Author Topic: School threating to have child put into Foster Care if I ref  (Read 4378 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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School threating to have child put into Foster Care if I ref
« on: March 10, 2005, 11:24:00 PM »
My son has been getting into some trouble lately in school. I went to discuss this with the school psychologist and said he needs to be put on Haldol for his recent acting out. I said I did not want to have him on Haldol or any other medication. The school psycologist said if I refused to give permission, she would report me to Child Welfare and have my son removed from my home. Can they really do that or are they just trying to manipulate me?
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2005, 11:43:00 PM »
Haldol? Are you joking?
As to whether or not 'they can do this', it depends on what state you're in. And yeh, you're being manipulated. Have you considered your options? Private or Home School?
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Watchaduen

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School threating to have child put into Foster Care if I ref
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2005, 11:48:00 PM »
:eek:   Is that clear enough.  Everyone has a right to not take medication.  This would include children.
That is the only option they gave you?  Drug your son or we take him away?
Might be time for you to seek out a Child Advocate who is more up to date on laws concerning children and their right to an education.
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heryle - My son was TORTURED and ABUSED at Bethel Boys Academy aka Eagle Point Christian Academy, aka Pine View Academy, Lucedale, MS.

Offline Deborah

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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2005, 12:37:00 AM »
Cheryl,
Unfortunately, few states have laws that would prohibit a school from requiring drugs. And CPS has removed a large number of kids from their homes for parental non-compliance- "neglect".
There are only a handful of states that protect parents rights in this matter. Texas is one.
FYI,

Texans For Safe Education
John Breeding, PhD, Director
5306 Fort Clark Dr.
Austin, Texas 78745

The Honorable Lloyd Doggett 3-3-05
201 Cannon House Office Bldg.
(Independence and 1st Street, SE)
Washington DC 20515-0001

Dear Representative Doggett,

Please co-sponsor H.R. 181, known as the Parental Consent Act of 2005, sponsored by Representatives Ron Paul and Tom Feeney. I ask this as your
constituent, and on behalf of our citizens group, Texans For Safe Education (TFSE), of which I am the Director. Our group formed in 2000 out of our
concern for the ever-increasing role of psychiatry, especially psychiatric drugs in the schools. We worked very hard to ensure the passage of two new Texas laws in 2003 (House Bills 1406 and 320) that now serve to protect
parents and their children against undue coercion by the schools and Child Protective Services, respectively, to psychiatrically label and drug their children. Now we are extremely alarmed at the prospect of universal mental health screening in the schools. We implore you to take a leadership role in defense of our children and parents and in support of our schools' true
mission, by signing on and working for passage of H.R. 181's Prohibition Against Federal Funding of Universal Or Mandatory Mental Health Screening.

The recommendations and resultant initiatives toward universal mental health screening stem from the President's New Freedom Commission recommendations for Mental Health policy in the United States. We think this is a very wrong
and dangerous idea for many reasons, including the following.

1) The current reality is that we are already drugging an estimated 10 million school age children in the United States with addictive and
dangerous psychotropic substances, including stimulants controlled by the Drug Enforcement administration because of their high addictive potential and risk of abuse, antidepressants now banned in the UK and given a severe Black Box warning in this country because of their proven tendency to increase aggressive or suicidal thinking and action in a certain percentage of young people who take them, and  ntipsychotics, which are known to cause permanent neurological damage in the majority of people who take them for a very long time. We are already drugging at least 15% of our young people, and this is horribly wrong!

2) The New Freedom Commission consisted largely of so-called experts who were involved in the mid-90s with development of the Texas Medication
Algorithm Project (TMAP), a formulary developed for Mental Health and Mental Retardation (MHMR) in Texas, whereby specific psychotropic drugs are
mandated for different so-called mental illnesses. It has recently been clearly revealed in Texas media that TMAP development was significantly funded by private corporate pharmaceutical industries, which have subsequently reaped massive profits from sale of their key drugs that are included in the algorithms. This is bad ethics, and has cost the state MHMR and Medicaid systems millions upon millions of dollars. We would very much like for you to use your office to investigate this ethics matter for the state of Texas. We think it is extremely unethical and tragic to continue this trend, and use our nation's schoolchildren as pharmaceutical industry profit points. Vital to understand is that implementation of mental health
screening in the schools, however benevolent the rhetoric might sound, can only result in even more of our precious children being placed unnecessarily on dangerous psychotropic drugs.

