Author Topic: The Source  (Read 1369 times)

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Offline cleveland

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The Source
« on: December 29, 2004, 02:10:00 PM »
I think we Seed kids tend to think of our experiences as unique. By reading other areas of this site, I've come to find that the Seed has been replicated and has many names. In fact, the whole thinking of the Seed permeates a lot of our self-help culture, especially in business and in seminars.

Well, if you want to be brought up to date, you can read The Source, a magazine that is full of canned testimonials from kids and parents who are involved in one of many locked-down, behaviour modification schools operating all over the world. It's like being at an Open Meeting! The content, language and attitudes are exactly the same!

http://www.thesource4parents.com/
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2004, 05:23:00 PM »
Hey Walley,
   Amazing, isn't it? But these programs didn't come from The Seed. CEDU was established in the mid `60's by a Mel Wasserman. No one seems too sure exactly what his connection was to Synanon, but he was open about basing CEDU on its philosophy.

  The WWASP programs (TeenHelp) go back to CEDU by some documentable connections. I don't remember offhand what they were, but I could look it up or you can ask someone w/ more knowledge about WWASP/CEDU if you're interested. Deborah is pretty good for reliable, verifiable info along those lines.

  Anyway, this is one of the real puzzles remaining. We can be pretty sure that Art didn't really dream up the Program all by himself. Just too damned many similarities to be coincidental. So then where did it come from? My best guess is that John Underwood was the Synanon influence. I don't know this to be fact, but everything fits; his age, his vague past (didn't get to staff from front row like everyone else) and the changes to the program that seemed to coorelate w/ his arrival.

  What do you think?

  Oh, and BTW, if anyone's up for reliving a comedown rap, there's a nice one going on at http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... forum=9&84 Around page 3 or so, a couple of WWASP supporters (possibly current staff or somehing) start to chime in. Interesting stuff!

I don't go lookin' for trouble. I just keep a little in a box should someone come by who is.
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Offline cleveland

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« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2004, 10:17:00 AM »
All of these 'program' ideas converge. Perhaps someone like John Underwood (he was always spoken of reverentially, though I never met him) provided the 'missing link' to Synanon. And the changes the Seed underwent, from kind of a hippy hangout with free food for the freaks and AA-type raps, to a full-bore 'behavior mod' program, seems to indicate this type of outside influence. Maybe someday, someone will 'fess up.

I have been trying to put my finger on the essence of all of these programs, and why they are so slippery - you know, seductive, and why people have such a hard time letting them go, being honest (even to themselves) about the experince, years later, and why, even critics have grudging admiration for them. I'm going to doa a separate post for that, at the risk of me being over-exposed on this forum. I have to get it out!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2004, 11:39:00 AM »
John U went through the program , just like everyone else.  I really don't think he went to any other program- unless a local one.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2004, 12:17:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-12-30 08:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

"John U went through the program , just like everyone else.  I really don't think he went to any other program- unless a local one. "


Were you there then?

Black markets will always be with us. But they will recede in importance when our public morality is consistent with our private one.


http://www.tatteredcover.com/NASApp/store/IndexJsp?s=showproduct&affiliateId=000095&isbn=0618334661' target='_new'>Eric Schlosser, Reefer Madness

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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2004, 08:49:00 PM »
I think he was not there when John came around.

Anyone currently posting remember John as a newcomer?
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Offline Tony Stark

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« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2004, 12:18:00 AM »
He treated me appropriatedly. Like the piece of shit I was, but not selfishly....he had a younger brother that he couldn't save and the only good thing John ever had to say to me was"You're off your program". He was not boring, He's spent time in other rehabs where they give you drugs instead of love. He arried later on and had a couple of children I heard. He wasn't boring. He was a man. A very strong man. :smokin:

People who are willing to give up freedom for the sake of short term security, deserve neither freedom nor security.

--Benjamin Franklin


Quote who you want. Still I had to be dealt with harshly for my crimes.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2004, 01:13:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-12-30 21:18:00, Harley Davidson wrote:

"He treated me appropriatedly. Like the piece of shit I was, but not selfishly....he had a younger brother that he couldn't save and the only good thing John ever had to say to me was"You're off your program". He was not boring, He's spent time in other rehabs where they give you drugs instead of love.


How do you know this? What drug rehab was he in?
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Offline Tony Stark

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« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2004, 01:56:00 PM »
I've kept in contact with Petermann throug my dealings with the LIFE program, and I paid attention n group to what he had to say. Outside of the blashphemy, I'd say He was a really up front sober-minded man when I knew him. He spoke his mind, whatever he knew about the drug-culture. I still remember his stories. He talked of methadone clinics. All the junkies I saw get straight at the Seed weren't on methadone to my knowledge. I believe they puked their guts out and got support. I wasn't with the apartment crew I was just a kid. 14 years old. He blew my shit away at an open meeting because I was going to blow al the rules and tell the parent's what really went on. He said"That's because you're a little kid and you don't want to grow-up."Then he told me to sit down. Next day it was encounter with Nick at group where  had to face my problems head on with the group. He was a sober-minded strong man too. I dont know anything about some kind of cult that the Seed was but I do know.......I learned how to get a high school diploma. I learned lessons calso from Dennis Novac. He is and was my Mentor all trhough my training at the Seed. My parent's worked for the St. Petersburg Times at the time I was in there. Art spoke to my parents before they accepted my intake. My mom said it was for publicity now. But my mom still thinks she's in the Straight Inc. Program because of my drunken dope addicted brother. She's Episcapal. Got a bunch of Idols. Really bad religion and she works at a treatment center called "Fairwinds"as a housekeeper. I hear all kinds of stories but I keep them to myself. I'm not involved with any denominaltional church or step program. I've got the Holy Bible and online communities to get my spiritual necessaties as of scripture and such. All because of Dennis Novac and his refering to certain bible passages that were in fact very real, but I never really knew any of the other members there. I was more neglected by te Seed community of peers as far as right and wrong. I depended on Staff members to help me and tell their stories and I just paid attention to them. The others I never really knew.I guess even Dennis spoke to me once about hoe he felt neglected also. It was a common thing there I guess. I kept busy wit my schoo work in the Seed since I had by-passed Jr. High school out in the woods, skipping out on school dropping acid. I had a lot of hard work to do. I didn't have time to get into my head. Running shit on my head was just about how long? How long do I have to stay in with these bunch of mad dogs called peers? I had enough problems in school with the other children just keeping away from all the non-sense. And when He said You're off your program" I knew I had been acknowledged for my work. I also had to work in a bakery besides school, and had extra-curricular activities such as school band that kept me off the street. But it wasn't the end of problems. The come each and everyday. I think one dayt at atime is the best way to handle it. That is a scritural referance I believe. If you read the gospols it's all there. I don't know what programs John Underwood was in but I do remember him saying...." If I ever get back to the point where I feel nothing, I'll go back to drugs." He was very honest and up front in his dealings with me, to the best of his ability. This I owe him not sparing the rod on my lifestyle at the time. Please forgive my spelling you have no spell-checker, and like i said I bypassed Jr.High school. Never read one book until I got out of the military. It was the bible Dennis Novac spoke of.  

To make certain that crime does not pay, the government should take it
over and try to run it

--G. Norman Collie


You don't have an arguement with me on that one. The government and our constitution is all we have, and self-governing should be taught in schools, instead of religion preferances. We have freedom from religion also, since I don't go from crackpot to the outward show of religion in their "churches". I thought this country was founded on having no religion. Sparation of church and state. Whoever thinks the Pope is the "Holy Father" or a bishop can heal you is a card still. It's totally absurd. We answer to our creator.  
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2005, 03:43:00 PM »
That is a long winded way of saying you really don't know, right?
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Offline Tony Stark

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« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2005, 08:22:00 PM »
I just witnesed to you about my involvement with John Underwood and if you think you know more about it than me anon, why don't you share you're involvement unless of course you were in head  so much in group you weren't paying attention. Then you would have missed every lesson that was taught. By people who only wanted to exit counter-culture.

It is the absolute right of the state to supervise the formation of public opinion.

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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2005, 09:00:00 PM »
Harley, if you are so sure John was in another rehab, why don't you tell us the name of it?
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Offline Tony Stark

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« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2005, 10:09:00 PM »
It probably wasn't a re-hab, just a methodone clinic. He spoke if it to the group often all about the substitute for heroin addicts. I don't remember him ever speaking of a re-hab. All I know is it didn't help at all.  

Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will [America's] heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

--John Quincy Adams, Speech to the U.S. House of Representatives [July 4, 1821]

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Offline Jimmy Cusick

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« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2005, 07:29:00 AM »
John Underwood was the most egotistical maniac I ever met at the seed. He was so smug and into himself. I remember when he married Pam(she was a babe) he acted like his shit didnt stink
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2005, 09:20:00 PM »
Was there more than one Pam on staff? Cause the one I remember (who was incredibly good looking) married my brother.

And do any of you know, for sure, to a dead certainty, that John Underwood was ever a newcomer at The Seed?

I was born a heretic. I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.
--Susan B. Anthony, U.S. reformer and suffragist

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes