How About This Theory

[Anonymous]

I definitely agree with the anger re: jabs and dismissal of our experiences, and that should be addressed, especially as it does not involve presuming stuff about their lives we know nothing about.

I couldn't imagine 4 years of incarceration -- 6 months was bad enough for me and affected me in a lasting manner.  I didn't even go through all the crazy propheet experiences my peers did throughout the program.  When I read the Straight threads, it sounds worse than CEDU... really fucked up. I can't even believe it exists--I mean no privacy or respite whatsoever from all that crazy drivel and physical control. I don't know how you would get over it, have any sense of boundaries in life when none of yours were respected... it makes me absolutely ill.

Has your mother ever read the Straight site to know exactly what you endured? Because a lot of that testimony is pretty freaking powerful.

[ehm]

On 2004-08-25 12:27:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Has your mother ever read the Straight site to know exactly what you endured? Because a lot of that testimony is pretty freaking powerful.  "

Not yet. She doesn't have a computer. I did show her a story on Roloff Rebekah Home for Girls in Corpus Christi, Texas while she was visiting, and she broke down and cried while reading the testimonial. The story struck a chord that had a very powerful effect on her, and she sat and said how sorry she was, relating it to my experiences. She's also seen http://www.thestraights.com and read many stories from ex-Straightlings through that resource. She later admitted to me. "I know that I have not been a good mother, and that I have made many mistakes that I am regretful for, and I?m sorry." That was an amazing thing for me to hear from her. I have forgiven my mother, but have not forgotten. And though I am speaking to her again, I?m still setting limits on our relationship, and am developing trust. My mother is not the safest person, and has many demons to face still, in the form of prescriptions, alcohol and general self-awareness. Forgiveness is the only way to have my own peace, and have any kind of relationship with her. It has taken almost 20 years for her to be able to come to these conclusions, and I know it is very humbling to admit to me her mistakes and regrets. Admitting you hurt someone you love is always very hard to do, but the sooner the better.  I just need to stop wanting a mom I don?t have, and accept the terms and conditions of the one I do have, and set boundaries accordingly.

Totalitarianism is like a specter which drinks the blood of the living and so achieves reality, while the victims go on existing as a mass of living corpses.

http://www.whitecloud.com/fight_vs_totalitarianism.htm' target='_new'>Karl Jaspers, The Fight Against Totalitarianism (1963)

[Antigen]

Re: O2

I spent nearly 10 years playing the part of the little sister while my brothers and sister went through The Seed. By the time I was 15, I was so damned good at delivering my lines, walking the tightrope... they should have sent me out on speaking engagements! But also, by that time, I wasn't really sure how much I actually believed the bullshit ther spewed so freely from my mouth and how much I was just posing to avoid landing up in the Program myself.

O2 can't win. The game is rigged. No matter how hard he/she tries to walk the straight and narrow, O5 will project the "signs" of [state your fear] onto him/her. But you can't blame him/her for trying.

As for the brother/son, put yourself in his shoes. Can you imagine voluntarily taking part in a social function based on the Program and already staked out by... well, me and my mom? I don't expect to hear from the guy for quite some time. I wish him the best and hope he's able to earn his degree, pass his boards and live a happy life as a dentist.

Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0807059099/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Mahatma Gandhi, My Autobigraphy, p. 446

[Ottawa2]

Man, I don't even know where to begin! I mean I want to respond to ever one so lets see here...

Shanlea: You are by far the sainest person on this site. I am very greatful that you respond with calm logic instead of insain rantings like some of the people on this site. Please continue to post!

SOS: Your logic still dose not make any sence if my mother did have that kind of control over my brother then she would be able to make him come to this site and post whatever she told him to. Instead he decieds not to come to this web site. Please explain this to me! If my brother was as you called him a coward then wouldnt he do whatever my mother said??
And its not just my brothers experience its his friends as well. However we are most fimillar with my brothers so we mainly use that as an example.

Anon: You seem to be a very logical person. Please contiune to post this site needs more sain people like you.

Lezli: My mother has nothing to prove she is here to gather information as she has stated several times. However people seem very unwilling to help her in any way to gather the information.
Anti: You have yet to answer my questions. Please do I really want to hear you answer.

