Author Topic: Has anyone heard of this place???  (Read 6441 times)

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Offline Cayo Hueso

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Has anyone heard of this place???
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2005, 08:50:00 PM »
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On 2005-03-16 22:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I enrolled my daughter at Sagewalk 2 1/2 weeks ago for chronic depression/anxiety issues and recent academic failure. No drugs or alchohol problems and no defiance. Generally a good kid just struggling. I have been feeling uneasy about the more severe diagnosis of the typical kid and the restrictive enviorment. Where can I get more info...I am afraid for her at this point. What can I do now?"

To the parent that posted this.  Please go back and re-read this...

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#84005
Quote
Discipline: Facility seeking behavioral change through extraordinarily rigorous behavioral demands, some counseling or therapeutic content also available


"Therapeutic content" also[/b] available?????  WTF is "therapeutic content" and why would therapy be listed as just kind of an afterthought? :???:

"When did I realize it? Well, one day I was praying and suddenly realized I was talking to myself."
--God

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t. Pete Straight
early 80s

Offline Cayo Hueso

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« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2005, 08:53:00 PM »
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"When did I realize it? Well, one day I was praying and suddenly realized I was talking to myself." God




Ginger, is this new?  :lol:

Any Irishman who doubts the reality of selective enforcement ought to take just a moment to comtemplate the etymology of the term "paddy waggon".
--Antigen

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t. Pete Straight
early 80s

Offline Antigen

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Has anyone heard of this place???
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2005, 09:03:00 PM »
Yes. Thank Bellis for finding it.

The inspiration of the Bible depends on the ignorance of the person who reads it.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Cayo Hueso

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« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2005, 09:08:00 PM »
:lol: She's such a cool kid!!

There is no devil and no hell. Thy soul will be dead even sooner than thy body: fear therefore nothing any more.
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher

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t. Pete Straight
early 80s

Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2005, 09:39:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-03-16 22:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I enrolled my daughter at Sagewalk 2 1/2 weeks ago for chronic depression/anxiety issues and recent academic failure. No drugs or alchohol problems and no defiance. Generally a good kid just struggling. I have been feeling uneasy about the more severe diagnosis of the typical kid and the restrictive enviorment. Where can I get more info...I am afraid for her at this point. What can I do now?"


If youre NOT a troll, and you really do care, then take your child out, NOW, and find out the truth for yourself, for all of us - and your daughter. She has no way out if she is in trouble, and you know that.

[1971 - 2001] the darkest chapter in Federal law enforcement history.
http://www.house.gov/reform/press/02.01.07.htm' target='_new'>Committee on Government Reform

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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2005, 05:28:00 PM »
Don't be afraid.  My son also went through the SageWalk program and it did him a world of good.  The people there truly do care about the well being of the kids and SageWalk is one of the only programs I've seen (and I researched many) that have an aftercare program as well as the ability to send your child back for very little money if they "forget" the tools and lessons they have learned.  It was the only place that my son was able to truly look into himself and develope the selfworth he needed to be a contributing member of society.  It is not just a "walk in the woods" it's hard work and the kids really have to get real to make it through.  It was a god send for us and everyone is much happier because of the help he recieved there.
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Offline Timoclea

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« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2005, 04:56:00 PM »
A number of programs offer this kind of return guarantee.

One of them that offered this return guarantee, the kid had returned home and in violation of his agreement with his mom for terms of living at home, he had had a beer and smoked some pot.

When she started talking about sending him back, he got her gun off the top of the refrigerator (why she had one there I have no idea) and killed himself with it.

Wasn't that mom the one that even with her son *dead* was praising the Program, still, for having "saved" him.  Echoes of Mai Lai.  "We had to destroy the village in order to save it."

Is that screwed up or what?

Gotta love those "return the kid to the program" guarantees.

If your kid annoys you that much, just save your time and money.  Your local pawn shop will sell you a pistol for about $200 and you can buy ammo at any local gun range or sporting goods store.

If your kid that annoys you that much, I guess it's the gift that keeps on giving.

