Did Pete Moore really fuck his Sister?

[Chief Kruglik]

Me suh see no harm in fucking Sister. Me suh praised Pete for his honesty and courage.

[yearight]

Alright, so you start off making fun of Pete and then move on to Maren. These were people I lived with. How about you cowards post your names so we can expose your issues to the world?

I knew both Pete and Maren, both with some fucked up shit in their lives, and both having made improvements. Oh wait, isn't that why we're talking on this board? I'm pretty sure if you are not and have never been fucked up, you don't belong here.

Hell, I remember my first semi-normal conversation at Elan. After the 4 guys who picked me up to take all my crap and watch me shower were done, I went and sat in the dining room and started talking to some kid with no laces in his shoes. His name was Shane. He told me about some truly fucked up stuff he'd done before he got there. I was freaked out.

If you went to Elan and believe you aren't currently and never were fucked up, i'll have some of whatever you're smokin'.

Dave

[Antigen]

You mean all those foster kids sent by the state of Illinois were all fucked up? Please!

I must say, though, that as program vets go, as a group, Elanians seem to be about the most bent people I know of. WTF happened to you people after intake?

We get crushed in the first three, four years of school...We're trained to become parrots. We're trained to learn information and give it back at test time.  But we're not taught to think. We're not taught how to access genius.
--Victor Villasenor, author of Burro Genius (2004)

[Anonymous]

I went to Elan, currently live a normal life and was pretty normal as a teenager, just had issues with my parents, who have since seen shrinks and worked their heads out.
I did my minimal time in Elan and left, no dent in my life.

so theres a hole in your theory.
sorry.

[Anonymous]

I have to say, alot of these people do seem crazy though.
(I am the person who posted above about being a well adjusted person who had issues with parents who ended up needing shrinks...)


I just look at this page out of boredom.
Maybe I am one of a minority in that I really was a pretty normal kid and am a pretty normal adult.

[Antigen]

Right, Art. I don't know why you'd take exception to that statement, except of course that you're rather bent. Big deal. So am I in my ways. I too thought we'd pretty well established that. Now can we take one baby step past that and talk about why?

WTF happened to you ppl after intake? Why do the Elan ppl seem so much more damaged than some others.

Not all, Anon. Not you personally. I don't even know you. But on average, as a group, Elanians certainly seem to be a bit more tweaked than even most other Program vets. I'd like to understand why? What's different about Elan?

Legalizing drugs is far from a panacea for all the distress caused by drugs, but it will eliminate most of the profit and corruption from the drug trade.

--Nobel laureate, Gary S. Becker

[ShyGirl]

Why the attack on Ginger?
What she?s saying makes a lot of sense.  Look in the other forums.  Only in this one are people spewing such hatred.  It?s like people get off on hurting each other.  I wish I could answer Ginger?s question about why Elan.  But I can?t because Elan is the only program I was in contact with, so I can?t compare it to other programs.  I do know that it was very difficult to have a real friend in Elan because you could not trust anyone.  Everyone was always writing you up for something, especially your ?friends.?  Also, everyone was always yelling at you or spitting in your face.  Elan used the students to make each other feel like crap. Is that why we all hate each other?  
I too would like to explore this topic further.  Any other ideas?

[Antigen]

Yeah, rampant snitch culture, brainwashing, violence and injury and all the rest. None of that is any different from the other Synanon based programs. And there certainly is some venom among those other program vets. But Elan takes the cake.

When I first found out about Elan, I dropped a link to Bingo. I thought it was so similar to Seed/Straight indoctrination and seemed to fit what ppl were saying about Elan, I thought it would be a nice entre to discussion about the similarities and differences among the programs. Instead, things blew the fuck up! I got accused of trying to out one of the ppl involved in that production for their affiliation w/ Elan (which I didn't even know about to begin with) and all kinds of war broke out.

But no one ever has been interested in discussing those comparisons. And, of course, we can't compare AA to other 12-step cults, either. Well, some of us can. But Artie will dedicate himself to trolling those threads till we all get tired of trying to ignore him.

So... what is the difference? You can make comparisons based on discussion w/ vets from other programs. This place is just lousey w/ them and there's plenty of detailed info about them. For example, check out Ryan Pink on Tranquility Bay.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=9424&forum=9

I turned to speak to God, About the world's despair; But to make bad matters worse, I found God wasn't there.
--Robert Frost, American poet

[Antigen]

Ok, how about now? Look over some of the detailed descriptions of life in other TC's and give us all your thoughts. I already know how you feel about me. That's old news. How does Elan compare to other TCs? Any thoughts?

I wasn't raised Catholic, but I used to go to Mass with my friends, and I viewed the whole business as a lot of very enthralling hocus-pocus. There's a guy hanging upon the wall in the church, nailed to a cross and dripping blood, and everybody's blaming themselves for that man's torment, but I said to myself, 'Forget it. I had no hand in that evil. I have no original sin. Theres no blood of any sacred martyr an my hands. I pass on all of this.'
--Billy Joel, American musician

[Anonymous]

Ummm...Howcome I came out alright?HOw come I think that Elan was funny, annoying and retarded?
Because I AM NORMAL.
If any of you are still thinking about this place, the issue is not Elan, lol.IT'S YOU.
Ya, Elan was lame, But I got out in under 18 months....never got shitdown and WENT ON WITH MY LIFE.
Jesus, working at home has left me too much time to look at this dumb board. You people need help.

[Anonymous]

OH MY FUCKING GOD ART SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY SHUT UP ART SHUT UP! YOU ISERABLE OLD SAD OLD SAD SAD OLD MAN! GROW THE FUCK UP SHUT UP DO YOU HAVE ONE FRIEND? I picture you living in i basement somewhere with your computer and a bare lightbulb hanging over yer head and a picture of Marty and Jeff on a dert board with holes bored through their eyes and death to elan written all over your walls, building bombs and other contraptions trying to plot out a way to blow up poland or something. I bet you never shower or shave. And you probably dont wash any dishes and havent been on a date in years. You are obsessive compulsive over a fucking boarding school you went to as a teenager. I come here maybe 4 times a year and HERE YOU ARE. YOU NEVER CHANGE You are fucking lame. ALways bitching. AND ABOUT THE SAME FUCKING THINGS! you make no progress. You make new enemies daily. What an angry bitter lonely sad old man you are. Keep lying to yourself. Youare the only person who believes you arent clinically insane. YOU ARE NUTS! And everyone knows it. Defend yourself all you want. You are absolutly CRRRRRRRRRAZY! Are you gonna still be crying in front of your computer with your long green smelly toenails over elan 10 years from now? Are you gonna die in front of your computer screen with Fornits pulled up on the screen and dry tears on the keyboard? Go take a walk. Look at some birds, smell some flowers, go to the beach. Enjoy life. You misereable sack of whiney pathetic shit. You are better off dead if this is how you chose to live. You fucking bore the shit out of everyone, and your posts and soooooooooooooooo redundant.I can speak for everyone SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU SACK OF VOMIT SPEW!

[Anonymous]

