How about some damn ANSWERS.

[Perrigaud]

No. Wrong. I am not weak. If I was I'd blame everything on the program and say I had no control. I didn't give in. But if that's what you want to believe than go right ahead. I never said it saved my life. That's as bad as saying religion is full of brainwashing. Sure. Along with the media and so on. Please, if anything it has helped (not entirely) keep you and your kids safe from who I was. You would have hated to cross my path.

[Perrigaud]

That's right keep blaming the program.

[Anonymous]

You should be very proud of yourself perrigaud!
Don't let anything these people say get to you at all. Just laugh it off. We can see the truth and have both even admitted to these people we don't agree with everything, but do know it is better than were most of these kids would end up.
They however refuse to believe that anyone has been helped, just brainwashed. Well if i did have a kid and he or she was brianwashed to not do drugs and make better decisions then hey if that's what you call brainwashing fine. Lets do it to more kids that need help. There are allot of kids out there who's parents can't afford these schools and it's a shame. they do charge way to much! The one that cares

[Anonymous]

OP,R and R, The hobbit. Its all the same, used for punishment and Isolation

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-03 06:17:00, Perrigaud wrote:

" That's as bad as saying religion is full of brainwashing.

I won't even go there.  You're too young.

 

Please, if anything it has helped (not entirely) keep you and your kids safe from who I was. You would have hated to cross my path. "

Awww, go on with your bad self.  Don't kid yourself.  You weren't any worse than half the teens running around today.  Should we round all of them up too???

[Perrigaud]

Um, wish you could see my record. 10 of my friends are dead, disabled, or locked up for good. But yeah, I'm just like everyone else right?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-03 05:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I believe they only have OP in jamaica now, all the others have switched. All they do in the other schools now is have them sit in a room ith staff and other kids that are in trouble, untill they are ready to go work.They call it intervention room now.No OP unless you go to jamaica and then you still need to really screw up to be in thier."

I find that very hard to believe that WWASP has 'softened up' in any way. Besides, it doesn't matter what they call it, It's still solitary confinement and it's still wrong.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-03 06:17:00, Perrigaud wrote:

"No. Wrong. I am not weak. If I was I'd blame everything on the program and say I had no control.

WWASPie BULLSHIT!!!

You SHOULD blame the program, because the program is at fault! The fact that you don't means that you GAVE IN. You SURRENDERED.

And you didn't have control AT ALL, since WWASP controlled every aspect of your life, 24/7. Remember having to ask permission to open a door, or talk, or use the toilet, or get up, or sit down? Remember having to keep your head down at all times? Remember not being allowed to talk to other girls, at all? Remember not knowing anything about what was going on in the outside world?

WWASP still has so much control over you. Your actions and your thoughts. It is sad and scary to read what you write. You defend the people who murdered your soul.

I didn't give in.

You graduated, and you believe in the program. So, yes, you gave in.

Please, if anything it has helped (not entirely) keep you and your kids safe from who I was. You would have hated to cross my path. "

Yeah, yeah, I know, you were a horrible person, the scum of the earth, before the Holy Program stepped in and saved you. I've heard that bullshit thousands of times before.

[BuzzKill]

On 2005-01-03 05:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I believe they only have OP in jamaica now, all the others have switched. All they do in the other schools now is have them sit in a room ith staff and other kids that are in trouble, untill they are ready to go work.They call it intervention room now.No OP unless you go to jamaica and then you still need to really screw up to be in thier."

And who might you be to have such inside knowledge?
By inferance, this seems to be an addmission that OP/ r&r/ The Hobbit and so on, are "wrong". Abusive, even. So, why is it, Jay is still abusing the kids? And please define "really screwing up". In the past this has often ment no more than speaking a few words to someone - even as a courtisy or simple request. Does it now require a kid to shout or curse to get weeks or even months "on their face"?
I do a little doubt the pratice of forced stress positions, silence, hunger, forced extream exercise and lack of tolet breaks, with brutal restraint has been abandoned by the program - tho I would not be at all surprized if you have dicided its time for a name change.

[Anonymous]

Even if the Program has softened up,which would only happen do to the scrutiny they have been under.

Even if: the damage has been done to so many .

The predators should have been stopped years ago when the Kays knew what had happened.When they knew what was happening. No excuse ever will make up for the damage they have done.

How dare those low lives pepper spray a troubled kid. How dare they do what they did.

The same will come back to you!!

[Deborah]

***That's as bad as saying religion is full of brainwashing. Sure. Along with the media and so on.

There are many who feel religion is a form of brainwashing. Brainwashing = conditioning the thoughts and behaviors of others. One has to analyse the information presented and determine if it is inline with their values. If they have no values or independent thoughts, they are more suseptable for adopting the rhetoric presented.

The church I was forced to attend had music to set the tone. Songs that reminded the churchgoers of their pitiful, sinful nature and how their salvation was dependent on jesus. The message was fraught with fear mongering. Their interpretation of the bible was literal. Testimonies were given about how finding religion had saved one's life. People were pressured to walk down the aisle and make a public confession and accept jesus as their savior. Pressured to join the church and be loyal and faithful to that particular sect- ensuring that the church would receive 10% of their earnings.

The goal, keep people in a fearful state- believing in a sadistic god who can count the number of hairs on your head, who will judges your every action and determines your eternal fate, condition people to interpret the bible in such a way that benefits the institution of religion.

Are people forced against their will? Not usually in a physical way, although that has happened... but most definitely in a subtle, covert way. The preacher and followers will manipulate one's fear to keep them coming back and, of course, tithing.