Yup, I guess if your son is afraid enough of going back that he'd rather die it just might motivate most kids to toe the line.

No damned wonder your kid is obeying you as if you had a loaded gun to his head.  In effect, you do.

But in five to fifteen years when he's paying his own rent and and the cult-implanted false personality covering up his real one wears off and the PTSD kicks in, don't expect a lot of contact with him.

But if you were that fed up with him in the first place that you didn't mind throwing away your entire adult relationship with him when he's grown, if someone's *that* fed up with their kid, why not just sign him over to foster care and save the money?  Hell, it's cheaper than the pawn shop pistol option.

Ain't modern convenience great?  Everything's disposable.

Program parents' marriages are disposable.

If the kid won't provide love and abject obedience  on command, and can't be forced into a mold of providing love and abject obedience on command, he's disposable, too.

Gimme my high-powered career and my Lexus and everything else enough money can buy.

After all, if my kid can't provide me with abject obedience, affection on demand, and an conveniently painless substitute for adolescence, what the hell is he good for, anyway?

If he's not "enhancing my personal growth", to hell with him.

Maybe this doesn't describe you and your kid.  But it seems to describe the majority of program kids who aren't seriously mentally ill, and the kids who are seriously mentally ill need better and different treatment than the programs provide, anyway.  For the kids who are seriously mentally ill, the programs are dangerous and do more harm than help.  That's NIMH's opinion of facilities that place seriously mentally ill children alongside juvenile delinquents.

The majority of program parents wouldn't have disposable children if they hadn't already had disposable marriages.

Timoclea

May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-- George Carlin

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Offline talene

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« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2005, 08:38:00 PM »
Sagewalk does not, in fact, accept children with eating disorders (bulimia, anorexia, etc.) nor children who are extremely violent or suicidal, etc.  They have those things, among others, posted on their website as "exclusions."  Also, the description of the program and the length of program are completely wrong.  Maybe this information is just out-of-date, or maybe it's just all made up.  Who knows?

Sagewalk is not a punitive program.  Difficult does not equal punitive. My daughter is there.  She's a great kid, but very mixed up.  I speak with her therapist every week and my daugther and I write letters back and forth.  I went to their offices and met the people who would be working with my daughter before I enrolled her.  I advise anyone making this kind of decision to do the same.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2005, 10:49:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-04-21 13:56:00, Timoclea wrote:

"Yup, I guess if your son is afraid enough of going back that he'd rather die it just might motivate most kids to toe the line.



No damned wonder your kid is obeying you as if you had a loaded gun to his head.  In effect, you do.



But in five to fifteen years when he's paying his own rent and and the cult-implanted false personality covering up his real one wears off and the PTSD kicks in, don't expect a lot of contact with him."


She must have skipped over this part...
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2005, 03:54:00 AM »
Hi,
Thanks for all your information on sagewalk.  I am a college student and my little brother is in the program right now and I want him out.  Do you have any other information on it, and would you trust your kid to be in this program?  I am weary of the entire thing and want my parents to pull him asap.  He sends letters home about freezing at night and being hungry.  He could very well be overdramatizing the situation, but nobody has spoken to him in person and it freaks me out.  I also don't trust that the person who decided his progress and when he comes home is nothing more than a LCSW... which is basically a social worker.  Let me know what you think.

thanks
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2005, 03:58:00 AM »
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On 2005-06-28 00:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Hi,

Thanks for all your information on sagewalk.  I am a college student and my little brother is in the program right now and I want him out.  Do you have any other information on it, and would you trust your kid to be in this program?  I am weary of the entire thing and want my parents to pull him asap.  He sends letters home about freezing at night and being hungry.  He could very well be overdramatizing the situation, but nobody has spoken to him in person and it freaks me out.  I also don't trust that the person who decided his progress and when he comes home is nothing more than a LCSW... which is basically a social worker.  Let me know what you think.



thanks"


I would always trust a child over a money-making, child-warehousing program. You're right, a social worker shouldn't be making these decisions. In most programs, most of the staff have no qualifications whatsoever, or they might have qualifications that are simply not appropriate for the situation.

