Author Topic: G.T. Now  (Read 66185 times)

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Offline Helena Handbasket

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« Reply #495 on: February 03, 2005, 11:02:00 PM »
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   How about treating the ROOT instead of the symptons?!  Why not confront the child with his/her negative decisions/behaviors (stealing), and discuss WHY she feels the need to be sneaky, dishonest?!  What is she buying with this money she's stealing?  How are these actions going to cause her more problems in the future if she doesn't stop them NOW (criminal, etc.)??

  Let her know it's unacceptable behavior... that you love her but you won't sit back and allow her to continue this.  Help her figure out HONEST ways to EARN money.  Let her know there will be consequences if this happens again, then FOLLOW THROUGH.

  That's where I would start.  Not buying a safe for my wallet in my own home, and avoiding dealing with her about it face-to-face."


Speaking of books, why don't you start with "Hooked on Phonics", then move up to "Adventures in Reading Comprehension".  

I left the "duh" factor out of that particular post, and I talked about communications in another.

Contrary to Programite belief, I do have better things to do other than  hold your hand to take you back to what you missed.
[ This Message was edited by: ~-=Sara=-~ on 2005-02-03 20:04 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #496 on: February 03, 2005, 11:16:00 PM »
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On 2005-02-03 20:02:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:

"
Quote



   How about treating the ROOT instead of the symptons?!  Why not confront the child with his/her negative decisions/behaviors (stealing), and discuss WHY she feels the need to be sneaky, dishonest?!  What is she buying with this money she's stealing?  How are these actions going to cause her more problems in the future if she doesn't stop them NOW (criminal, etc.)??



  Let her know it's unacceptable behavior... that you love her but you won't sit back and allow her to continue this.  Help her figure out HONEST ways to EARN money.  Let her know there will be consequences if this happens again, then FOLLOW THROUGH.



  That's where I would start.  Not buying a safe for my wallet in my own home, and avoiding dealing with her about it face-to-face."




Speaking of books, why don't you start with "Hooked on Phonics", then move up to "Adventures in Reading Comprehension".  



I left the "duh" factor out of that particular post, and I talked about communications in another.



Contrary to Programite belief, I do have better things to do other than  hold your hand to take you back to what you missed.

[ This Message was edited by: ~-=Sara=-~ on 2005-02-03 20:04 ]"


  Well, no surprise there that you would want to zone in on the "grammer", etc., instead on the actual content.
  You go ahead, though, dear.  Whatever makes you feel superior to others - do what you must.  :tup:
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Offline Helena Handbasket

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« Reply #497 on: February 03, 2005, 11:22:00 PM »
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  Well, no surprise there that you would want to zone in on the "grammer", etc., instead on the actual content.

  You go ahead, though, dear.  Whatever makes you feel superior to others - do what you must.  :tup: "


Your content shows that you picked one sentence of something I wrote and threw it back in the form of an attack.  Reading comprehension has nothing to do with grammar, genius.

And just because you haven't grasped basic reading and critical thinking skills, does not mean that I think myself superior.  That's another one of your assumptions.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #498 on: February 04, 2005, 12:57:00 AM »
Tell us Sara ...   DO you have children?
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Offline Helena Handbasket

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« Reply #499 on: February 04, 2005, 07:15:00 AM »
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On 2005-02-03 21:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

 Tell us Sara ...   DO you have children?"


And to quote one of the brighter bulbs in this box:

What's that got to do with the price of dope in Amsterdam?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #500 on: February 04, 2005, 09:47:00 AM »
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On 2005-02-04 04:15:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-02-03 21:57:00, Anonymous wrote:


"


 Tell us Sara ...   DO you have children?"




And to quote one of the brighter bulbs in this box:



What's that got to do with the price of dope in Amsterdam?"


  Hard for you to connect that inquiry with previous posts??  Ok, I'll put in DIRECT format :
 
   You threw out some advice, theories on parenting/ raising children.  I'm just wondering what your "parenting" experience is?
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Offline Helena Handbasket

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« Reply #501 on: February 04, 2005, 10:14:00 AM »
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  Hard for you to connect that inquiry with previous posts??  Ok, I'll put in DIRECT format :

 
   You threw out some advice, theories on parenting/ raising children.  I'm just wondering what your "parenting" experience is?



 


Not that it's any of your business, but I raised a stepchild from age 4 to 15.  Now, I'm sure you'll assume that I'm no longer married because I'm a horrible person.  Again, it's none of your business, but the demise of my marriage came about because my husband found a woman who's worth a few more million than I am.

In the 11 years I was involved with my stepdaughter, of course she got into trouble.  Curfews were broken, rules were broken, and sometimes she was just an out and out brat.

I used common sense and creativity. (I say *I*, because Dad was never involved - always had his nose in a video game and told me, "You handle this")  The kid and I TALKED.  Dialogue.  Questions and answers on both sides.  Common sense parenting.