3) The truth is that not one of these popular child psychiatric diagnoses (eg., ADHD, Bipolar Disorder, etc.) has been validated in the scientific literature as having an identifiable physical or chemical abnormality. There is no independent objective test for ADHD or Bipolar or Childhood Depression or any of these so-called mental illnesses. Biopsychiatry is a pseudoscience, and these drugs are extremely dangerous. All these diagnoses are entirely subjective opinions about groupings of various behaviors, which means that a very high percentage of young people can be labeled-hence the dangers of mental health screening.

4) Schools should be about academic education. The vast presence of psychiatry in the schools has resulted in a huge industry, one in which the
intent of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) to assure that we meet the educational needs of physically handicapped children has been eroded so greatly that fully 60% of the qualifying "disabilities" today
are entirely subjective categories such as non-specific learning disabilities and psychiatric diagnoses like ADHD. Since there is no objective physical disability, the sad fact is that these labels and drugs are about social control, an all too tragic modern version of eugenic philosophy that blames social differences on genetics and uses biological and genetic justification to enforce a certain ideology and standard. Mental health screening in the schools only further erodes and undermines the true mission of education, and greatly stigmatizes and harms our
children in the process.

5) The bottom line is discovered by "following the money." In this case, it is particularly tragic that our nation's children have become immense profit points for the pharmaceutical industry. It is shameful that our government
schools have become the major conduit of millions of our children into psychiatric labeling and drug use.

The American public does not want further intrusion of psychiatry into the schools. There is a vast outpouring of protest against the New Freedom Commission's recommendations for universal mental health screening. Texans For Safe Education, together with Parents for a Label and Drug Free Education, has collected 7500 signators to our "Declaration of Refusal to
comply with any new freedom commission mandate for universal mental health screening of children in the schools." The concluding statement of this
declaration is as follows:

"We have philosophical or moral objections to government-sponsored intrusion of psychiatry into the schools. The legal doctrines of privacy and informed consent reflect underlying value placed on privacy, autonomy, and informed consent. We consider New Freedom recommendations to be a serious threat not only to our educational system, but most importantly to the development and well-being of our children. Therefore, we insist that any New Freedom Commission policy recommendations that put our children at risk for
unwarranted intrusion, labeling and psychiatric drugging be immediately discarded." (http://www.ablechild.org/declaration%20 ... fusal.aspx)

In conclusion, H.R. 181 is about protecting privacy, about parental rights, the appropriate role of the schools, and major ethical failures in allowing corporate pharmaceutical industry money to influence our educational and mental health systems. Most importantly, this legislation challenges the burgeoning and very harmful practice of drugging literally millions of our precious school age children. I call it institutionalized child abuse.

Representative Doggett, we ask that you co-sponsor H.R. 181, the Parental Consent Act of 2005, and that you take a leadership position on this issue. Please let me know of your thoughts and decisions on this request, and know that we are available with information and support at any time.

Sincerely and Respectfully Yours,

John Breeding, PhD

***************

Unfortunately,
Parental rights are ignored, with no public hearing in sight

Hartford, Connecticut Legislative Education Committee failed to act on a parental informed consent bill that would ensure that parents receive full informed consent prior to any psychiatric testing being done on their children
in public schools. This bill HB #5328 was written to safeguard parental rights and would have ensured that each parent be provided with certain regulations and amendments, informing them of their basic right to "opt out" of psychiatric
testing for their children through state public schools. Connecticut was a frontrunner in protecting parental rights, by being the first state to pass a law to prohibit schools from recommending psychotropic drugs to parents for
their children. This first state law prompted several other states to take similar action in response to a parental outcry, in which reports by parents of schools coercing them to place their children on psychotropic drugs (e.g.
Ritalin) to remain in school became all too common. The states' response and chain reaction, in turn, led to similar Federal legislation, "The Prohibition on Mandatory Medication Amendment," signed into law by the President December 3,
2004.