BTW: If you guys have to sink to the level of personal attacks I think that says something about your side of the arrgument and about your self. As for the consern some of you have about me being a "clone copy" of my mother, I can tell you we are VERY diffrent from one another. (it would take to long to type everything out) but we both agree on this subject.
Oh, just to let ever one know Ill be working at my part time job a lot in the next week or so. So, I wont be able to post so often as I have been but I'll try!
Hope to talk you you all soon! :wave:

[shanlea]

Lezli: that was me who inquired about your Mom.
I am interested in how people communicate with their family about their experiences in these programs once realization sets in. It would be important they don't deny your experience to have any type of relationship with them. I've never really talked to my folks about it. I don't actually blame my parents for CEDU. They really thought it was a beautiful school that would help me finish school and improve my self esteem.

I will say that I am glad to come to this forum because I'm not as ignorant on these schools/ programs anymore.  I will be getting into education and this site has helped me be aware of different programs in case any parent asks for advice.  It is very easy to be lured in by nice brochures and an ed con. Also, before this forum, I didn't really look beyond the surface either in spite of the fact I went to CEDU. If someone said they sent their kid into a program called Straight for help with drugs, I might not have questioned it if it weren't for this site.  Now I know. So, it is important and reading through different sites have helped me make important realizations.

[shanlea]

SOS: I get why you disagree w/the Ottawas. (Disagree being a spectacular understatement) But I still think its better to not use CEDU tactics when dealing w/pro-CEDU folks.  Also, I don't think we should surmise O's son's reasons for NOT coming to the site. A lot of people would not be interested in this type of exchange and college is supposed to be fun (and hopefully a positive experience of self fulfillment after a more depending on how you see it--controlled or "structured" environment--such as CEDU). Don't you think its better to respond by talking of your experiences and insight rather than attack? I understand being pissed when you feel your experiences are undermined and that should be addressed.  You have a lot to say on the subject and I want people to hear it rather than be distracted by a pissing match.

[shanlea]

Thanks for the vote of confidence about my sanity. Now, if you would just try to convince my kids of the same thing!

Seriously, don't get too upset by some of the posts.  I understand it's natural to want a say when people are talking about you and your family...just like some of us want a say in our experiences in different programs.  We really didn't have a choice back then! But it's hard to always respond logically if you had a hellacious experience and you feel it is being denied. Also, some of us feel there were systemic problems inherent in these programs that can really lead to tremendous breaches of ethics on different levels.  Also, the fact that it is many years later and some of us are adults with children and responsibilities, we are evaluating this experience differently.  We have the advantage of hindsight.

[Son Of Serbia]

I explained my logic to you quite clearly in my last post, your brother is afraid to come to this site. I believe that he is mostly afraid of disagreeing with and offending Ottawa5 and this is why he won't post. I believe RMA whipped him so bad that he can't stand up to her.  Your brother does not live with your mother anymore, so no she can't actually force him to come on this site.  If he was still living under your mom's roof, then she most definately could force him to come here, but as I understand it, he now lives on his own. If you ever move out of the house and start paying your own bills, you will see that your mother will lose that degree of control over you as well.  None of this changes the fact that your brother is a big coward who can't stand up to his mother, he simply removed himself from her living environment so he doesn't have to deal with her on a daily basis.

O2, you definately are a poor carbon copy of your mother,and a very poor one at that. You lack her intelligence and ability to write in complete sentences.  You our not your own individual.  This is most evident by the fact that in all of your posts here, you have not expressed a single original thought or idea.  you simply regurgutate all of the cedu propaganda that your mom fills your empty head with.  Your basically a tape recorder. I truly feel sorry for you, this is not your fault, but it is a fact.

Seriously O2, get your own life.  I don't believe for a second that guys are into you, and that you stay single by choice.  I think you're a big loser, and no one asks you out probably because you are either ugly, a total geek, or your mother simply won't allow it!  

I hope that college will change all of this for you. Just be careful.  A lot of girls like you  grow up with repressive parents.  Once they go away to college and are no longer under their Mothers control, they go nuts. Most girls who have been repressed as long as you have don't know how to handle that much freedom once they get it. A great many of them wind up becoming total whores, drug addicts and/or alcoholics, flunking out of school, and often end up having unwanted pregnancies. Word of Advice: Take your new found freedom in moderation. Oh and if you still can't understand my logic about your brother, don't bother asking me to explain it again.  It'll only make you look even more stupid than you already do.