There was none of this "Go to your room", no questions asked.  But there were consequences, and she learned from them.  

Long story short, I know that a year after the divorce, she was living with her grandmother (Cash Cow didn't like kids), and was pulling straight A's and involved in sports and music.
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Offline Cayo Hueso

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« Reply #502 on: February 04, 2005, 10:16:00 AM »
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On 2005-02-04 06:47:00, Anonymous wrote:




  Hard for you to connect that inquiry with previous posts??  Ok, I'll put in DIRECT format :

 

   You threw out some advice, theories on parenting/ raising children.  I'm just wondering what your "parenting" experience is?



  "


I've got 20+ years of parenting experience and Sara is on the mark.  See, this takes an extreme commitment from parents to be FULLY involved in their kids lives.  It's much easier to ship them off somewhere, it absolves the parent of the responsibility of actually dealing with the problems.  I've said before here, many times that I've got experience from BOTH sides here.  I've been a kid in a program and I'm a parent of two teens.  I've been through a hellacious few years with my older one and there is NO WAY IN HELL I would allow her to be put into a program.  Hell, my ex tried.  He swore up and down that she was going to be deadinsaneorinjail if we didn't.  I said over my dead fucking body.  Surprise!!!!  She's doing pretty well now.  It wasn't easy by any means.  When she was 15 & 16 I had to clamp down hard on her.  That meant that I had to give up a huge part of my life to make sure that she was safe.  When she was 17 I had to begin to let her make her own mistakes and learn the natural consequences of them.  THAT was when the changes started to take place.  When trying to FORCE her behavior to change, it didn't work.  When I let her fall she began to realize that the way in which she was living her life wasn't working. I understand that that is an incredibly scary proposition for parents to consider, but the facts are that most kids grow out of their dangerous behaviors.

Now.  I'm off to Jax for the Super Bowl.  Eat your heart out guys!!! :wave:   Luv ya group! :grin:

They came with a Bible and their religion- stole our land, crushed our spirit... and now tell us we should be thankful to the 'Lord' for being saved.
--Chief Pontiac, American Indian Chieftain

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Offline Helena Handbasket

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« Reply #503 on: February 04, 2005, 10:19:00 AM »
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Now.  I'm off to Jax for the Super Bowl.  Eat your heart out guys!!! :wave:   Luv ya group! :grin:


Oh I'm jealous!  GO PATRIOTS!!!!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #504 on: February 04, 2005, 03:42:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-02-04 07:14:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:

"
Quote


  Hard for you to connect that inquiry with previous posts??  Ok, I'll put in DIRECT format :


 
   You threw out some advice, theories on parenting/ raising children.  I'm just wondering what your "parenting" experience is?





 




Not that it's any of your business, but I raised a stepchild from age 4 to 15.  Now, I'm sure you'll assume that I'm no longer married because I'm a horrible person.  Again, it's none of your business, but the demise of my marriage came about because my husband found a woman who's worth a few more million than I am.



In the 11 years I was involved with my stepdaughter, of course she got into trouble.  Curfews were broken, rules were broken, and sometimes she was just an out and out brat.



I used common sense and creativity. (I say *I*, because Dad was never involved - always had his nose in a video game and told me, "You handle this")  The kid and I TALKED.  Dialogue.  Questions and answers on both sides.  Common sense parenting.



There was none of this "Go to your room", no questions asked.  But there were consequences, and she learned from them.  



Long story short, I know that a year after the divorce, she was living with her grandmother (Cash Cow didn't like kids), and was pulling straight A's and involved in sports and music.




"


 Interesting. Appreciate you answering, with a minimal amount of condescension this time.
  So if she were stealing from you, would your answer still be to just lock up your stuff?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #505 on: February 04, 2005, 03:46:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-02-04 07:16:00, Cayo Hueso wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-02-04 06:47:00, Anonymous wrote:






  Hard for you to connect that inquiry with previous posts??  Ok, I'll put in DIRECT format :


 


   You threw out some advice, theories on parenting/ raising children.  I'm just wondering what your "parenting" experience is?




 

  "




I've got 20+ years of parenting experience and Sara is on the mark.  See, this takes an extreme commitment from parents to be FULLY involved in their kids lives.  It's much easier to ship them off somewhere, it absolves the parent of the responsibility of actually dealing with the problems.  I've said before here, many times that I've got experience from BOTH sides here.  I've been a kid in a program and I'm a parent of two teens.  I've been through a hellacious few years with my older one and there is NO WAY IN HELL I would allow her to be put into a program.  Hell, my ex tried.  He swore up and down that she was going to be deadinsaneorinjail if we didn't.  I said over my dead fucking body.  Surprise!!!!  She's doing pretty well now.  It wasn't easy by any means.  When she was 15 & 16 I had to clamp down hard on her.  That meant that I had to give up a huge part of my life to make sure that she was safe.  When she was 17 I had to begin to let her make her own mistakes and learn the natural consequences of them.  THAT was when the changes started to take place.  When trying to FORCE her behavior to change, it didn't work.  When I let her fall she began to realize that the way in which she was living her life wasn't working. I understand that that is an incredibly scary proposition for parents to consider, but the facts are that most kids grow out of their dangerous behaviors.



Now.  I'm off to Jax for the Super Bowl.  Eat your heart out guys!!! :wave:   Luv ya group! :grin:

They came with a Bible and their religion- stole our land, crushed our spirit... and now tell us we should be thankful to the 'Lord' for being saved.
--Chief Pontiac, American Indian Chieftain

"


 Whoa..."cool your jets", as we use to say.  Wasn't talking about an Intake... was referring to Sara's suggestion of locking up valuables when your child is stealing, verses dealing with them directly, and not just treating symptons.

  Have fun at the SuperBowl
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #506 on: February 04, 2005, 04:21:00 PM »
What an amazing discussion and a wonderful pile of people landed here.

D.C. I'm sorry if I came off like an ass earlier. Do read some of that material. And please feel welcome back anytime.

I can tell you that yes, you did make a mistake again. But I can see by what you've been through and how you're going about things now that you're doing your level best. Here's the big secret. This is what my dad hung onto deep in his gut because he'd get confronted for brining it up in Parent group. And this really helped me later.

All parents make mistakes. And there are no do overs. When you're sitting in parent group hearing about it, just remember this very reliable rule of logic; "Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc" is a falacy. Some of what you've done has not been a mistake. Some of whatever your daughter is dealing with has nothing to do w/ you at all.

One of the primary flaws in Program dogma is that whatever happened before intake was part of the problem and The ProgramĀ® alternative attitude or perception of things is the only right way. That deviation from that is a slippery slope to that horrible, terminal past life.

That's what breaks up so many families. That's the reason why I still don't talk to my mother. Because I split from 5th phase trainee and fought through the courts to stay out over 20 years ago, her only interest in me forevermore was in getting me back into a program.

My dad saw it differently (and got thrown out of the house for "trying to kill me" by not trying to get me back in). My best olddruggiefriend was my only real friend. When I got out, the first thing I did was look him up. His mom had pulled him from the Program too. We had not been allowed to talk for the two years I was in, including the year he was there. And we both desperately needed that old, reliable confidence and friendship we'd shared since toddlerhood.

When you're in the program, you have to accept the staff and group's assessments, follow their advice and believe as they do about yourself and about everything. There is no room for divinace or discussion of the matter, even when they're dead wrong. You agree and tow the line or your parents and Program approved friends will report you, kick you out, quit associating w/ you completely, etc.

I guarantee they made mistakes in their assessments and recomendations. If there's one thing that helped me more than anything, it was my dad rejecting Program authority and standing by me, even when he was sure I was acting the fool. Sometimes, I certainly was. But other times he and the Program had been wrong.

What's done is done now. Just don't ever let the Program come between you and your daughter. Given a choice at any time, follow your gut and take your daughter's side.

you Momma is a big fat's ________
--Leroy Brown

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #507 on: February 04, 2005, 04:24:00 PM »
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 Interesting. Appreciate you answering, with a minimal amount of condescension this time.

  So if she were stealing from you, would your answer still be to just lock up your stuff?"


You started the condescension, remember, Jewel?

If she were stealing, I would find out why, and not take "I don't know" for an answer.  We would talk about it, and then inform her what her consequences would be (probably paying back 150%, plus some restrictions - just the way it is in the real world).  Then I would hide the money (or whatever objects) until a certain amount of time had passed for the lesson to sink in, then gradually returning to keeping the money in their usual places, with a close eye on it.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #508 on: February 04, 2005, 04:29:00 PM »
Uhhh... in case you're wondering, I don't pick the quotes. They're random. Sometimes they're eerily apropo. Other times... well, it's disasterous. Sorry.

(Now let's see what Crazy Mac comes up with for this one)

If they can get you to ask the wrong questions they don't have to worry about the answers

--Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow (Proverbs for Paranoids)

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Offline Helena Handbasket

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« Reply #509 on: February 04, 2005, 05:27:00 PM »
Quote



 Whoa..."cool your jets", as we use to say.  Wasn't talking about an Intake... was referring to Sara's suggestion of locking up valuables when your child is stealing, verses dealing with them directly, and not just treating symptons.



  Have fun at the SuperBowl

"


By the way, the anon "spelling things out" was me.  I didn't think I had to.

I thought "dealing directly with the child" went without saying.  Of course you deal with the child directly - in EVERTHING.

Good God, if I told you "I went shopping today", would you wonder if I showered, brushed my teeth, got dressed and took the car keys with me?[ This Message was edited by: ~-=Sara=-~ on 2005-02-04 14:28 ]
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