Author Topic: FORMER CEDU STAFF  (Read 34164 times)

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Offline manchester

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« Reply #105 on: September 21, 2004, 02:38:00 AM »
O2, please spell "does" correctly. Your unwillingness to spell this one word correctly is very convincing - as to you being O5, as well. If you are masquerading as a "dyslexic" you may be motivated to continue making this spelling error.

I don't have time to wade through the thousands of words your mother wrote. I don't have time to read them, even. She spends a lot of time reading here, writing, and analyzing writing styles. Even if she reads and types very quickly, it is a phenomenal amount of time. You can read every word of all of her posts and find her threats. We all saw them and she knows she wrote them.

I didn't see a question about boundaries. Boundaries, put simply, refer to one's ability to separate oneself from others emotionally. She is so wrapped up in this website and in arguing and putting us down, that she is showing signs of having poor boundaries. I know she spends an awful lot of time here. She has to. No one can do as much work as she does here without spending lots of time. I have better things to do with my time.

I did work at CEDU and left because I could not be a part of the emotional abuse that they put the kids through. We were told in our training that the CEDU system was based on Synanon. Synanon is abusive and inappropriate. I am not personally bitter against CEDU. I'm angry over how they treated the kids.  There's a difference. I wouldn't return there for any amount of money.

I am glad that your brother did well there. I hope that all kids do from now on. That would be great.

I don't want to fight with you. You are a kid. I'm glad you're aligned with your mother. No one loves you like your parents.  


Quote
On 2004-09-20 19:00:00, Ottawa2 wrote:

"Bryan you really need to do some more research before you rant! Dyslexia come in differant forms and degrees. I myself have a mild case. And I have worked hard over the years to improve my spelling. Really I feel very sorry for you if you can not tell that my mother and I are two diffrent people.



SOS: My mother will get back to you when she has the time. Unlike some people on this site she dose not have all the time in the world to spend arguing with a random person on a unknown web site.



Manchester: I would really like to know where my mother said these things. But since you can not produce them...

Anyway you didn't answer my questions about "boundries". Please do.

Hey were you ever working at CEDU? Cuz I have a feeling that you are just bitter at them for some reason (hey no one likes being let go.*shrug*)

 :wave: [ This Message was edited by: Ottawa2 on 2004-09-20 19:01 ]"
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Offline manchester

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« Reply #106 on: September 21, 2004, 02:39:00 AM »
Why are you ignoring my challenge that you print EVERY post you've put here and show them to your school? I believe you are not really in school. You have too much time. And I am CERTAIN that your school would be very concerned if they saw EVERY post you placed here. I would.
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Offline blownawaytheidahoway

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« Reply #107 on: September 21, 2004, 09:27:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-09-20 19:25:00, ottawa5 wrote:

"Of course I would oppose sexual contact between students and staff at any school that caters to minor children.



And fondling a student is wrong--I do not include such normal interactions as touching, hugging within the concept of "fondling"---- really, do we have to de-construct normal, human relations???
 



I will also get back to you later on, with reference to your longer, detailed quiz on what I think is useful at CEDU, I am only here now because my little daughter brought your recent, rather strange, post to my attention.



But, all in all, you have to get over this preoccupation that my daughter and me are the same people, it was funny at first, but can't you, even in an internet format, see that this is a silly idea?



"


Roses are Red
violets are blue
oh 5's schizophrenic...

and so is Ottowa2.


You can't con us. Fibs, dishonesty, refusing to admit to the truly FUCKED up effects of a program that tears kids minds apart and makes them doubt and hate themselves and others. We have to all try so hard not to offend you and your little daughter. ppppppppttttttttttt.
Ya...sure
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Life is a very wonderful thing.\' said Dr. Branom... \'The processes of life, the make- up of the human organism, who can fully understand these miracles?... What is happening to you now is what should happen to any normal healthy human organism...You are being made sane, you are being made healthy.
     \'That I will not have, \' I said, \'nor can understand at all. What you\'ve been doing is to make me feel very very ill.\'
                         -Anthony Burgess
                      A Clockwork Orange

Offline ottawa5

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« Reply #108 on: September 21, 2004, 10:19:00 AM »
Look, you sound like a clown to me, maybe you are a clinician--if so, I can see why CEDU booted you out--the lack of ethics is incredible.

