Author Topic: Write to Dr. Phil!!  (Read 20598 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2004, 12:47:00 AM »
Fact - Dr. Phil has a huge staff that checks out every nook and cranny of anything he recommends, including teen progams.  Do you think he's not aware of the allegations?  He's smart and so is his staff.  Do you think that he would recommend something that would potentially be dangerous to this troubled child and risk losing his show, the sale of his books and his career by recommending on national tv this girl go there?  Isn't his show part of the Oprah empire? Wouldn't that put her at risk also?  

Some don't like him.  That's okay.  He's not for everyone.  He might be telling people what he thinks they should do, but the ultimate decision is up to them, not their child or dr. Phil.

I didn't see him twisting the parents arms. I saw parents that were relieved that their just might be some help for the child they love.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #46 on: December 05, 2004, 07:23:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-12-04 21:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Fact ..."

Fiction
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #47 on: December 05, 2004, 11:33:00 AM »
BULLSHIT.

http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsnz.html#provocanyon

They didn't check a god damn thing. More than likely  PCS cut a deal with the guy for publicity. I know almost factually they didn't check, because if I can find out about that, a bunch of 'experts' could at least as easily, couldn't they?

Also, yeah, it is a money making empire. He just found 'treatment' and read what their brochure/website said and threw her out.

And no, he didn't LITERALLY twist their arms, but he manipulated their emotions into sending their kids away or "they could end up in jail or worse" and "you need to be strong" and "when they're older they will go 'mom, why didn't you do this for me'". I'd call that SOMETHING... its certainly not *NOTHING*.

Ultimately, though, its all just YOU saying it. I seriously doubt you have a damn thing to do with Dr. Phil besides being a fan of his. Its not like we're gonna see any proof of this either way - the industry at LARGE likes to hide proof. You NEVER, EVER see in the brochures, websites, testimonials, ANYTHING, about their ACTUAL METHODS For this treatment! The only actual detailed facts of the program come from those who tend to say 'bad' about it.

Chew on that for a minute.

We must create an atmosphere where the crooked cop fears the honest cop, and not the other way around.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006JU7T/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Frank Serpico

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #48 on: December 05, 2004, 12:01:00 PM »
PCS probably is giving the girl free therapy. They are in desparate need of good publicity right now.  Their lawyers have been demanding web-masters to shut down survivor sites.  They are threatening to sue those who have been tortured for using their First Ammendment rights to warn others in an effort to prevent other children from suffering similar abuse.  
It would be interesting to know what the patient census is right now.

Pray for the children who are there now.  Many will not be able to be with their families for the holidays.  They have not earned that right yet.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #49 on: December 05, 2004, 12:05:00 PM »
What, so they actually are capable of real therapy?

I figured they'd give her the same treatment (if not worse to break her faster) as everybody else. As long as she gets up on stage and says "it helped her", gave no specifics, hugged her mom, said she's sorry, and the most important thing of all - CRIES -  it will make for good TV and make PCS look good.

By the way - why on earth would some treatment center that does so much good have to silence its critics? Hmm? Why not give details about what the treatment IS instead of counter specific accusations with generalized excuses? I've yet to see a detailed account of what PCS actually does!!! just "therapy" and "nuturing environment" and "sructure". Crap like that doesn't mean a damn thing.

Being sleepy can impair someone's ability to do thier job.  People
can sleep at home and come to the job with sleepiness still in their system. The sleepiness can still be there long after the employee has slept. When someone is found to be sleepy on the job, they can claim that they went to sleep the night before.  The only solution to this problem is to ban employees from sleeping.

--Arthur Slabosky

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #50 on: December 05, 2004, 12:15:00 PM »
True - his forum does not support the first ammendment - it looks like the only comments allowed are those from Dr. Phil's fan club members. No other opinions allowed other than those that support what Phil says....


Just like the Program BBS.

"Every body Loves me; No body Hates me; I'm going to fix the world." could be the man's mantra.
Wonder if he's ever considered the possibility he's less than perfect?

I don't know that the man has a team of experts - unless you mean a team of expert boot lickers who stroke his ego and cover his ass.

But, I do expect he knows these programs are controversial. I expect he knows kids have been killed and that many have been hurt. I expect he cares not. I expect he considers it the cost of doing business.

