Author Topic: Whats the deal with the whole emotional-distress (with eupho  (Read 5939 times)

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Offline Nihilanthic

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Whats the deal with the whole emotional-distress (with eupho
« on: October 04, 2004, 04:21:00 PM »
I keep seeing all these damn seminars and retreats and camps where "everyone cries" and you all "bond" and its "life changing" and they're generally secretive about it and very tired for a week afterwards.

And it amounts to little more than making you tell all your personal stuff, everyone breaks down emotionally and freaks out, and it lasts for most of the day for a few days.

And then there are these programs which do it for a much longer period of time.

Whats the freaking point? Is the suffering the 'growth'? Is the euphoria what makes it good? Why do we need emotional attack-therapy to get better? Why does *EVERYONE* have something buried that needs to be fixed?

P.S. - the reason I wrote this is because two of my friends going to a private school in california have to do some kairos thing, and I found out this is basically what its like. No contact with outside world in the retreat for 4 days and the whole crying/bonding/buried issues shit the whole time, your 'faith is deepened' and you get 'closer to god'.

Argh.

There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy.
--George Washington

[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2004-10-04 13:21 ]
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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Whats the deal with the whole emotional-distress (with eupho
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2004, 04:36:00 PM »
closer to "the program" which thinks and acts like it's "god".

sitting in a dark room w/ 100 plus emotional parents, beating on a chair, looking for their "magical child".

while their children are locked up hundreds of miles away going through their version of the in-your-face, junkie, whore, slut, "your parents hate you" formated "seminar"!

oh, sign me up mister seminar man?
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Offline Anonymous

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Whats the deal with the whole emotional-distress (with eupho
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2004, 05:26:00 PM »
Um I wasn't for the seminars.

Read my post again.

I was asking what the deal was and why they do it and why they think its okay.

I *certainly* do not think its okay.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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Whats the deal with the whole emotional-distress (with eupho
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2004, 05:27:00 PM »
that was me, forgot to log in

I tried not to work for, you know, anyone who ate children with their bare hands. I won't pretend that I was ideologically consistent.


--Dick Morris; Political consultant for Bill Clinton, Trent Lott and Tom Ridge

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline suspended heart

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Whats the deal with the whole emotional-distress (with eupho
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2004, 05:39:00 PM »
To answer you Nihilanthic, the seminars are designed to break your spirit under the guise of real truth and the freedom you get from purging it.
Remember ... the parents are there because they feel they messed up so badly with their children, so they are willing to take the abuse in order to do better.
The kids on the other hand don't really have a choice to walk out. Well... they can but ultimately they know they have to go through it if they are going to get out of there.

After your spirit is crushed (face it we pretty much all have some crap back there no matter how saintly you've been but is that so terrible? We are humans and that is how humans learn) you are put back together via their code, then you are loved up so you just feel so happy you made it through.
This then culminates with a bond similar to those who have been through a horrendous experience together i.e. a tragedy, a war etc... thereby insuring you stay the course through intricate peer pressure and the knowledge your kid is going through the same thing . This puts you effectively at the programs disposal and you and the other parents and kids form a formidable force that only reinforces your new world and language.
It is brain washing and you don't know it. All you know is you want to be a good parent and you want your kid to get better.

I can honestly say that there are a few things that I learned that were positive and helpful to this day. However those are things that you can learn in other ways, much kinder and gentler.
 I also have since learned many better ways to cope and survive and rise above what otherwise bogs me down in a healthy positive fashion, not one that has left me with the wounds the seminars inflict.

It makes my skin crawl to think about it again and it's been 6 plus years.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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Whats the deal with the whole emotional-distress (with eupho
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2004, 06:38:00 PM »
Ok, now I want to ask something about that kind of seminar... not just the ones the programs do necessarily

I'm asking about this 4 day retreat caled Kairos for my friends in that private catholic school.