[Ottawa2]

SOS! All I can reallly do is shack my head I guess. Due to the fact that you know nothing about my life or my familys life I feel no need to go off on an insain rant like you like to do.
Lets see where do I begin?
How about you concern about me having original thoughts. Trust me I do, but on CEDU my mother and I agree 100% and since we both know the same people that went through CEDU of course our agruments are going to be similar! are you really that dumb that you could not figuer that one out???
And no you did not explain any thing you just called my brother a coward. Please do not reply untill you feel like actually explaing it. If my mother truely had that control over him (like you seem to think she dose) then she WOULD be able to bring him here.
I must ask you not to make comments about my spelling, writing ect. It is a very sensitive subject for me and I have allready told you why it is so poor. If you do not know what dyslexia is then go look it up. If your to lazy then well guess theres nothing I can do about someone like you.
Now, as for my dateing life. You seem very cconsered with it for some reason! Mind telling me why? I guess there is no way to prove that I chose to be single. I can just say that it is just that.
BTW VERY matuer of you to take personal shots at me. Do you really not have any other arguments? Maybe you should take a break untill you actually have somthing to say.
I am a greek nad proud of it!!! :grin:  
My mother is always very happy when I bring a guy home. I and just not curentlly dateing.
You have some seirous problems if you think that is ok to call a girl ugly it was one of those nice cheap shots that you like so much.
Shanlea: I can definatly understand why peole would be upset if someone denied what had happend to them. But, in my mothers post I do not remember her ever dening what had happend. In fact I remeber her say thing like, she was a ware of the abuise due to thing like uncalified staff ect. And thats why she would want to open her own school to make sure that thing like that would not happen. If she ever actually said something like "No, that did not happen to you you are just making it up!" Please tell me which post and I will have to trouble agreeing that she was wrong but untill then I will stand by my mothers side on this one.

[Ottawa2]

Oh one more thing SOS, wouldnt it be sad if I was an ungly girl with no friends who was suicidal? Now would that make you feel like a complete jackass?
(To all other posters: please excuse the cures.)

PS. Mean people suck! :wave:

[shanlea]

O2: I think it was more a case of feeling she glossed over some of our issues and didn't take it seriously.  That's all.


SOS: Your post was really mean, no two ways around it. You really can't assume that O's son is a coward just because he doesn't have the time or the inclination to come to this site; you can't assume O5 is a control freak; and you can't assume O2 is ugly or stupid.  Some of the smartest people in the world have dyslexia. I honestly don't know how you can rebel against CEDU but post as viciously as you do.

If the Os keep returning to the site you could possibly choose to answer them with rationale instead of insults. Or even sarcasm.  But there is no call for the names you call O2 and your prediction for her future college life.

What if someone said these things to your daughter?  This is exactly the kind of thing that happened in raps, for God's sake.

[ehm]

On 2004-08-25 20:02:00, shanlea wrote:

?Also, the fact that it is many years later and some of us are adults with children and responsibilities, we are evaluating this experience differently.  We have the advantage of hindsight.?

An excellent point, and you know what they say about hindsight being 20/20.

On 2004-08-26 07:52:00, Ottawa2 wrote:

PS. Mean people suck! :wave:  "

The difference is, you can turn off your computer. We had no escape. They ran our minds. Perhaps you're starting to understand.  

:wave:

[blownawaytheidahoway]

But I have to agree with Lezli on that last point. Not being able to leave was the very worse part. That is NOT a choice at that age.

[**PIXIE DUST**]

i would have to agree with Lezlie too.  you do have the choice to leave, we were forced to stay there.

Under the benign influence of our republican institutions, and the maintenance of peace with all nations whilst so many of them were engaged in bloody and wasteful wars, the fruits of a just policy were enjoyed in an unrivaled growth of our faculties and resources.
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/foundingdocs/inaugural/madison1stinaug.html' target='_new'>James Madison

[shanlea]

Well, we all have a choice to leave this forum if we don't like it.  And one of the positive attributes of this site is to engender debate and expand your thinking, but I still don't think it's cool to complain about abuses in these schools and turn around and abuse someone else.  We have a real opportunity to plant some seeds or build awareness and it's wasted when we act abusively. We should not deny our anger when we feel dismissed or mistreated; but I wouldn't want to perpetuate verbal abuse, either.