What about the kids who don't have a "choice" ??

[kcadams1980]

The bottom line and most important point about the seminars is this - we, the program kids, DID NOT HAVE A CHOICE whether or not we wanted to be subjected to the sadistic, manipulative TASKS practices.  And don't give me that bullshit about how we could "choose out" if we wanted to.  What kind of choice is this: Choice A - DO NOT complete the seminars and never move up in the program, and consequently, NEVER GO HOME, or Choice B - Submit to the barrage of abuse and mean-spiritedness until David Gilcrease feels that you are ready to "work" (and they everyone will love you, YAY!), complete the seminars, move up in the program & eventually (when the program thinks your good and ready, or your parents have run out of cash) you will get to GO HOME.  This is not a real choice! This is coercion & brainwashing! To be brutally honest, I really don't care about what goes on in the parent seminars - if an adult, of their own free will, elects to put themselves through that process, good for them - at least they can get up and walk out if they want to.  I also don't believe for a second that the parent seminars were near as cruel & sadistic as the ones that we had to endure in the program.  And Anon, just for your information, I was at Cross Creek Manor for 18 months, I stayed past my 18th birthday to complete the program (another "choice" that was never really a choice), and was  considered to be such a "success story" that CCM chose me to be a guest on the Sally J. Raphael show to talk about how I had been "saved" by the program.  It's been over five years since I've graduated, and I'm just now finding the courage to really speak out and take action against this evil (sorry if that sounds a bit melodramatic, but it's how I feel right now) organization - how's that for brainwashing?? Oh yes, and my parents and one of my younger brothers completed all the seminars as well - Discovery, Focus & Visions - and they still think that the seminars & the program in general was God's Gift.  Unfortunately,  they (my parents, but not my brother) CHOOSE to give their allegiance to a bunch of strangers over their own child.  I would like to thanks WWASP, Resource Realizations, Teen Help, Cross Creek Manor, ASI & any other of this organization's aliases for creating this permanent rift in our family - to be honest, I don't know if my parents & I will EVER be okay.  If you're okay with the probability of this scenario taking place in YOUR family then, by all means, keep going to the seminars & keep your child in the program.  Just don't be surprised when the months/years of WWASP/TASKS conditioning breaks down & your child realizes the gravity of what he/she has been through.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-09-26 09:07:00, kcadams1980 wrote:

"The bottom line and most important point about the seminars is this - we, the program kids, DID NOT HAVE A CHOICE whether or not we wanted to be subjected to the sadistic, manipulative TASKS practices.  And don't give me that bullshit about how we could "choose out" if we wanted to.  What kind of choice is this: Choice A - DO NOT complete the seminars and never move up in the program, and consequently, NEVER GO HOME, or Choice B - Submit to the barrage of abuse and mean-spiritedness until David Gilcrease feels that you are ready to "work" (and they everyone will love you, YAY!), complete the seminars, move up in the program & eventually (when the program thinks your good and ready, or your parents have run out of cash) you will get to GO HOME.  This is not a real choice! This is coercion & brainwashing! To be brutally honest, I really don't care about what goes on in the parent seminars - if an adult, of their own free will, elects to put themselves through that process, good for them - at least they can get up and walk out if they want to.  I also don't believe for a second that the parent seminars were near as cruel & sadistic as the ones that we had to endure in the program.  And Anon, just for your information, I was at Cross Creek Manor for 18 months, I stayed past my 18th birthday to complete the program (another "choice" that was never really a choice), and was  considered to be such a "success story" that CCM chose me to be a guest on the Sally J. Raphael show to talk about how I had been "saved" by the program.  It's been over five years since I've graduated, and I'm just now finding the courage to really speak out and take action against this evil (sorry if that sounds a bit melodramatic, but it's how I feel right now) organization - how's that for brainwashing?? Oh yes, and my parents and one of my younger brothers completed all the seminars as well - Discovery, Focus & Visions - and they still think that the seminars & the program in general was God's Gift.  Unfortunately,  they (my parents, but not my brother) CHOOSE to give their allegiance to a bunch of strangers over their own child.  I would like to thanks WWASP, Resource Realizations, Teen Help, Cross Creek Manor, ASI & any other of this organization's aliases for creating this permanent rift in our family - to be honest, I don't know if my parents & I will EVER be okay.  If you're okay with the probability of this scenario taking place in YOUR family then, by all means, keep going to the seminars & keep your child in the program.  Just don't be surprised when the months/years of WWASP/TASKS conditioning breaks down & your child realizes the gravity of what he/she has been through.  "

Ma'am, you are a perfect example of why when some kid comes on here singing the program's praises and just got out a couple of months ago, I say, "Come back when you've been out for five years."

I've got a friend who is now in the "the school was bad sometimes but in some ways it helped me" mindset.  She's been out less than a month.  Other friends don't seem to understand that this feeling she has now may well change as she gets time and distance, a reacquaintance with the real world, and a feeling of safety in her new adulthood.