As for Oprah - she is a nice, big hearted, sweet natured woman- as far as one can tell; And very rich; However, that doesn't mean she is immune to flim flam; or blessed with wisdom or discernment. I do a little doubt she has much of either.

All only my personal opinion, of corse.
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Offline cherish wisdom

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« Reply #51 on: December 05, 2004, 12:21:00 PM »
PCS uses punitive behavior modification with confrontation. This is not disclosed on the website and is not disclosed verbally.
Parents are asked to sign documents giving them the right to use physical and chemical restraints if need be.  They are also asked to sign a document indicating that they will not hold PCS liable for any physical injury including death.  
They are also asked to sign a document indicating that they will pay for hunters to find their child if they escape.  
It's a scary document.  They prey on people who have reached the end of their rope.  They prey on those whose children are suicidal as a result of sexual assault, depression and other trauma.  

All are treated the same regardless of diagnosis. Depressed children are treated the same as those who are serious juvenile offenders.

Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will [America's] heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

--John Quincy Adams, Speech to the U.S. House of Representatives [July 4, 1821]

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If you lack wisdom ask of God and it shall be given to you.\"

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2004, 08:08:00 PM »
I know of several people who have tried to post infomation about Provo Canyon School on the Phil site - all of the posts were censored off.  I also wrote a generic letter regarding the lack of regulation of teen residential programs - that also was censored and not posted.  

So what is the use?  The Phil site will not post any type of message that may cast doubt on the teen industry. :flame:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2004, 09:36:00 AM »
The thing to do in a case like this is tell his advertisers.
Pay attention to who pays for adds on his show - write and tell THEM what the goon is promoting - and make it clear what they are thereby supporting - and make it clear you will boycott them as a result. Make it clear you will encourage others to do the same.
I suggest you explain the extream cencering of his board; and that you did try to reason with him.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2004, 11:15:00 AM »
Now waitaminute.

Freedom of the press belongs to those who own presses.

The first amendment protects you from *Government* censorship---it doesn't say every Tom, Dick and Harry (or Phil) with a press has to foot the bill to print *your* speeches, rants, essays, poetry, etc.

You have the right to say what you want--you don't have the right to demand that others pay for it.

None of us here has the *right* to post our opinions on Ginger's forum.  *Ginger* graciously chooses to pay for an open forum to discuss the teen "help" industry because *she* believes such an open discussion is important enough to the welfare of teens that she is personally willing to fund that discussion and take the time to support it---even paying her time and money to provide a forum for people who disagree with her position.

She doesn't *have* to.  She *chooses* to.  And gets mega kudos in my book for doing it.

*I*, on the other hand, am an unpaid moderator (read: censor) on my publisher's webboard.

I, personally, censor things that break the rules of the guy paying the freight for that message board.

One of the reasons I'm willing to do that is because places like Usenet, that are truly open forums for discussions of anything by anyone, exist.

The people who frequent my publisher's webboard do so *because* there are censors like me who weed out flaming, trolling, and non-PG-13 content.  And weed out the webboard accounts of habitual offenders.

Freedom of speech means that the government can't prosecute you for what you say, and that you can pay your money to say whatever you like, and that you can say whatever you like in public forums like the town square, or where people like Ginger choose to pay for a place for you to speak freely.

Freedom of speech doesn't give you any right to the jurisdiction over someone else's ears.  If someone else doesn't want to hear what you (or I) have to say, they have the right to avoid us.

"Dr. Phil" has no obligation, moral or otherwise, to pay for a place for you, me, or anyone else to expound.  If he pays for a podium, he has the right to decide who and what he's going to allow to speak from that podium.

I think his opinions are wrong and dangerous---but he has a right to have those opinions, and he has a right to express those opinions, and he has a right to choose not to fund the expression of contrary opinions on his own site---or, more to the point, his employers or whoever is paying for the site has a right to choose what expressions they fund and what they don't.

If they don't want to pay for the storage of yours, mine, or someone else's screeds on their servers, they certainly have the right to choose to delete those screeds from their own systems or from the space they rent on commercial systems.

Believe you me that if WWASPS or other RTC's posted advertisements on my publisher's website that, advertisements being a violation of the rules there, I would *certainly* delete those posts.  And I would delete the user accounts that posted those ads from my publisher's message board system.