It's quiet the racket and goes pretty much against everything that their 'lord jesus', who died for thier sins, taught.

And the media. Do you seriously believe that the media is not in total about conditioning/ brainwashing the masses. Yes, there may be a few exceptions, but every program, every commercial, every documentary has the power to condition the thinking of the masses. That racket is also extremely profitable.

I appreciate your right to believe that the program saved you. On a very gross level it may have, by simply removing you from the outside world and potentially dangerous behavior. Are there other, more respectful ways to accomplish the same. Yes. Some people are just not aware of them and see the program (and/or organized religion, not much difference) as the solution.

Same could be said about public education. I particularly resent that kids are not given accurate information in their text books. Read a history book lately? What vested interest do the authors have in re-writing history and conditioning young americans to believe their outright lies? Brainwashing? Conditioning? Yeh.
And to a large degree, kids are a captive audience since few have options such as private school or homeschool. Conditioning of the masses.

There aren't any new tricks, just different spins.

[Antigen]

Perrigaud,
  You say that kids were restrained for carving on themselves or acting out violently.

  I don't know about you, but I've never seen anyone carve on themselves outside of the Program. Have you? I know it happens, people don't usually do that sort of thing, except under extreme duress. Very few of the girls (and it was mostly an issue on the girls' side) never did that before entering the Program. Have you been able to talk to any of the girls you went through the program with enough to know when they started carving? If you ask around you might find that your experience is similar to mine in that regard. I know it's not exactly a light or pleasant topic of conversation. Especially around the holidays (which can be hard for some, especially those with past or present family troubles) but, if you're going to think about it, think about it from all angles.

  I note another similarity between you and me. I never fought either. Different reasons. I went in w/ the intention of proving that I was already straight enough and nothing they could do to me would make me loose my temper and help them pretend I was an animal. I'd had good training. I was picked on a lot by peers and older brothers and sisters as a kid and my dad had always taught me how to defend myself and how to know when violence is the only/best way to do that (practically never)
 
  But I saw what happened. Didn't have the same impact on me because my family had been involved w/ the Program for around 10 years. So I wasn't surprised by anything. Didn't even make a big deal about the strip search, so even that had little shock effect.

  Take any incident that you can remember of a kid getting restrained and put it in normal context. Pretend the staff are regular public school faculty, and the kids (including the one restrained) are all public school students. Would the same things happen? Would you view it the same?

  I mean, if I took someone out of their bed at night, flew them to some secluded place, strip searched them and enforced 'normal' program rules and routines on them, I'd expect to get knocked out somewhere along the line.

  What I saw happen, over and over again, were relatively normal kids pushed, prodded and antagonized to the point of losing their temper and then blamed for 'acting out' and even shamed for 'making' us sit on them.

  Can you say that any of these restraints that you saw could have happened the way they did out in the real world (where wittnesses have no strong incentive to cover up)

If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson

[Anonymous]

Antigen wrote: I don't know about you, but I've never seen anyone carve on themselves outside of the Program. Have you? I know it happens, people don't usually do that sort of thing, except under extreme duress. Very few of the girls (and it was mostly an issue on the girls' side) never did that before entering the Program...

This is an interesting link on self-abuse/cutting.  I know a girl who was admitted to Cross Creek for this.  She said it made her feel in control and feel good.  Hard for me to understand, but I don't doubt it.  This link also has a message board and also links to other informative links.

http://groups.msn.com/WhispersofAbuseSa ... abuse.msnw

[Deborah]

My son cut near the end and for a short time after returning from a military bm facility. Never before.
My perception of this is that it is misdirected anger- turned toward self. He was tortured on a daily basis. Came home after 6 months with 'PTSD'. I think this is more likely when a kid is abused and has no outlet for the anger and indignation they feel about what's happening to them. When they are abused and silenced- can not defend themselves. The anger has to come out, therefore it is directed at the only safe target there is, self. Compounding the issue, is a daily barrage of psych attacks, drilling one with the message that they are a miserable piece of shit, worthless, no one cares about them. He also mentioned at one point that he thought it was a way that he kept in touch with reality. Cutting forced him to feel when he really just wanted to zone out and be numb. He only did it when he was angry.
In the program, it was almost a ritual to toughen himself to abuse. To increase his tolerance to pain.
I think the self administered 'tatoo' which is done with a straight pen and ink, which was a program ritual, might have been his first introduction to cutting.

I can't imagine that a program is the 'cure' for cutting, as participation in a program caused my son to cut. I imagine the girls that might have cut prior to program, if there were any, were in pretty miserable situations and felt extremely  stifled and worthless.

[Perrigaud]

One more time for the dense person that keeps thinking I'm all about the program. Read the rest of my posts and get it through your head. So I had to do a lot of things that were about compliancy. Get it compliancy to the rules. The emotional stuff helped me. The program is not "holy". I never said that. I did say that it helped. Helped (not cured or healed). I took what I needed from it and threw away what I didn't. I don't blame the program. I have the self control to realize that it's not the programs fault. Whatever, no point in fighting what you say. I agree to disagree.
***********************************************
In my public school there were about 5 cutters I knew. Their parents tried to keep it hush hush. One of em was my close friend. She said it helped her feel in control and she liked it. I never understood that. In my school there was an incident where a kid started cutting his arm with an exacto knife 'cause he "felt like it". I don't know just how common it is.
What are your feelings about military school?[ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-01-05 05:37 ]