was put into a center, when it was really home (mainly stepdad) issues that was causing the problems.
I left at 17 and will never move back there. I don't need to run back to my mommy and I certainly hold no commitment to her. Yeah, she's my mother, but that doesn't mean I have to take her fucking bullshit.

If you didn't notice saying these things are a BAD thing, it says so in your goddamn bible. Go back and read that thing. Also if you didn't notice, the bible is CHOCK FULL of massive amounts of violence, sex, incest, death, war, etc. If everything these days should be censored and kept from kids, the bible should've been the first one to go.
How many people get perverted fantasies and act upon them after reading the bible? Not too many. But there have been quite a few nuts who kill people because god "told them to". Say they are psychotic all you want, besides the murder you are doing the exact same thing.

I agree. This girl is doing absolutely fine on her own. She's living, working, eating, etc. Why the fuck should she go back to a broken home where she was abandoned and sent to hell?
Would YOU fucking go back? I really fucking doubt it.