Author Topic: Fresh blood  (Read 10177 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2005, 04:06:00 PM »
:nworthy:
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Offline marshall

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« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2005, 04:12:00 PM »
Plus, look at the whole episode that anon mentioned from outside the seed pov. Someone asks you for a cigarette. You refuse to give them one. They respond with 'Oh i get it you 're not suppose to give me one and someone is probably watching right? .' Whereupon you reply; "Fuck off."

Only a seedling could see this as standing up for yourself. A normal person would likely conclude that you are simply being a selfish jerk. I don't see anything in that exchange that warranted a 'fuck off'. (again, anon, this is not a personal criticism. I behaved the same way. It's how we were taught and expected to respond) When staff was asking us to do all of those things like mowing their yard, cleaning art's pool, running errands, etc. Where was all of that 'standing up for ourselves'?  When we were stood up and yelled at and called all sorts of horrible names, where was all of that self-respect? Why didn't we tell them to 'fuck off'? All of this stuff is just seed-defined.

Going along with your old friends is being into acceptance and not standing  up for yourself.
Going along with the group, staff or art...even when you might really have believed they were wrong....that's being a good seedling. Thinking of yourself as being 'cool' is just an image. Thinking of yourself as being 'straight' is not. A guy letting his hair grow long is doing it just to go along with the crowd because he's weak & into acceptance. The same guy cutting his hair at the seed isn't doing this to go along with the crowd or because he's weak and into acceptance. Using certain buzz words & phrases  before the seed is trying to be cool. Using certain seed-approved buzz words & phrases while at the seed isn't. Right.

Cleveland, I'm beginning to wonder if a certain personality type(s) was more prone to find the seed repressive than others. You and another here mentioned being an artist at some point. I took that up as well after the seed. Just as a hobby, portraits for friends and sold a few over the years. Do you suppose artistic types (whatever that may be) were more prone to reject seed ideology on some level?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path. You must climb towards the Truth. It cannot be \'stepped down\'

Offline cleveland

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« Reply #62 on: January 25, 2005, 04:25:00 PM »
Marshall, I'm with you 100%. I think different people responded differently to the Seed - there are some people that, at that age anyway, just wanted to be told what to do. There were other people that wanted to have power over others, some who just wanted to go along.

But I think there were others, who's idealism was used to get them involved. Like your post where you say Lybbi defended your 'peace, love and happiness' ideals. To me, the Seed seemed in some ways, like that 60s communal experience I dreamt of when I was in my teens. Saving the world was a very appealing ideal, and I think one that most 'artistic' types, 'who see the world not as it is, but as it should be,' would find appealing.

Post Seed, I love all types of art, music, crafts, cooking, whatever - anything that is creative. At the seed, I was very limited in expressing this impulse. I did a lot of cooking there, though, and learned to make plaintains, black beans and rice, and cuban chicken - courtesy of my newcomer Mandy. Also played a lot of ping pong!

I remember reading somewhere that intellegent people are suseptible to cults because they are able to see both sides of an issue. Personally I think the Seed went out of it's way to appeal to everybody, either thru fear, love, power, or idealism. Take your pick!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Ican'tTalktoYou

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« Reply #63 on: January 25, 2005, 04:47:00 PM »
Frankly, I repeated the seed repertoire down there when I was in school because I was scared of ending up back on the front row (which I eventually did later on....but that's another story).

Once I graduated the seed and went back to Jacksonville those words never passed my lips again.  No one in the sr. high school I went to had even heard of the seed.  However, I must add that I did not go to the school that I should have gone to, where all my old friends were going.  I transferred to a school across town.  I doubt that I would have told them I couldn?t talk to them either?..I just would have ended up on the front row again sooner than I did.

When I was in the seed in?73 there were not very many people from Jacksonville there?that I was aware of.
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Offline Fran

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« Reply #64 on: January 25, 2005, 08:11:00 PM »
Anon...
I have to say that because I was a seedling at that point of my life...I did not defend myself I took what was thrown at me. Do I blame the seed? I was told that I was not to talk with druggies...period. It was not free will mind you..it was "do not talk to druggies" I did not.
I was the perfect person to mind control..I was 13 years old for gosh sakes!! Yes the seed had alot to do with problems that I had encountered in school.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #65 on: January 25, 2005, 11:30:00 PM »
At Lakewood High in St Pete the saying was " The Seed Sucks!". I couldn't agree more. Too bad I was in panic mode as a little 15 year old girl and didn't dare have an opinion contrary to the seedling cult. It did in fact suck, didn't it? :silly:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #66 on: January 26, 2005, 02:00:00 PM »
Anonymous:  I was also at Lakewood between 1973 and 1977.  Before that, Baypoint Jr High and Elem.  Not a seedling, but perhaps we knew each other.  what year did you graduate? :grin:
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #67 on: January 26, 2005, 04:03:00 PM »
you were in my class, the class of 77. I left in 11th grade for ft lauderdale
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Offline marshall

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« Reply #68 on: January 26, 2005, 06:58:00 PM »
Cleveland / wally, I have a hard time comprehending how the seed functioned in it's later years. Maybe you or someone else from that time period can help fill in the blanks.  Without newcomers coming into the program I don't even see the point of keeping the doors open. How did it make any money? It seems it should have closed as soon as the last crop of newcomers graduated.  So, at some point everyone was off of their program and the seed was all oldtimers? Did they still have raps? I keep hearing how graduates had a relationship without permission from staff. That blows my mind. When I was there, if you graduated you were free to have a relationship at any time thereafter...no permission or approval needed. At graduation, you were finished with the seed and only continued to participate if you chose to do so. Most did not. In the later years, it sounds as if no-one ever really graduated. You were expected to stay and still be under the control of staff. The cultic aspects of the seed were already apparent when I was there in the 70's, but it seems that part grew stronger in the final years. I understand it became a small group again...like the very early days. Did art ever lead raps in the later years?