OH MY FUCKING GOD ART SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY SHUT UP ART SHUT UP! Right on! YOU ISERABLE OLD SAD OLD SAD SAD OLD MAN! Right on! GROW THE FUCK UP SHUT UP DO YOU HAVE ONE FRIEND? ah' picture ya' livin' in ah' basement somewhere wid yo' clunker and some bare lightbulb hangin' upside ya' haid and some picture uh Marty and Jeff on some dert bo'd wid holes bo'ed drough deir eyes and dead t'elan written all upside yo' walls, buildin' bombs and oda' contrapshuns tryin' t'plot out some way t'blow down poland o' sump'n. ah' bet ya' neva' showa' o' shave. And ya' probably dont wuzh any dishes and gotsnt been on some date in years. You's is obsessive compulsive upside a fuckin' bo'din' farm ya' went t'as some teenager. Ah be baaad... ah' come here maybe 4 times some year and HERE YOU ARE. YOU NEVER CHANGE You's is fuckin' lame. ALways bitchin'. AND ABOUT THE SAME FUCKING THINGS! Right on! ya' make no progress. You's make new enemies daily. Slap mah fro! Whut an angry bitta' lonely sad old joker ya' are. Keep lyin' t'yo'self. You'sare da damn only sucka' who recon's ya' arent clinically insane. YOU ARE NUTS! Right on! And everyone knows it. Man! Defend yo'self all ya' wants'. You's is absolutly CRRRRRRRRRAZY! Right on! Is you gonna still be cryin' in front uh yo' clunker wid yo' long green smelly toenails upside elan 10 years fum now? Is you gonna kick d' cud in front uh yo' clunker screen wid Fo'nits pulled down on de screen and dry tears on de keybo'd? Go snatch some walk. Ya' know? Look at some birds, smell some flowers, go t'de beach. Lop some boogie. Enjoy life. You's misereable sack uh whiney alleyetic shit. Man! You's is betta' off wasted if dis be how ya' chose t'live. You's fuckin' bo'e da damn shit out uh everyone, and yo' posts and soooooooooooooooo redundant. Man!I kin rap fo' everyone SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU SACK OF VOMIT SPEW! Right on!

[Antigen]

On 2005-07-05 14:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Ummm...Howcome I came out alright?HOw come I think that Elan was funny, annoying and retarded?

Because I AM NORMAL.

If any of you are still thinking about this place, the issue is not Elan, lol.IT'S YOU.

Ya, Elan was lame, But I got out in under 18 months....never got shitdown and WENT ON WITH MY LIFE.

Jesus, working at home has left me too much time to look at this dumb board. You people need help."

What's normal? And what's normal got to do with it? I'm relatively normal too. But an awful lot of ppl who have been through TCs as a teenagers seem to have been quite damaged by the experience. Being that TC has become the default standard practice for everything from eating disorders to addiction to GAS (generalized asshole syntrome), I'd like to know why? I'm just curious that way.

I don't believe in God. My god is patriotism. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
--Andrew Carnegie, Scottish-born American industrialist and philanthropist

[Anonymous]

Ill tell you why.
The rich parents have money to burn.
Rich spoiled parents do not like to have to deal with anything that the babysitter, housekeeper or driver will not.
They have money to burn, so when their child starts acting like, well, a TEENAGER, they hear about this place or another on which to put the burden of a growing possibly angsty but normal teenager onto somebody else.
I do understand the unfairness, however, to those placed here by "The System".
Lots of kids get lost in the system, be it at Elan or otehrwise.
It's those kids that end up messed up...along the line they endure neglect, abuse and all the psycholiogical synptoms of such.
The rich bratty kids are, well rich bratty kids with rich bratty parents.
They got out and pretty much ended up in great colleges, got great jobs and lead the sort of lives to which they were accustomed, lol and when THEIR kid starts acting like, well, a TEENAGER, they might do the same thing their parents did.
A place like Elan, although silly, won't kill anyone.If anything, it will give them funny stories to tell, that's about the extent of the damage on the 'normal' kids.

The poorer kids, well if they complain, they have the right.
Their lives were REALLY in other people's hands, and that sucks.
Parents who could not afford to keep them, or worse, no parents at all.
I can't really ever say I understand their stance, as I come from different circumstances, but I do empathize and sympathize.

[Antigen]

On 2005-07-06 13:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

A place like Elan, although silly, won't kill anyone.If anything, it will give them funny stories to tell, that's about the extent of the damage on the 'normal' kids.

Well, maybe Elan has changed a LOT in recent years. That would be good news. But I don't think you can just write off everyone else's take on the thing. For some people, the abandonment alone is quite damaging, never mind the forced confessions, snitch culture and other stressors.

Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog