Serious question about the Saints

[Antigen]

Seems I've raised considerable ire from some folks who 1) have a nasty reputation for dirty tricks and 2) identify themselves as Saints.

Like most towns, mine has a Kingdom Hall. And, occasionally, we get a knock on the door from a couple of them offering to share their faith w/ us. Last time this happened, instead of a couple of old ladies or college age kids, we got two 6'+ middle aged men. Rather odd, I thought. But that was before I got a load of some of the personal, hostile content directed toward me in another thread.

So I'm asking anyone who's well familiar w/ the Mormon Church for your thoughts. What is the likelihood that these people who are angry w/ me out in Utah or somewhere contacting the local Kindom Hall for a little help? And what would likely happen? Would they just take it on faith that the Saint making the request had very good reasons and oblige w/o question? Or are the outlying groups a little more skeptical and independent than that?

If you think about why you hate me, you might find that it's not me.
--Antigen

[Anonymous]

what was the direction of their questioning Ging?  Were they specific about why they were angry?

very interesting.

[Anonymous]

HI Ginger.
I don't believe there is any way the Mormons would ever ask the Wittnesses for any kind of assistance; And if they did; No way would the wittnesses comply. Each group sees the other as false and apostate; as indeed they both see All others. But there seems to be an extra dose of ranckor between the two groups that I have no explanation for.

You might have gotten a different set of witnesses just because the other pairings had no success.

Keep in mind, for the JWs, their salvation is based on their works - their wittnessing. They Must knock on your door and try and get in if they can, and convert you if they can. If they don't do this, they have no hope at all of salvation - Not that they have much anyway.
Its sad really.

There are several very good books on the subject of both groups. It really can be fasinating reading. You might want to read up if you have them at the door very often.

But I honestly do not think there is any chance the two groups are conspiring.
Altho - maybe the Mormons are lying? Claiming to be what they are not?
*That* Wouldn't surprize me.
Also, the Mormons do go door to door as well; and for the same reasons. Did they say they were from the watch tower society (JWs) or did you assume?

[Antigen]

On 2004-12-29 14:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"what was the direction of their questioning Ging?  Were they specific about why they were angry?



very interesting.



"

Maybe I wasn't clear in the way I explained it. The intimidating material is entirely on this website. Here's the thread I'm talking about

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=9&Sort=D

The guys who showed up at my door just didn't look like your typical missionaries. Too old, too big and bulky and just... carried themselves very like law enforcement officers. I wasn't here at the time, that was my husband's impression. They didn't have a chance to say much as Bill has little patience for door-to-door used god salesment. But they wore pins on their jackets that said something about Latter Day Saints or something.

Thanks for the info, anon! I had no idea there had been a split. I thought the Jehova's Wittnesses were part of the CLDS. So Kingdom Hall is a Wittnesses thing?

Also, I'm pretty sure that the guys (or women, who knows?) who are angry w/ me are not accepted members of either organization. It's my understanding that they're pretty much personna non grata, at least officially. But then, there they are operating w/ impunity out of Utah, so there must be some sort of cronniism or somthing despite the official severence.

If we had been born in Constantinople, then most of us would have said: "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet." If our parents had lived on the banks of the Ganges, we would have been worshipers of Siva, longing for the heaven of Nirvana.
--

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

[Anonymous]

//So Kingdom Hall is a Wittnesses thing?//
Yes indeed. And their literature will be from the Watch Tower society. They are in no way connected to the Latter Day Saints/ Mormons.
Most Mormon "churches" will be called the church of Jesus Christ's Latter Day Saints; or some such play on the same terms. Might say Re-organized Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints.

There are several split off branches of the LDS; and I think at least two of the JWs. So, your guys could well be some small branch of Mormons, un-reconized by the larger Salt Lake City bunch.
If it said, Latter Day Saint, on their lapel - what you had was Some sort of Mormon; and I would not be surprized if our Utah fiends asked them to check you out. They do help each other out and stick together like glue. Much can be overlooked if it is a "brother saint"; and even more if it is a rich one. Wealth and rightiousness are much intertwined in the mind of the Mormon. The idea being, God makes the rightious to proper. This is not at all Biblical, mind you, but it is deeply ingrained in the Mormon mind. And so - I can see it as entirely possible that your local LDS's might jump to do the bidding of a very wealthy (and so very rightious) fellow Mormon.
And they could well be cops, or even FBI. According to a book I read on the Salamander murders (aka the Mormon murders) there are a lot of Mormons in the FBI.
I'd suggest keeping your nose clean and not answering the door for any more strangers.

[Anonymous]

the link to the mad mormon thread didn't come up.
I'd like to take a look at it.

[Anonymous]

You just proved how little about the world you know and that your paranoid views of most of these programs. As others have said the mormans are not associated with kingdom hall they are jehovah witnesess, not mormans you are very simple.

[Anonymous]

First, it's Mormons, not Mormans.  Second, you're saying she's paranoid because she got two fucked up religions confused???  You GOTTA come up with something better than that!! :rofl:  :rofl:

[Antigen]

On 2004-12-29 16:53:00, Anonymous wrote:

"the link to the mad mormon thread didn't come up.

I'd like to take a look at it."

Sorry, forgot to paste it. Here it is:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=9&Sort=D

To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'> Thomas Jefferson

[Anonymous]

It would be unusual for Mormon missionaries to be middle-aged.  They are normally expected to do their obligatory two years of proselytising early in life.  It really creases me up when two spotty 19-year-olds in suits arrive on my doorstep wearing badges saying "Elder".

They may not have been real Saints or Witnesses.  If they carried themselves like cops they may have been private investigators hired to check you out.  It's no crime to impersonate a Saint.  What you need to worry about is what else are they doing.

[Anonymous]

It is NOT unusual for older "couples" (retired, married) to go on a mission. usually these couples go on welfare missions where they teach school, teach adults to read/write or act as guides at temples or LDS historial sites. Couple missionaries generally do NOT go door to door.

Are you parinoid?  Do you have reason to fear someone coming to your door?

 I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and have been all my life.  I also have JW"s knock on my door from time to time.  I always offer a Book of Mormon to them in exchange for their Watch Tower magazine. Usually they refuse it and leave quickly.

As for the FBI having many LDS people working for them that is probably true.  We don't smoke, drink, use drugs, and are generally honest. (As a whole that is what we believe. Of course, there are always the few who don't follow the word of wisdom and they are always the ones people remember.) Mormons are held to a higher standard.  No one seems to care if a Catholic or Methodist robs a bank or kills a family driving drunk.
Anyway, just a few thoughts.

[Antigen]

I'm actually not that worried about it. Just curious.

I did hear it through the grapevine that someone did pay a private investigator to find my home address; which is listed as my address of record in numerous public places. Oh, and for all that, they still didn't get my name right. Also a matter of public record. :rofl:

A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

[Anonymous]

The bulletin board at this site can provide some information and perspectives - I see some common issues.

http://www.exmormon.org

[Anonymous]

also might want to look at
Saints Alive & the Utah Lighthouse Ministry.

[Anonymous]

Ginger I sure do not know what you have done to cause others to want you found.  But just the thought of you being looked into makes me happy that I do not know who you are, and even more grateful that I have no association with you.   ::