 I find the evolution of the seed from 'hippie love fest' as greg  or someone put it, to a large, strict,  synanon-type organization to a self-enclosed cult group that no longer even treated new drug abusers...fascinating. So, staff regarded unapproved relationships amongst graduates as 'back stabbing'? (BTW, I remember a Laura being on staff. Tall, dark-skinned gal. Very soft-spoken.) In the early years money wasn't a big issue. You could pay installments or on a sliding scale. No-one was turned away due to lack of funds.  It was that way when I was there. Then, at some point it became all cash up front or forget it. So many changes. Are there others that I'm missing?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path. You must climb towards the Truth. It cannot be \'stepped down\'

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #69 on: January 26, 2005, 07:49:00 PM »
i graduated lakewood in 75
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #70 on: January 26, 2005, 07:50:00 PM »
75
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #71 on: January 26, 2005, 11:05:00 PM »
Anonymous:  I had lots of friends in your class.  Jim Lilly, Paul Scherffius, Lynn Funk and many  others whose names escape me. I was always a little jealous of the seedlings as they seened to really have it together.  Funny how growing up changes the way you see things.  My parents would not admit I had a problem and let me flounder with it.  My druggie days ended at 20 when I ran into a car and really hurt a passenger in the other car.
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Offline cleveland

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« Reply #72 on: January 27, 2005, 10:47:00 AM »
Marshall,

The Seed was still taking in newcomers from '78 - '85, but it was at the rate of about 1 a month on average I would guess. Since it was voluntary only, they were typically siblings, or the courts recommended as an alternative for something. And, one of the consequences of this was that you were, if you chose to stick around, always on your program. Oldtimers were expected to work in Seed-approved jobs and live in Seed apartments, guys in one group, 'chicks' in another, and staff might move you from one apartment to another for whatever reason...you pooled money to pay the bills, but didn't contribute financially to the Seed itself. Graduates donated tons of time, though, because giving 100% of your non-work 'free time' to the Seed - doing errands, attending raps, giving newcomers a ride - was considered a privilege. Social activities were limited to Seed-sanctioned functions, usually endless games of baseball or football, with Art's team always winning. At home, if there was no newcomer, guys would work on cars, or mow lawns, or do carpentry, while girls would 'cook, clean or sew.' There were yearly 'talent shows' and kids would practice for those. I understand they got more and more elaborate as the years went by.

A few of the high-status graduates, usually staff, jr. staff, or ex-staff, started businesses. Some of them married in Seed-sanctioned ceremonies. These people hung out together in a tight group, and socialized with Art and his wife.

When the Seed broke up, (see elsewhere on this site) the Seed people scattered. By this time, most of the long-termers were married or established in businesses. A few of them even married non-Seed graduates.

I guess you could use the word 'cult,' but it seems to me to be more like an immigrant family with a strong patriarch - you know, a tight, closed family that rewards members with 'love,' but also exacts a price in loyalty and conformity. People who spent a long time at the Seed were different from the kids who went on the program, graduated and moved on.

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Wally Gator[ This Message was edited by: cleveland on 2005-01-27 07:49 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
ally Gator

Offline wtaylorg

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« Reply #73 on: January 27, 2005, 01:25:00 PM »
I agree with Cleveland. The seed I moved down to Ft Lauderdale to join in '82 was very different than the Seed I graduated from in '78. I went down there in '82  hoping to work construction (I thought all the guys in those days worked construction) and live in the houses. Well, when I arrived I was expecting to see a few hundred graduates like I had seen before. Instead, there were maybe 80. Most of the construction guys had moved along and I was told I would have to come into the Seed everyday. This really threw me because I didn't like the raps. I was told that now all oldtimers are basically always on their program as a way of life. It wasn't long before I was called ino tthe backoffice, not the last time either and told to either change my attitude or get my stuff together and they would drop me off at the airport. At that point Something inside of me told me they (staff) were full of shit and I thought "hey, you told me I could come down here and live as a graduate and now you're saying I can't". I thought "I'll show em". So, I decided to play the game and when I thought that the Seed loved me as much they ever did or could, "I'll leave". For whatever reason I wasn't gonna have them kick me out.
This took about 3 yrs. But, when I was driving my old oldsmobile up the road north, the day I left. I was never happier.

God bless Art!
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Offline cleveland

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« Reply #74 on: January 27, 2005, 01:48:00 PM »
Wtaylorg, you had the perspective of coming BACK to the Seed. For those of us there, when the Seed was transitioning away from a Program you graduated from to a lifestyle you never left, it was like that analogy of putting a frog in a pot and slowly raising the heat - the frog will never jump out, just slowly boil to death because it doesn't realize what's happening.

I can picture you in that gold-colored 60s car you inherited - I'm trying to remember when you left - was it before me? I left October 30th of 1985...
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