Author Topic: How to Save a Troubled Kid?  (Read 7600 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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How to Save a Troubled Kid?
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2004, 07:27:00 PM »
"I don't know why someone can't chew gum outside of face to face meetings..."  Not everyone is as responsible as others.  They made the rule because those that chewed gum sometimes forgot they were even chewing it.  Hence, the no toleration policy.  

It's not about the gum...how many of you really get that?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2004, 08:07:00 PM »
So now we get to the crux of the issue-

***Not everyone is as responsible as others. They made the rule because those that chewed gum sometimes forgot they were even chewing it. Hence, the no toleration policy.

This ridiculous rule is really about the image of the corp. It also interferes with the employees opportunity to learn thru natural consequences- Go into a meeting with a potential client chewing gum, and you might not land the account.

People really are stupid, and thank god we have corporations for the adults and programs for the kids... to make the rules and keep us all in line. Because image and following the rules certainly is more important than living one's life and learning from experience. Not.

You're all afraid of the process. Well, let me tell you, there is no better teacher, and those lessons are real lessons one gains from trial and error, not from being subjected to irrational, arbitrary rules and consequences that are too harsh.

***It's not about the gum...how many of you really get that?

I don't think anyone who has responded didn't get that it's not about the gum, but idiotic rules that have no basis in reality. It's about consequences that are too severe for the 'crine'. It's about 'torture' for violation of those idiotic rules. You are the one that tried to justify the gum rule by stating your employer had a rule against it and that a violation resulted in a consequence, which I'm still trying to imagine what that might be. Coffee? Donuts? Leads? Insurance premiums not covered?
BTW, who narcs on the employee who forgets and goes into an appointment with gum in his/her mouth? Do you work in pairs so there is always a narc to report back violations?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2004, 09:48:00 PM »
From ny experience the Program was always manipulating and challenging the parents too.

Christmas or holday vistis would be pulled out from excited parents because the kid supposedly did an infraction. Parents were constanly made aware who really was in charge,who was calling the shots. The Program.

I saw it many time during the seminar process.I experienced it myself .
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2004, 12:38:00 AM »
I think it's about standing up for yourself and challenging a rule, instead of hiding out and not saying anything at all.   :wink:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2004, 02:21:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-11-17 21:38:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I think it's about standing up for yourself and challenging a rule, instead of hiding out and not saying anything at all.   :wink: "


You know, if these parents are so quick to make excuses for their child for breaking  a little rule, what the hell are they going to do differently with the BIG rules? It really was up to the son to tell dad "no" and be done with it.  He knew he was breaking a ground rule, so did the parents.  Wonder where else that is showing up in their lives.  You all can justify breaking a small rule that you don't agree with, but it doesn't matter.  The son is home now and away from the big bad program.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2004, 02:30:00 AM »
"But taking nothing for granted, the Carbens are instituting their own tough-love rules at home. "We'll have a lot more boundaries," says Mary. In the meantime, they have confiscated John's car keys."

Yea right!  Boundaries?  That's funny.

One thing that I noticed missing was that this reporter apparently was on campus at least a full day if not two.  What a better way to cry abuse than with a reporter right there!  Not one of the kids, even the lower levels...not one kid in the workshop.  What's up with that?  What a perfect opportunity!!!!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2004, 08:42:00 AM »
***You know, if these parents are so quick to make excuses for their child for breaking a little rule, what the hell are they going to do differently with the BIG rules?

I'm sure it's difficult for you to comprehend, but people really are capable of discerning the difference between breaking a 'small' arbitrary rule and a 'big' one.

***It really was up to the son to tell dad "no" and be done with it. He knew he was breaking a ground rule, so did the parents.

Wish they were here to speak for themselves, but the thought crossed my mind.... was this one of the program 'tests'... that went wrong. Was the parent told to offer the child gum to see if he'd decline. Then when the parents realized that he would loose all the points he'd accumulated for 5 months, they decided the program/methods were too rigid and irrational. Sounds like intelligence working there.

***You all can justify breaking a small rule that you don't agree with, but it doesn't matter.

You miss the point, for obvious reasons. Contrary to program think, it is a sign of higher intelligence when one ignores stupid rules that have no other purpose than to control and/or oppress unnecessarily. By rejecting the rule, the 'lesson' is then returned to its rightful owner- the control freak tyrant.