In the wake of so much turmoil and grave concerns, an informed consent bill, looks like a safety net where there is none. The bottom line is that parents cannot make educated decisions without being provided with all the facts.
Today, schools continue to profile children for mental disorders like ADHD by using subjective checklists, rating scales, or assessments, not even endorsed or approved by local, state or federal government. Parents are not being told
this. These same subjective psychiatric assessments for ADHD were removed from the state of Neuvo Leon in Mexico last year by the Secretary of Education herself, due to their subjective and unscientific nature.

The culmination of events questioning the safety and efficacy of behavior modifying drugs on children, and the subjective assessments used in psychiatric diagnoses, should not be discounted. Everyone needs to be asking why the state's education committee blatantly turned a blind eye to parental rights, and disregarded widespread concerns without providing for a hearing on this matter.

More pointedly, we should be asking why America, or her states, is not ensuring parental rights and protecting children's health and safety.

For more information on ADHD, informed consent, and mental health within education please visit our site at http://www.ablechild.org.
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline BSarro

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School threating to have child put into Foster Care if I ref
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2005, 01:27:00 AM »
Give it a rest Deborah!You , Cheryle, and this Anon are questioning the opinion of A LICENSED PROFESSIONAL! Anon, do you want to keep ustody of your son?If so,GRANT PERMSSION! I know that Niles will most definitely have something to say regarding this topic.                                                            

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God helps those who help themselves.Take marriage seriously.Once the Wedding Ring goes on the finger, it stays on the finger.[ This Message was edited by: BSarro on 2005-03-10 22:29 ][ This Message was edited by: BSarro on 2005-03-10 22:46 ]
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od helps those who help themselves.                            Take marriage seriously.                             Once the Wedding Ring goes on the finger, it stays on the finger.

Offline chi3

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School threating to have child put into Foster Care if I ref
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2005, 03:28:00 AM »
i cannot believe i am taking the bait on this one, but bsarro, whoever you are, you are either on here screwing with people or crazy!!!! a licensed professional? so what? at some rinky dink school? so if your doctor, a licensed professional, tell you to drink arsenic are you going to do it? he is, after all, a licensed professional! Anon, take your child to a real doctor, several if neccessary, and move him out of that idiotic school. haldol is not like popping a couple of tylenol. this is your child, you know him better than anyone else, you are the parent, it is your responsibility to protect your child. do it.
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Offline Anonymous

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School threating to have child put into Foster Care if I ref
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2005, 05:01:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-03-10 20:24:00, Anonymous wrote:

"My son has been getting into some trouble lately in school. I went to discuss this with the school psychologist and said he needs to be put on Haldol for his recent acting out. I said I did not want to have him on Haldol or any other medication. The school psycologist said if I refused to give permission, she would report me to Child Welfare and have my son removed from my home. Can they really do that or are they just trying to manipulate me?"

Haldol?  For "acting out"?  Haldol is a powerful antipsychotic for schizophrenia and the like.  Is the psychologist crazy?  Sounds like he is a more likely candidate for Haldol.

If your kid really needs Haldol it is a psychistrist, not a psychologist, who should be making the diagnosis.  Get your kid to your own shrink ASAP.  It will be a lot harder for them to push you around if you have your own expert fighting in your corner.
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Offline Anonymous

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School threating to have child put into Foster Care if I ref
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2005, 06:24:00 AM »
Haldol is not recomended for children - it's used as a chemical restraint most often to knock people out who are being beligerent. It has over 100 side effects and can cause death and blindness. It's a very dangerous drug - can't immagine anyone who cares about the health of a child recommending this - it's very dangerous. Search it and see for yourself...
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Offline White Cracker Man

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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2005, 02:15:00 PM »
A couple years ago there was a story of a mother having a similiar situation, except I believe the drug was Ritalin. She did her own kind of manipulation by calling The New York Post and the school and Child Welfare quickly backed off. Nothing like a little media exposure!
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Offline BSarro

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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2005, 11:53:00 AM »
Oh please CHI3!Like a LICENSED PROFESSIONAL would tell you to drink Arsenic.This is Haldol, which has been proven to be very effective for hyper kids.This will allow him to be able to get a better education, which people like CHI3 do not want your son to have because they want you to be an ineffective parent like them.

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God helps those who help themselves.                     Take marriage seriously.                      Once the Wedding Ring goes on the finger, it stays on the finger.           [ This Message was edited by: BSarro on 2005-03-12 08:55 ]
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od helps those who help themselves.                            Take marriage seriously.                             Once the Wedding Ring goes on the finger, it stays on the finger.

Offline Anonymous

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School threating to have child put into Foster Care if I ref
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2005, 01:04:00 PM »
Okay, parent, I also had a problem with a public school reporting me to child welfare for frivolous reasons.  It seems to be how they get rid of families whose kids they don't want to deal with.

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.

First, you take a tape recorder with you and go see the school psychologist.  Check the laws in your state about whether you have to tell her she's being recorded or not.

Reiterate the conversation you had about your kid and Haldol.  Ask her if she is actually telling you that if you do not get your kid on Haldol or other psychotropic medication that she will report you to child welfare and try to get your child taken away.

Then pull out the tape recorder and tell *her* that if you have the tiniest bit of trouble with child welfare you *are* taking the matter to your local news media, the news media in your state capitol, your elected representatives, the national news media in the form of the O'Reilly Factor and WorldNetDaily and Drudge---who just eat this stuff up.  And the local school board and superintendent to boot---and that you will also make a complaint to the local police against her for practicing medicine without a license.

If she is not a licensed psychiatrist, she isn't legally authorized to prescribe medicine or any specific treatment---and threatening you if you don't comply with her prescribed treatment amounts to practicing medicine without a license.

Additionally, if your child has a disability, tell her that you have retained an attorney as of that date and *will* be pursuing all available options if she doesn't quit harrassing your family for your child's disability.

Before you do that, without telling her you are, get an appointment (get an emergency appointment by explaining the situation to the receptionist or the doctor's nurse) with a board certified pediatric psychiatrist to review your child.

Explain to the psychiatrist *if* he/she says your child does have a problem that you would like to try therapy, dietary supplements or changes, and any other available non-drug interventions before resorting to strong psychoactive drugs because your child is so young and you just aren't sure what you're looking at yet---or even if your child truly needs a diagnosis.  Explain that you would like to track your child's symptoms for awhile through a journal to confirm whether or not your child needs a diagnosis and to ensure that if he does, he gets the *correct* diagnosis.

Why I'm telling you to do this is *not* because I think your kid needs to be on medication and *not* because I don't *entirely* sympathize with your desire to ensure that your kid avoids damage from strong drugs if there's *any* alternative.

I'm advising you to see the pshrink because a *good* pshrink---and most board certified ped. psychiatrists are good pshrinks---will work with you, will *not* jump to snap conclusions about whether you kid is ill or what the diagnosis should be if he is.

The *vital* part is that by seeing a reputable pshrink you are Covering Your Ass against the school psychologist's allegation to child welfare that you are neglecting to provide appropriate medical care.

That's the *only* lever the Bitch has on you---the allegation that you are neglecting your child by failing to provide necessary medical care in a timely manner.

The *only* way you can protect your child from being taken to the pshrink of *their* choice who is biased to say what they want him/her to say is to take your child to the pshrink of *your* choice.

You can ask the receptionist, or ask around on the net, to find a pshrink that has a philosophy of being inclined to cooperate with parents who want to avoid medication if at all possible.

Look, in all probability your kid is *not* a budding Kip Kinkle.  

If he is, he *needs* meds.

If he's *not*---as he almost certainly is not---then your desire to avoid medication should be respected as long as you can find alternatives that keep him from being dangerous or failing to learn.

You may have to work really hard to provide those difficult and time-consuming alternatives, depending on whether your kid is sick or learning disabled and depending on *how* sick.

But as long as there are alternatives and you're actively pursuing them---you and your child's father should be presumed to be acting in the best interests of your child and your wishes should be respected.

Anyway---take the tools out of that presumptuous, arrogant, abusive Bitch's hands and turn the tables around on her.

Timoclea
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Offline Anonymous

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School threating to have child put into Foster Care if I ref
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2005, 07:21:00 PM »
Thanks for all the responses.I met yesterday with the School Psycologist. I told her I did not want to fight her anymore. I told her I simply wanted to take my son out of the school. She said any attempts to do so would only add to my negligent behavior. I am gonna review all my options. Thanks again for all the responses.
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Offline nightcrawler

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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2005, 07:27:00 PM »
In most cases a "school psychologist" has a maters degree at best.  Maybe it's different in some states, but in mine they can't write prescriptions, they can only make recommendations.  I have a neighbor that is a school psychologist and he describes his frustration in being only able to recommend to parents what may be a good course of action.  It's up to the parents to take action.  If this "Licensed Professional" as Bsarro has them  labeled, has a Doctorate in psychiatry, then s/he is massively underpaid for their potential.  Or is such a quack, that working in a school is the only job they could get.

Taking in a tape recorder as Timoclea mentions is a good idea.  It's not admissible in court without their consent first.  But since the school has over stepped it's bounds, I'm sure that legal action is not what they want.  They want parents that are sheep.

Get a second, & third opinion before ever agreeing to what the school is saying.  Bias is everywhere in the medical and educational fields.
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Offline Anonymous

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School threating to have child put into Foster Care if I ref
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2005, 10:15:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-03-12 16:27:00, nightcrawler wrote:

"In most cases a "school psychologist" has a maters degree at best.  Maybe it's different in some states, but in mine they can't write prescriptions, they can only make recommendations.  I have a neighbor that is a school psychologist and he describes his frustration in being only able to recommend to parents what may be a good course of action.  It's up to the parents to take action.  If this "Licensed Professional" as Bsarro has them  labeled, has a Doctorate in psychiatry, then s/he is massively underpaid for their potential.  Or is such a quack, that working in a school is the only job they could get.



Taking in a tape recorder as Timoclea mentions is a good idea.  It's not admissible in court without their consent first.  But since the school has over stepped it's bounds, I'm sure that legal action is not what they want.  They want parents that are sheep.



Get a second, & third opinion before ever agreeing to what the school is saying.  Bias is everywhere in the medical and educational fields."


Besides, even if you can't get it admitted into court, you sure can play it for the social worker if the school psychologist files a complaint.

When our child's school did this to us---because they didn't recognize a lot of what they were seeing were from her disability and they hadn't bothered to get trained on that disability like they had a responsibility to do---our social worker ended up pretty exasperated with the school.

I don't think he was exactly mad at them--checking out stuff is his job.  I *do* think he thought they'd been your basic idiots.

We signed waivers so he could look at all her records with the pediatrician, psychiatrist, therapist, dentist.  He talked to the people at our dojo and verified she was enrolled and did take classes regularly.  We invited him over and patiently answered his questions.

He ended up going through all the red tape he was required to do to check out any complaint, and at the end of the required 30 days sent us the letter clearing us.

If you don't cooperate fully with a child welfare worker when they're initially investigating, it looks like you have something to hide.  They just don't understand how or why *anyone* would feel the need or desire to stand on principle about their personal privacy.  It's a narrow, parochial view, but the social workers are the people you *don't* want to piss off.

Besides, looking at it from their point of view, 99% of the people they deal with don't resist or do anything *other* than cooperate fully unless they really *are* abusing or neglecting their child.

What will probably happen if a social worker comes over is they'll go through the same rigamarole they did with us.  Don't be surprised if they contact your child before they ever talk to you, and *then* call you to tell you they've done it and you're being investigated.

Then after they visit and see your house and talk to you, they'll probably find a couple of things to suggest a few changes about.  Be polite and friendly and cooperative with the nice bureacrat with the big, sharp, pointy teeth.

They'll probably then want you to sign a "safety plan" listing the couple of things they found and agreeing to take specific steps to fix them.

Look, all this is like when recruits in boot camp in the army are standing for inspection.  They will find *something* just to show they're doing their jobs.  They have to find *something*.

But if you're polite and cooperative, it will be a small something and painless to "fix" to their satisfaction and they will *probably* go away and leave you alone.

If they don't clear you after 30 days, *then* think about getting a lawyer.

Oh, and one of their little tricks on "neglect" is to ask if your child is ever left alone.  Don't be fooled, find out what age is considered neglect for that in your state, and if your child is younger than that, the answer is, "No, of course not.  I really don't think a child should be until he is [age], don't you?  And then only for short periods once in awhile."

Their "checklist" for neglect is they'll look to see if you're overly strict or dangerously lax--just act more or less normally and you'll be fine.  They'll want to see where your child sleeps, where his/her clothes are and that they're adequate, and that you have adequate nutritious food in the house.

So buy fresh fruits and vegetables and have the fruit conspicuous in the fruit bowl, milk in the fridge, bread, cheese, vegetables in the crisper and/or freezer.  You know, several days worth of your basic nutritious food.

Even if the rest of the house is kindof messy, have your kid's room clean, the bathroom he uses clean, and the kitchen clean when you think the social worker may come over.

Contact the HLDA and find out the homeschooling rules in your state.  It may be that the school pshrink is just trying to scare you.

Absolutely *do not* neglect to get your child to a board certified pediatric psychiatrist *ASAP*.  Make an emergency appointment.

This is SERIOUS.

The school pshrink's only *real* hold on you is the allegation that you have neglected to get your child prompt medical treatment when necessary.

But it's a *big* hold on you.

Even if you don't like or approve of pshrinks, if you neglect this step you're putting your household in jeopardy.  

If you just call around, it should be easy to find a pshrink who respects parents opinions and wishes about medication *unless* the child is actively dangerous to self or others.

Depending on your state, their may not be very *many* ped. pshrinks available and to find one who  will work with you you may have to drive a bit.

But if you want to negate this bitch's hold on you you *must* get your kid in to see a pshrink.

You don't necessarily have to go regularly or be under the pshrink's care on an ongoing basis.  You just need the pshrink to *either* say your kid is okay or make recommendations about what you should do or watch for with the suggestion that you call for an appointment if you have X problems with your kid.

If the bitch calls child welfare on you, you need to be able to say, "Oh, well since she was so concerned, that made us concerned even though we didn't feel the same way and we wanted to check it out---Of course we want our child to be okay and want to get treatment if he isn't.---Here, we'd be glad to sign a waiver so you can talk to the psychiatrist she saw."

If your kid *is* dangerous, then he probably needs to be medicated even if that tears your heart in two.  I *know* how painful that is---my 9 y.o. daughter is early onset bipolar.  Not dangerous, but she was completely non-functional and it just broke my heart to have to make that very difficult choice--to medicate, or not to medicate.

If your kid is *not* dangerous, then you need to cover your ass to get this bitch out of your business.  And the only way to do that is to be able to prove to any child welfare worker that you *did* get your child checked out for this with a competent medical professional and followed whatever plan of action you and the doctor came up with.

Timoclea
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Offline RN on Board

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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2005, 10:32:00 PM »
http://www.walnet.org/llf/drugs/haldol.html#start

Here's some information on Haldol - it's a very dangerous drug - can cause death, permanent eye damage and brain damage.
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