And talk about boundaries--what makes you think that you have any right to demand anything at all of me??  I think I've made pretty clear that if you are really trained to do anything in the helping sciences, I have absolutely no confidence in your abilities or judgment (neither did the school apparently--that's why they canned you and you've been whining about it here, and I suppose elsewhere, ever since).

So seeing as I think this way about you, why would I take your advice or your whiney little "challenge" on anything??

And, as a practical matter, if I had decided to do anything that you suggested, I would certainly not report it here.  As you would know if you could read for content to any great degree, I am not here in any clinical role myself, thinking that to be ethically shady, and I will discuss neither my work or my education on these pages, any further than in the very general biographical terms by which I've introduced myself.

You, in short, are "full of prunes" as my grandmother used to say, I don't trust your ethics, your judgment, your opinion, you just seem very lame to me.

Contrary to your belief, I really don't spend much time here and I don't have an interest in debating the same repetitiouspoints over and over with you when I am. So run your silly little gambits on someone who takes you seriously, or more correctly someone who hasn't caught on to you yet. Or prepare to keep on being laughed at.  And ignored unless you can do better and be more original than your track record up to now suggests.



[ This Message was edited by: ottawa5 on 2004-09-21 07:19 ][ This Message was edited by: ottawa5 on 2004-09-21 07:26 ][ This Message was edited by: ottawa5 on 2004-09-21 07:27 ]
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Offline Pissed RMA Grad 90'

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« Reply #109 on: September 21, 2004, 10:42:00 AM »
What do you want? Do you really think that you will help the world with your own school. I think the world will be a worse place if you take anything but what you have learned HERE on this site about kids.
CEDU education may have been fine if you weren't trapped. If you chose to hear the "honesty". BTW the version of honesty that the school employs IS abuse. Period.
Please please don't think we even need you here. I think you are smart, but evil. CEDU bad. People who think CEDU good- bad. Bye.

First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0826400035/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> Gandhi

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Offline shanlea

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« Reply #110 on: September 21, 2004, 03:31:00 PM »
Ottawa, you are the very, very last person who should be talking to someone about their ethics at CEDU. The very organization you defend is rife with therapeutic corruption from it's foundation.

I wonder how long it will take for your own school to have a special slot here at Fornits?
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hanlea

Offline Deborah

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« Reply #111 on: September 21, 2004, 04:21:00 PM »
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline ottawa5

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« Reply #112 on: September 21, 2004, 04:46:00 PM »
I like it! This is the second emotocon-only message that I've seen from you recently. Keep up the good work.
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Offline CEDU IS A CULT

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« Reply #113 on: September 21, 2004, 05:27:00 PM »
I don't know.  Something about you Ottawa makes me just want to fucking pound your skull in over, and over, and over, and over, and over....Nah, I'd rather fist fuck ya.
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Offline Son Of Serbia

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« Reply #114 on: September 21, 2004, 05:31:00 PM »
Now why would you go off and ruin a perfectly
good hand fist fucking O5?  Just remember not to eat with that hand later.  Oh, and have fun cleaning out the cob webs!!! ::bwahaha::




.[ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-09-21 14:31 ]
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Offline CEDU IS A CULT

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« Reply #115 on: September 21, 2004, 05:44:00 PM »
Sorry, R, I wasn't thinking right.  Yeah, I was actually going to fist fuck her ass hole, but now that I think about it, I'd much rather ram my fist down her fucking throat and rip out her mangled and bruised tongue.

Nah, let's just bury her in a 55 gal. drum with concrete.  Watch, as an enlightening experiment, as  her facial expressions change while the concrete hardens, slowly restricting her breathing.

Let's enjoy the show as she slowly realizes the next breath is her last.

Fuck it, I'm going to do a little research and figure out where she lives...
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Offline ottawa5

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« Reply #116 on: September 21, 2004, 06:04:00 PM »
That is, in response to the post you addressed to me 9/17/04, 15:31:00.  You had asked me to consider whether I thought that a number of scenarios that you described were illegal; in term of some of the scenarios you also asked if I thought that there was an issue of ethicality.

Now let me repeat that I am not a lawyer, so what I say is based on what I've read or on what lawyers have told me.  

Some of the things you describe appear to me, on the basis of what I understand, to be in violation of the law.  For example, I think that in all states now, counsellors would be required to report child abuse.  I don't know when the scenario that you described occurred, or whether there were other factors (such as that the abuse report had already been investigated and found to be without merit). But in general, I believe that there is an ethical and a legal responsibility to report if you are in charge of a minor child and there is reason to suspect abuse.

Similarly, of course it would be illegal to purposely break a child's arm when the child was leaving without permission.  However, it would not, I don't think be illegal to restrain the child and if the arm was broken as part of this restraint, then it would come down to a question of fact as to whether this was an accident or a excessive use of restraint.

Now your reference to the Wilderness Challenge or to staying up all night for Propheets is puzzling.  When my son was there, this wasn't a problem and there was certainly food and water provided during that time.  As I understand it, kids wanted to go on the Wilderness Challenge, and if they were not allowed to, it was because they were being punished.  Same with the Propheets, I've heard them described as the best part of the program.  

I never heard of anyone being forced to participate in either but I'll ask my son about it, maybe it was done differently when he was there as opposed to when you were there. But whether it would be illegal or not,  I can't see how much therapeutic good could come from making a child participate until he or she was at the point of looking forward to these kinds of rituals--it sounds to me like the anticipation is part of the positive change that can occur.

I wouldn't think that it would be illegal to require other activities such as wood-chopping as part of the program--as long as basic academic education tasks are included in the curriculuum, the school would, I should think, meet state requirements.  You've got to remember that a lot of in-your-seat learning time in the pulbic schools is busy work, for example, a woman I know who home-schools finds that her kids spend a fraction of the time in terms of school hours on school work and still easily pass all required testing.

And I don't know why you couldn't read books for a period of time, I would guess that they thought that you were retreating into them in order to avoid participating in the program.  

I imagine that you could ban a child from reading under the law and if there was a cogent therapeutic reason, I wouldn't think that it would be unethical. In a CEDU school, whether you like it or not, a lot of this is about modifying behaviors (Deborah will have a conniption about that but it's true) and so it isn't just about academics, it's about changing patterns that the child is using to avoid facing things that must be faced in terms of normal functioning.

Can a private school discriminate on the basis of religion?  I don't know but I think they may be able to, certainly Catholic schools sometimes let in non-Catholic students and do not provide non-Catholic services. I wouldn't think it would be a good idea though, we never had that during my son's time at RMA.  I think that the school could require you to speak a certain language, again I'm not clear on the reason for it, maybe they thought that you were using the different language to isolate yourself from the program.
Were your parents OK with speaking to you in English on visits, and what explanation did they give you for it?

And in terms of using racial slurs, or self-disclosing examples that you give, I imagine that these things would be legal, as a part of the raps, but I would have to know more about the context to say whether I thought that it sounded helpful. Same with the counsellor who claimed to have molested a 13 yeear old--more information would be necessary to know if hiring was legal: what was his age at the time, how much time had passed.  Whether it was wise for the school to employ him would depend on these and other factors such as what he has done since, in terms of becoming a different person.