She doesn't turn 18 for a couple of weeks.  In her shoes, *I'd* be saying positive things about the program, too----at least until my 18th b'day.  Possibly until I was out of college and didn't need my parents to cough up tuition.

That sounds cold and cynical, I know, but unfortunately all the financial aid is built on your parents paying for your education if they can---so if you have rich parents, if they don't cough up, you don't get college----where if you had *no* parents, you'd get financial aid to go.

I knew a *lot* of kids in college who were putting on a pleasant face to placate rich but obnoxious parents until they could graduate and get out from under them.

Timoclea

[Anonymous]

I agree, I said too that the school I was at was bad sometimes but it overall helped me.  God I ws such a brainwashed fool!  It's been 5 years and out of college that I do realize what actually happend to me!

[Anonymous]

On 2004-09-26 09:07:00, kcadams1980 wrote:

"I stayed past my 18th birthday to complete the program (another "choice" that was never really a choice), and was  considered to be such a "success story" that CCM chose me to be a guest on the Sally J. Raphael show to talk about how I had been "saved" by the program.  It's been over five years since I've graduated, and I'm just now finding the courage to really speak out and take action against this evil"

That's understandable, they didn't really give any of us much choice to leave at 18. It's scary to willingly become a bumb overnight! That is crazy you went on Sally talking about how good the program is. It's crazy how effective their 'brainwashing' is! Thanks for coming out with the truth. I agree, it takes time to digest such a strange experience.

[Antigen]

And welcome (back*) both of you. Anon, please do register a username so we can better understand who said what. I'm very interested in finding out more about CCM. It's always been my contention that the mental mind games are, by far and away, the most damaging long term and also the strongest common thread that distinguishes the Program (as usually discussed here) from actual  beneficial, nonabusive therapy.



*check the date, kcadams1980 hasn't posted since Sept of last year. I'm gonna see if she left a valid email address and let her know someone's answered her post.

The only voluntary urine sample they'll get from me is a taste test
--Bumper Sticker

[cherish wisdom]

One of the things that must be done to make programs more accountable ( I'd like to see them done away with entirely - but I don't think that's going to happen soon) is to push legislators in states to allow child abuse victims to have at least five years AFTER they turn 18 to report abuse and sue for civil damages.
I'd like to see this done in Utah, Montana and other states that have a prolific teen industry. As it stands now - in Utah - children have only 4 years after the abuse occurs. So if a 12 year old suffers abuse in a facility for a year. That child must make a claim or report by the time they are 16 years old.

They also need to need to allow daily visitation hours, daily phone call times, pay phones and child-abuse lines to enable children to report any abuse they witness or experience.  If these programs are opened up to the public like legitamate hospitals then some of the abuse will end.  Students should be able to receive and make phone calls at certain times of the day.  Cutting them off from the world is part of the problem.  As a result of these practices the children are extremely vulnerable to all types of abuse.

That it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism.
--Thomas Henry Huxley, English biologist

[Janet]

Ginger,  

Could kcadams be the Kelly Adams who spoke recently on the Annie Armen show?  Maybe they have some way to communicate with Kelly.

[FightingIrish]

The parents think it's a success story until 3yrs or better down the line. The kids really start realizing that the treatment they received was not ok. I hope more people that have been in the programs start speaking out so they can start healing. I'm sorry your parents are behind this program and not you. I was really angry when I see first hand how these parents are brainwashed. I can only say that in some of these cases Parents worried so much about their children and probably had been through alot that they themselves were victims and very vulnerable at the time they placed their kids. Most of them ran off right away to the "Long seminars" lack of sleep, in some cases I heard that breaks were not very long either, homework after midnight sets them up for brainwashing I think. I can't believe so many parents don't question half this stuff. Oh well, I'm glad I was able to see before I got sucked into this.

[kcadams1980]

Hey everyone - wow, it's been quite awhile since I've been on this board... I was cleaning out my email (I'm REALLY bad about keeping up with that!) and saw a message from someone here that people were responding to this post I put up months ago... And yes, I am the same Kelly Adams that spoke on Annie Armen's show (someone asked that).  It's really nice to hear from others who have been through similar experiences that can relate to me on the "delayed realizations" that occurred months/years after I graduated from Cross Creek.  It took me a long time to stop making excuses for the Program and my parents as well.  The thing that makes WWASP's programs so insidious is how they get into your mind/psyche on such a deep level. After months of constantly being yelled at, degraded & abused (emotionally and/or physically) they turn around and hug you, tell you everything is okay and that you're a beautiful person, etc, etc... You come to love them - and have a very fierce loyalty to them as well! This is why SO many of us are so incredibly conflicted when we come out - we feel like we're betraying them (the Program) if we speak out about the abuse!! I'm not saying that every single staff person at a WWASP program is inherently evil, but just because your therapist/staff may have been nice at times, does not excuse the terrible injustice that was inflicted upon us there!! Everyone stay strong - it does get better!

Kelly