I think you should get him out of there as soon as possible.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2005, 04:03:00 AM »
If difficult isn't punitive, then what is it, and why is it a good thing?

Does she have a choice in anything? What if she choses not to go along with it? How do they make her do things or punish her, exactly? Restraint (pain compliance and/or joint manipulation), withholding food, group punishments?

How is marching around squat-pissing and eating bugs therapeutic, exactly? If anything you're teaching her to be better prepared in the wilderness, something useful if shes stranded on the side of the road, or feels like running away.

If you just got pissed off, tough shit! Difficult isnt punitive, right? :grin: If you made the choice to send your money, and even more importantly your child to this place, you need to be able to know how what they do is therapeutic or supposed to 'fix' or 'treat' whatever problems she has. And, for that matter, actually identify the problems she has.

"Mixed up" doesnt equal having a problem, its a very vague statement that shows that you and the program seem to think shes not behaving properly and you want to make her act a certain way. The writing letters is a good thing, but that kind of communication is easy to censor. If anything was happening, youd have no way to know, unless they didnt read her letter or her therapist felt like telling you during a weekly phone call.

Hey, sometimes things are just difficult, aren't they?

I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure.

--Clarence Darrow

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2005, 04:36:00 PM »
StepOne for Parents and InCrisis.Org is a service provided by Mentor Research Institute a 501c3 non-profit that was the first organization to publish consumer protection information for parents to help protect them from unsafe programs. The program has been reviewed by independent experts and has been tested thoroughly. The system does not recommend specific programs. It is not funded by any programs. The Board of Directors are not paid and do not work for any programs. MRI has worked with media to promote safe schools. The institute provided consultation regarding standards of care that lead to the closure of 4 programs. Dr. Conner was a three time guest expert on national televsion warning parents about programs and he confronted institutionalized abuse. Sagewalk is participating in the first independent research project to demonstrate the effectiveness of outdoor behavioral health programs. SageWalk is a licensed program with significant oversight and professional staff. SageWalk is a model program meeting and exceeding standards of care nationally. If you have any questions please call Mentor Research Institute at 503 227-2027. You can find out more at http://www.InCrisis.Org, http://www.OregonCounseling.Org and http://www.EducationOptions.Org.
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Offline Deborah

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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Curious John

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« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2005, 11:44:00 PM »
My first question for the anonymous poster is what is you connection to Michael Conner? All three of the links you provided are connected directly to him.

Second, your comment "The Board of Directors are not paid and do not work for any programs." is a very misleading statement, if not an outright lie. You do not provide a list of the Board of Directors on your website and Michael Conner has worked in the industry during his time at Mentor Research Institute as both Consulting Psychologist, Obsidian School(1) and Clinical Director for SageWalk (1)(2)(3). Also, the last time (prior to it being taken off their webpage)  that InCrisis included their list of Board of Directors on their page it included Larry Solie, Executive Director & CEO of SageWalk,. They have not provided that information since January but I will happily send my copy of the January 11th page to anyone who would like it.  You can't possibly say that Larry Solie does not work for any programs... He is the OWNER and CEO of Sagewalk!

Third, I would like to know exactly which four programs MRI has caused to close and specifically which programs they have discouraged parents from sending their children to. Were they Obsidian Trails, Skyline Journey, Mt. Bachelor Academy, NorthStar, etc.?

And on a final note I want to say that SageWalk is a long way from the prestigious organization that the anonymous poster tries to portray them as. I will follow up soon with a more detailed post, but let me finish this one with a press release that Sagewalk's current Director of Family Services, Chip Huge, released while he was working for Obsidian Trails.(4)

Press Release
Obsidian Schools


Bend, OR 97701
Chip Huge, PhD
http://www.help-for-parents.org/Resume.htm
2. http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... ews02.html
3. http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... ews01.html
4. http://strugglingteens.com/news/controv ... rails.html
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