***The son is home now and away from the big bad program.

That's a good thing. Now he can return to learning about life by living life- making mistakes, perhaps big mistakes, and learning from them. Which is so much more desirable than him being stuck in a private prison where his only thoughts are to remember the 'list' of unreasonable and arbitary rules in order to avoid 'torture'.

You all are really big on people making 'choices'. This family 'chose' to remove their child. Why can't you move on and honor their choice? Oh yeh, there's a corp image to protect... I forgot. Which dictates the necessity of publicly implying that there is something fundamentally wrong with them and their choice.

My hope is that one day all you program groupies wake up to just how fearful and controlling you are, for the sake of future generations.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2004, 09:29:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-11-17 23:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2004-11-17 21:38:00, Anonymous wrote:


"I think it's about standing up for yourself and challenging a rule, instead of hiding out and not saying anything at all.   :wink: "




You know, if these parents are so quick to make excuses for their child for breaking  a little rule, what the hell are they going to do differently with the BIG rules? It really was up to the son to tell dad "no" and be done with it.  He knew he was breaking a ground rule, so did the parents.  Wonder where else that is showing up in their lives.  You all can justify breaking a small rule that you don't agree with, but it doesn't matter.  The son is home now and away from the big bad program.  "


That is such a foolish position.  

I routinely go five or ten miles over the speed limit, where I think it's safe for conditions.  But I've never murdered anyone, and if someone makes me mad I don't walk up and assault them.  I don't cheat on my taxes or shoplift.  I've never been convicted of anything other than minor traffic infractions---largely because I don't *do* those other things.

Contrary to your assumption, *most* people break stupid, small rules and *don't* break the big ones.

Being able to tell which rules are the small ones and which rules are the important ones is normal and healthy.

It's called having a sense of proportion.

Program idiots not having said sense is why most of us are upset with them, and why most of us believe that *most* normal people in society would be upset with the programs if said normal people were aware that the programs exist, that basically normal kids *are* getting sent to them, and aware of what the programs do to kids.

Having a sense of proportion is vital to being a mature enough, functional enough adult to responsibly, wisely raise children.

Five year olds have no sense of proportion.  They see a guy drop a piece of litter by the side of the road and think he should be put in jail.  It's a developmental thing, it's normal for their age, BUT--and here's the key---you're supposed to grow out of it.

Mature adults are supposed to know better.

People with a five year old's sense of justice shouldn't be raising kids.

Timoclea
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2004, 09:51:00 AM »
"Its not about the gum.  How many of you get that?"

Precisely the point -- it's all about the $6,000 or so that the Program gets for playing "gotcha" with the parents checkbook. Do you get that?
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Offline spots

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« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2004, 12:43:00 PM »
Quote
---it's all about the $6,000 or so that the Program gets for playing "gotcha" with the parents checkbook. Do you get that?"


Just as an aside, not really germaine to the discussion...

SCL costs about $3500 a month x 4+ months the kid was there = $14,000, plus the costs of the parents visiting Montana from wherever, plus the costs of attending the seminars required to be able to see their son at all (travel, lodging, food) plus the costs of collect long-distance phone calls (if allowed at all) plus the inflated costs of any medical, psychological, or extraneous services, plus the costs of $500 for toiletries used during his time there, plus the cost of uniforms and their laundering, plus the cost of the required deposit into the kid's "allowance fund" each month....

IOW, it cost a hell of a lot for some dumbshit to blast the kid for chewing gum.  Perhaps THAT was the overriding reason the parents decided to call it quits.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2004, 01:55:00 PM »
Yes, Spots.  That's what was said in an earlier post. I do think it was about the money.  They just decided that since they had seen some huge changes in their son, he'd had enough time and are justifying their "pulling" him by blaming it on being confronted with a broken rule.    

To the anon that breaks the speed limit.  That's still not the point.  The point is that the parents didn't CHALLENGE the rule, they just decided to break it and were confronted with it.  No favortism.  It's a ground rule that no food, including gum, is allowed in the room.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2004, 03:18:00 PM »
Good For Them!!
Control freaks need to have their cages rattled every once in a while.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2004, 12:24:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-11-16 08:32:00, Anonymous wrote:


What IS the rationale for the No Gum rule? Aren't there enough rules without concocting irrational ones?"


I remember when I was in both grade school and high school gum was not allowed.  If a student was caught chewing gum, we had to "wear" it. Has that changed?  I hope so!
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Offline Antigen

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How to Save a Troubled Kid?
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2004, 10:27:00 AM »
Aw, HELL yeah!

More from: http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/oct2004/od-15.htm
   
 
 
NIH Office of the Director (OD)  



 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Friday, October 15, 2004


Kelli Marciel
NIH Consensus Development Program
301-496-4819


Panel Finds that Scare Tactics for Violence Prevention are Harmful
Good news is that positive approaches show promise

Bethesda, Maryland ? Programs that rely on ?scare tactics? to prevent children and adolescents from engaging in violent behavior are not only ineffective, but may actually make the problem worse, according to an independent state-of-the-science panel convened this week by the National Institutes of Health (NIH). The panel, charged with assessing the available evidence on preventing violence and other health-risking behaviors in adolescents, announced today its assessment of the current research.

The panel found that group detention centers, boot camps, and other ?get tough? programs often exacerbate problems by grouping young people with delinquent tendencies, where the more sophisticated instruct the more naïve. Similarly, the practice of transferring juveniles to the adult judicial system can be counterproductive, resulting in greater violence among incarcerated youth.

?The good news is that a number of intervention programs have been demonstrated to be effective through randomized controlled trials,? explained Dr. Robert L. Johnson, Chair of the Department of Pediatrics at the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey, who chaired the state-of-the-science panel. ?We were pleased to find several programs that work, and we hope that communities will adopt them and continue to develop other interventions that incorporate the features common to successful programs.?

The panel highlighted two programs that are clearly effective in reducing arrests and out-of-home placements: Functional Family Therapy, and Multisystemic Therapy. Among the important characteristics that these programs have in common are a focus on developing social competency skills, a long-term approach, and family involvement.

The panel also identified strengths and weaknesses in the field of violence prevention research, and made a number of recommendations to shape future efforts. Among these, the panel advocated a national population-based adolescent violence registry, and greater emphasis on economic research into the cost-effectiveness of intervention to prevent violence.

The panel released its findings in a public session this morning, following two days of expert presentations and panel deliberations. The full text of the panel's draft statement will be available late today at http://consensus.nih.gov. The final version will be available at the same Web address in three to four weeks. Statements from past conferences and additional information about the NIH Consensus Development Program are also available at the Web site, or by calling 1-888-644-2667.

The panel is independent and its report is not a policy statement of the NIH or the Federal Government. The NIH Consensus Development Program, of which this conference is a part, was established in 1977 as a mechanism to judge controversial topics in medicine and public health in an unbiased, impartial manner. NIH has conducted 119 consensus development conferences, and 23 state-of-the-science (formerly "technology assessment") conferences, addressing a wide range of issues.

The conference was sponsored by the Office of Medical Applications of Research and the National Institute of Mental Health, of the NIH. Cosponsors included the Office of Behavioral and Social Sciences Research, the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, the National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institute of Nursing Research, the National Library of Medicine, the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, the U.S. Department of Education, and the U.S. Department of Justice.

The 13-member panel included practitioners and researchers in community and family medicine, pediatrics, nursing, psychiatry, behavioral health, economics, juvenile justice, outcomes research, and a public representative. The panel reviewed an extensive collection of scientific literature related to youth violence prevention, including a systematic literature review prepared by the Southern California Evidence-Based Practice Center, under contract with the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality. A summary of the Evidence Report on Preventing Violence and Related Health-Risking Social Behaviors in Adolescents is available at http://www.ahrq.gov/clinic/epcsums/adolvisum.htm.

The archived webcast of the conference sessions will be available shortly at http://consensus.nih.gov/.

Note to TV Editors: The news conference at 2 p.m. today will be broadcast live via satellite on the following coordinates:

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2004, 11:07:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-11-22 07:27:00, Antigen wrote:

"Aw, HELL yeah!




The panel highlighted two programs that are clearly effective in reducing arrests and out-of-home placements: Functional Family Therapy, and Multisystemic Therapy. Among the important characteristics that these programs have in common are a focus on developing social competency skills, a long-term approach, and family involvement.




WWASPS - includes a long term approach, building social competency skills and HUGE family involvement!  Great news!
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