And if someone was advocating for RTCs in a way that I felt was harmful, I'd certainly try to persuade my boss that those posts *should* be against the rules and censored.  I don't know if he'd agree with me or not, but since I'm not paying the freight, I just interpret and enforce the rules and arbitrate whether a particular post breaches his rules or whether a particular poster is a habitual offender---I don't *make* the rules, and enforce them as best I can according to what I think the boss would do if he was reading the post in question, rather than what *I* want.

There is a reasonable place in civilized society for censors in privately funded spaces.  We protect the free association rights of people to decide for themselves what they do and don't want to listen to.

You have freedom over your mouth, but you have freedom over your ears, too.  The next time you turn on a radio station and get to hear the style of music you tuned in for instead of a street preacher telling you you're going to hell, thank a censor.

Timoclea
(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed anywhere on Fornits are strictly my own and are *not* those of my publisher, who to my knowledge doesn't even read this board and is as much of an opinionated cuss as I am and almost *certainly* disagrees with me strongly on various issues, and agrees with me on others, and partially agrees and partially disagrees on many, and---you get the idea.  Blame *me* for my opinions if blame you must.)
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #55 on: December 09, 2004, 11:32:00 AM »
Who said he didn't have a right to censor his board?
Sure he does.
And, we have the right to tell his advertisers how displeased we are with his message and his censoring of our legitimate concerns.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #56 on: December 09, 2004, 11:52:00 AM »
It's call Guerilla Activism... and it works when other things don't.
For all intents and purposes, he is acting as an Ed Con and using his celebrity to promote the industry on national TV. I personally feel he has a responsibility to the public to present a balance of information, whether he is required by law to do so or not.
His sponser need to know there is more to the story than he is telling.
This is a morbid kinda thought, but it would be interesting to see how he'd handle the situation if one of the kids he refers was one who was killed.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #57 on: December 09, 2004, 01:31:00 PM »
I don't at all have a problem with you mailing and/or boycotting his sponsors over his decision.  My problem was with the guy who said, "He doesn't respect the First Amendment."

I deplore his positions, but I support his right to have them and to present them, exclusively if he so chooses, on his own site.

I *also* support your right to use *your* rights and freedoms and economic power to oppose his opinions and to present yours in open fora or fora you pay for (like your email, or "open" boards, or your own site, or a letter and a stamp).

*Personally* I think he's a jackass.

I just think people's rights to censor private spaces and to have jurisdiction over their own ears by choosing for themselves what they want to listen to, or view, or read are very important (obviously).   ::soapbox::  ::soapbox::  ::soapbox::

:smile:

Campaign away, by all means. :smile:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #58 on: December 09, 2004, 01:53:00 PM »
***I just think people's rights to censor private spaces and to have jurisdiction over their own ears by choosing for themselves what they want to listen to,

Is his message board a 'private' space? I consider a private space to be one in which you must be a member to post, like the program forums. They are not open to the public.

His forum is actually a public venue that he happens to provides, where the public is invited to comment on shows that he airs.

There have been a number of apparently reasonable people who have attempted to inform him and the public of legitimate concerns about a program he is promoting. He and/or his censors are not allowing that information to be shared with the public on that public venue. Why? Does he have a vested interest? Is he intentionally keeping important information from the public? Doesn't it seem reasonable that he would, at the very least, contact some of these people privately out of curiosity?

Certainly Phil has the jurisdiction over what he reads, but I highly doubt that he reads that forum to begin with. Have you? It's usually filled with boring blather. The question is, does he have a right to ignore warnings and keep it from the public.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2004, 11:31:00 PM »
Re: 'A vested interest'

The following was posted on another forum:

Dr. Phil McGraw aka Dr. Phil of NBC fame is founder of Pathways Lifestyle Management which is a spin off of Life Spring which is a manifestation of Resource Realizations which created the method of behavior modification used at World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools which is connected in many professional and social circles with the owners and operators of Provo Canyon School. It's bigger and much worse than we initially imagined. Act now! Join HEAL or contact me to get involved!
http://pub38.bravenet.com/forum/3260195 ... ch/382256/

This article substantiates that he is the founder:
http://www.gopathways.org/dr_phil_mcgraw.htm

They offer Seminars and a Teen Camp
http://www.gopathways.org/tpages/teen_camp.htm
http://www.gopathways.org/tpages/teen_how_works.htm
http://www.gopathways.org/enterprise/cm ... f45e147#15

Comments and links here seem to support his involvement in est/Lifespring:
http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php ... a1ee21b105
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