I don't know if I have addressed all your scenarios, and I realize that you weren't really asking for my opinion in particularly good faith, but considering these different situations was interesting.  It does illustrated the complexities of mixing educational-therapeutic elements in setting like a CEDU school.  There is certainly a need to consider the least coercive way to move a self-destructive child in a better direction, while being aware that some coercion is always going to be needed, given the nature of the population being addressed.
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Offline manchester

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« Reply #117 on: September 21, 2004, 07:13:00 PM »
I never said I was fired by CEDU. Interesting...

You are ignoring my noting that your school would be alarmed at your extensive AND histrionic posts. God, woman - you need help. I have done nothing unethical here.

You are making assumptions about who I am. I have no idea what you are thinking. You need help. Period. There is something REALLY wrong with you.


Quote
On 2004-09-21 07:19:00, ottawa5 wrote:

"



Look, you sound like a clown to me, maybe you are a clinician--if so, I can see why CEDU booted you out--the lack of ethics is incredible.



And talk about boundaries--what makes you think that you have any right to demand anything at all of me??  I think I've made pretty clear that if you are really trained to do anything in the helping sciences, I have absolutely no confidence in your abilities or judgment (neither did the school apparently--that's why they canned you and you've been whining about it here, and I suppose elsewhere, ever since).



So seeing as I think this way about you, why would I take your advice or your whiney little "challenge" on anything??



And, as a practical matter, if I had decided to do anything that you suggested, I would certainly not report it here.  As you would know if you could read for content to any great degree, I am not here in any clinical role myself, thinking that to be ethically shady, and I will discuss neither my work or my education on these pages, any further than in the very general biographical terms by which I've introduced myself.



You, in short, are "full of prunes" as my grandmother used to say, I don't trust your ethics, your judgment, your opinion, you just seem very lame to me.



Contrary to your belief, I really don't spend much time here and I don't have an interest in debating the same repetitiouspoints over and over with you when I am. So run your silly little gambits on someone who takes you seriously, or more correctly someone who hasn't caught on to you yet. Or prepare to keep on being laughed at.  And ignored unless you can do better and be more original than your track record up to now suggests.







[ This Message was edited by: ottawa5 on 2004-09-21 07:19 ][ This Message was edited by: ottawa5 on 2004-09-21 07:26 ][ This Message was edited by: ottawa5 on 2004-09-21 07:27 ]"
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Offline manchester

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« Reply #118 on: September 21, 2004, 07:14:00 PM »
No worries, Shanlea. She is lying. She is not in a clinical program and she'll never have a school. It's all bullshit.

Oh, did you notice how O5 didn't realize that she misspelled a name? (Pixie) - she evidently thought she was logged in as O2. Interesting...


Quote
On 2004-09-21 12:31:00, shanlea wrote:

"Ottawa, you are the very, very last person who should be talking to someone about their ethics at CEDU. The very organization you defend is rife with therapeutic corruption from it's foundation.



I wonder how long it will take for your own school to have a special slot here at Fornits?"
[ This Message was edited by: manchester on 2004-09-21 16:17 ]
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Offline ottawa5

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« Reply #119 on: September 21, 2004, 08:11:00 PM »
As I have mentioned, I get contacted every few weeks by someone who has a child in trouble or who wants information from me about schools for someone who has a child in trouble.

Well I got one such call today.  I gave  my advice that RMA had worked very well for us and offered my son as a contact that represents a CEDU success story. However, I also mentioned this site and noted that it is frequented by some ex-students who hate the school. I gave the gentleman the web address and told him he should check it out.

What an interesting collection of posts he will see, representing people who hate CEDU.  

It will be quite a contrast to the way my son presents himself, that's for sure!

I also got contacted today by someone who is interested in opening an emotional-growth school and who is looking for partners.  

By the way, in case it is not clear, one does not have to have any kind of a degree to open such a school (Mel Wasserman was an example of that, you can always just hire a clinical director if you style the school in a way that requires such an internal post.

So things are moving along well, I may be able to get started on that project before I finish my other one.
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