They use teh same methods I guess.. they make you talk about your personal stuff, everyone cries and has a breakdown, and then you get euphoric at the end of it.

Supposedly to 'face your issues' and have a 'life changing experience' and get 'closer to god' and have a 'deeper faith' or some shit.

What possible good could come of that?

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345371984/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> Douglas Adams, _Last Chance to See_

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline inochi

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Whats the deal with the whole emotional-distress (with eupho
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2004, 06:51:00 PM »
im going on that retreat thing tomorrow. may be i am just blissfully unaware about the retreat im going on, but i'm still not convinced that it will screw with me. nihilanthic has told me about the possible risks, but i don't think i have to be that worried. i won't allow them to play with my emotions if it does come to that. the only strange thing that i find about it is that you can't bring any reading material or electronic equipment like a cd player or alarm clock. 4 days at a retreat center ..... all i can say is ... boring. don't worry about me nihi! it's a fast 4 days!
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those who no nothing, doubt nothing.\"
-confucious

Offline suspended heart

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Whats the deal with the whole emotional-distress (with eupho
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2004, 07:01:00 PM »
I don't know anything about kairos. Never heard of it.

If this is a christian group it's probably different although likely to be the same tatics.

Had god been rammed down my throat as part of the seminars, that alone would have made me leave and pull my son out but hey... that's because I'm not religious.

You know it's easy to add or subtract to this stuff and still have it apply to any group.

Just remember:
A brain can be washed and unwashed. Just my opinion.
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Offline Anonymous

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Whats the deal with the whole emotional-distress (with eupho
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2004, 09:35:00 PM »
What it is with seminar sales tactics, seminar inductions into multi-level-marketing schemes, seminars about movements like fringe Christian movements, the Moonies, and pretty much any high-control group with a charismatic leader or leaders that sucks you in to do things that are not always *genuinely* in your best interests as observed by a hypothetical objective, reasonable person is this:

They need to get past your abstract reasoning faculties and your bullshit detector, and to do that they have to induce a highly suggestible, highly receptive state in you.

One of the ways different organizations do that is with certain kinds of mood music, colors, letting you get kindof hungry and thirsty and then providing sugary drinks and snacks---the sugar rush makes you more suggestible.  Talking while looking you intently in the eye (or it looks like they are---frequently they're talking to the bridge of your nose to keep you from having the same effect on them).  Using disapproval to induce a breakdown, and encoraging a chain reaction in everyone in the room by "love bombing" the first and subsequent guys who break down---what you have to do is have a large enough group that *somebody* is already hanging on by their fingernails, eh?

By having a high degree of physical control over seminar participants---ie, participants commit in advance to stay for the whole thing, or a set period of time, they can bring a lot more factors in to set the conditions for optimum suggestibility.

Then once they have your rational faculties and your bullshit detector disengaged, they can put in place pretty much whatever ideology they want.

Oh, and the people leading the seminar, or presented as "success stories" are snappily dressed, bright, confident, competent---they're walking commercials with all their human faults and insecurities and problems air-brushed over for the seminar----and they'll tell you all about how horrible their "before" picture was.

It's the same song and dance, but a *lot* of cult-type ideologies use it, and even otherwise very sensible and practical people are vulnerable to it.  *Anybody* can fall prey to it.

So the trick to avoiding it happening to you is never attend anything like that, and if you ever find yourself in attendance at something like that, particularly where someone tries to get you to agree, in advance, to stay for a certain period of time no matter what----Leave Immediately.

(The exception would be licensed professionals running an adult rehab program with a squeaky-clean reputation if you really, really needed rehab.  The tactics can be used for good as well as for evil---but never trust *anyone* in these where part of the object is you shelling out large sums of money---as is the case with "fix your teen" programs.  They want your child's college fund and the equity in your house and anything else you can scrape together.)

Going to *anybody's* stay-for-three-days seminar is like going up to Kobe Bryant's hotel room.

You're likely to get analagous results.

Timoclea
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Offline Anonymous

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Whats the deal with the whole emotional-distress (with eupho
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2004, 11:16:00 PM »
Found this on wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kairos#

 Kairos is the time which cannot be measured, the perfect time, the qualitative time, the perfect moment, the "now", the being.

It differs from chronos (kronos), which is the time that can be measured for example in seconds, minutes, hours, days.

Many Catholic churches and Catholic schools have "Kairos Spiritual Retreats." In this sense, kairos is adapted to mean "God's time," as per the Bible.

No one should make you share what you really do not wish to share!
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Offline Anonymous

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Whats the deal with the whole emotional-distress (with eupho
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2004, 11:21:00 PM »
I went to a similar type retreat with co-workers in a major corporation.  Tough stuff, but funny how we are all working in a once "me" environment to a team that supports each other and created some incredible results.  And, no, it's not sales.  This is nothing new or cultish.  We go our separate ways at 5 pm.  Not one person has used what was shared as a weapon.  One woman who was so closed off you couldn't get her to see alternatives.  It was her way or no way.  Her creativity and laughter flow...even after two years. It was a gift to learn what what can really do while the rest of the world said we couldn't.  New exercises are done at team meetings to keep it fresh.  

They're being brainwashed and don't know it???  I guess people are basically gullible and stupid and can't leave if they aren't liking it?  I wasn't tied to a post.
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Offline inochi

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Whats the deal with the whole emotional-distress (with eupho
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2004, 11:56:00 PM »
see nihi! nothing to worry about okay. it's a GOOD retreat! everyone's intentions are good!

(talk to you in a couple days. i'll tell you what happens okay?)
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those who no nothing, doubt nothing.\"
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Offline BuzzKill

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Whats the deal with the whole emotional-distress (with eupho
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2004, 11:57:00 PM »
Its the pull of the group that ties you to the post.
Ya know - people won't even get up and fetch a donutt if no one else is standing up to get an offered donutt. They'll sit at the table and stare at their hands - and if asked one at a time would you like to go get a donutt, each in turn will decline any disire for a donutt. But soon as the one bold person says, Yes, I think I'll have a donutt; and stands up to go get one - the rest will follow; happily snatching up donutts they moments before wanted none of. Actual studies have been done.
Its the idea of being alone. Of doing something everyone else will laugh at or frown upon.
The average person will not stand up and walk out of an unpleasent situation if they feel they will be all alone in doing so.
This is the power of the group and the price we pay for being social creatures.
Its why we tend to sit threw brainwashing and why group think keeps it effective; no matter how intelligent we might be.
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Offline spots

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Whats the deal with the whole emotional-distress (with eupho
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2004, 12:22:00 AM »
Last night, a 60 Minutes segment was about young people in the workplace...young, being 20's, early 30's.  When CEO's were asked what single issue would identify this generation, it was resounding "team mentality".  This was a definite negative to the employers, in that their younger hires could not think singly, creatively, and were so group oriented that they couldn't function alone.

The CEO's felt these "Echo Boomers" had spent their young lives working in groups, following the main-idea doctrines, and just being so politically correct that innovation was gone.  They seemed to have a short burst of thought, then slink back quickly into conformity.  They have grown up with team play, team teaching, testing to achieve the same average score in standardized tests, and an attitude of complete sameness of the group.  We've all been there... when you are trying to point out a person in a crowd, but would die before you note that person is the only one of 100 with skin of a different color.

The corporate super-achievers are worried.  Where will the innovators, the inventors, the "run 'em over at any cost" business leaders come from in the future?  Not from any marketing and sales seminars.
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Offline BuzzKill

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Whats the deal with the whole emotional-distress (with eupho
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2004, 01:13:00 AM »
. . . Gently they go, the beautiful, the tender, the kind;
Quietly they go, the intelligent, the witty, the brave.
I know.
But I do not approve.
And I a not resigned.

Edna St. Vincent Millay

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