Springfied VA late 85, Stoughton MA 86

[Anonymous]

Couldn't help but notice all of this really interesting levels of rising BS in here... The anger after 20 years is also just a little bit frightening, but of course hippi, I did not go through what you went through and in fact I am only learning of your "trauma" thru this site.
I entered straight(Boston)in 88 at 15,  and to this day I have never again (thankfully)walked into a world as insane as that one.
Straight actually was a good experience for some (not me)and clearly (not you), but obviously at one point you did consider it so. Decades have passed, we have all lost loved ones, friends, welcomed new ones into the world and hopefully all changed for the better. After all we were just kids, institutionalized in one of the most fucked up places in the country. I see the experience for what it was now and check it back into the corner of my mind where issues of victimization and symptoms of ptsd reside because i am too busy to afford the luxery of feeling sorry for myself. I don't know you but I wish the best for you. Heres to a better 20 years, Hippi. ::cheers::

[Binky]

On 2006-03-31 04:00:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Couldn't help but notice all of this really interesting levels of rising BS in here... The anger after 20 years is also just a little bit frightening, but of course hippi, I did not go through what you went through and in fact I am only learning of your "trauma" thru this site.

I entered straight(Boston)in 88 at 15,  and to this day I have never again (thankfully)walked into a world as insane as that one.

Straight actually was a good experience for some (not me)and clearly (not you), but obviously at one point you did consider it so. Decades have passed, we have all lost loved ones, friends, welcomed new ones into the world and hopefully all changed for the better. After all we were just kids, institutionalized in one of the most fucked up places in the country. I see the experience for what it was now and check it back into the corner of my mind where issues of victimization and symptoms of ptsd reside because i am too busy to afford the luxery of feeling sorry for myself. I don't know you but I wish the best for you. Heres to a better 20 years, Hippi. ::cheers:: "

Brillinat! -- honestly - perfectly put!

We were kids...kids! - what the hell did we know?

I'm actually nervous about saying this - I'm afraid of getting attacked (just like in group - again) - but at what point do we take responsibility?

I see Damon has owned up to being an asshole -- shit - I remember him as the enforcer as it were - that was his role -- anyway - he's aware of it and from the sound of it makes no excuses fot it - he owns it - it would be so easy to blame others for his being that way - but he owns it

Here's where I'm big time afraid I'll get attacked - but I must say it - I don't see Matt taking any responsibility for his actions - and I see others on this post making excuses for him.

Before you jump all over me - this is just my perception on this - I know in group the unpopular view gets creamed, but I'm hoping to be heard and not attacked -

I was there in Stoughton - and I thought Matt was such a unique and interesting staffer - it was as if the winds of change had blown in to the building -- after all is said and done - Matt was in the wrong place at the wrong time -

Weren't we all?

I guess that depends on your character and the way you perceive life

For me - my life is better today - I still have my PTSD -- I know what my part was in the bad ballet that was Straight - both the good I did and the bad i did - those i helped and those I hurt - as well as those who helped and hurt me -

I take ownership and responsibility for all of it -

Matt - I'm scared to say this, but it just sounds like you're still so very bitter after all these years - and I'm sorry for that -

I was so psyched when you showed up -- I was amazed that we could sing American Pie and say Whisky & Rye instead of water and ice - I thought things were going to change for the better

I don't want you to read this and say see - I was screwed over - see the kids loved me -

I don't care about the back room politics - I don't care about the personality conflicts

You did what you did the same way that Damon did what he did and the same way i did what I did -- but you're the only one not owning it fully - and maybe once you just own it you can forgive yourself and what was done to you wont matter anymore -

I hope I don't attacked for this - but I guess I will - that's how it was in Straight and that's how it is on this board -- it's like Bizarro Straight...

[Ganja]

and maybe once you just own it you can forgive yourself and what was done to you wont matter anymore -

How would someone forgive themselves for what was done to them?

[Binky]

On 2006-03-31 06:33:00, Guest wrote:

"

and maybe once you just own it you can forgive yourself and what was done to you wont matter anymore -

How would someone forgive themselves for what was done to them?"

It's that ole take responsibility thing --

I think -- and again -- just me -- but I think Matt regrets a lot of the stuff he did as we all do and it's easier to look at the past from the perception of the victim, but if you look back as an active participant (as we all were) then it's a whole different game -

Example - and I'm using Damon only because we're talking about him, but this could be anyone...but what if Damon looked back and was like:

"Group and the job made me into that asshole - I was that way because that's what was expected of me and needed of me - It's not my fault - and the things I did were because of you and because of group"

What if those that ran Straight were like:

"This is all your fault and your parents fault for putting you in Straight. You're fault for doing drugs and your parents fault for seeking the help of total strangers...what kind of person lets their child be run by other kids, and shut off from the family...We did nothing wrong - we just provided a venue for YOU and those around you to do this to yourself"

Anyway -- Damon has taken responsibility for his actions - it's easier for him now to forgive himself and hence to forgive others -

I haven't read Damon blasting Matt or anyone else for things done to him - he never blamed us for him being the way he was in Straight - he owns it

There's a HUGE difference between a victim and an active participant -- NONE OF US HERE are victims we are all -- ALL OF US -- active partcipants in this.

We're not talking about about a newcomer that was molested by a host dad -- in this instance we're talking about a man who was in a bad living and bad working situation -- with choices and actions to make -

[Antigen]

On 2006-03-31 03:23:00, Nomad wrote:

"Eudora -



I didn't write that which you are giving me credit as the author. If you go back and read the thread, the Anonymous author claims to know me and my mother's artwork that was on the walls. I agree with your statement, FWIW.

Sorry, Damon. I suppose I should have taken a little more time to notice that. Just out of curiosity, how do you know who that particular anon is?

What is this new loyalty? It is, above all, conformity. It is the uncritical and unquestioning acceptance of America as it is. It rejects inquiry into the race question or socialized medicine or public housing, regards as heinous any challenge to what is called the system of private enterprise, identifying that system with Americanism. It abandons evolution, repudiates the once popular concept of progress, and regards America as a finished product, perfect and complete. The concept of loyalty as conformity is a false one. It is narrow and restrictive, denies freedom of thought and conscience... What do men know of loyalty who make a mockery of the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights?
http://www.harvardsquarelibrary.org/unitarians/commager.html' target='_new'>Henry Steele Commager, 1947

[Ganja]

NONE OF US HERE are victims

Really?

[Nomad]

Eudora -

No apology necessary, but thank you nonetheless. I haven't a clue as to who that particular Anon is, simply that they identified themselves as someone who knows me, one of my friends, and my mother's artwork. Only someone who was in Stoughton at the time I was would know that her paintings were on the walls.

D

[Binky]

On 2006-03-31 07:14:00, Guest wrote:

"

NONE OF US HERE are victims

Really?"

ONLY in the context of what we're talking about -- this thing with Damon and Matt -

I know that there are victims out there - and on this board - but of us "here" - and by here I mean in this chat -- in this conversation and this space - none of us (me, Matt, Damon, Paul) are purely victims - we're all active partcipants -

I don't know you -- but would have to assume that you are an active participant in your life - and not a victim - that's always my first assumption about people - that they are active participants in their choices and actions -

For me - I was 16 and put in Straight - but i don't consider myself a victim of that - the things that happened to me are not my "fault" -- but my response to them is --
In this chat - it's not Matt's fault that people conspired against him, not at all - but the choices he made are all his choices and his responsibility -

[Anonymous]

what happened to me was out of my control man....what happened after that,under the circumstances,was out of my control.....my "owning up" was going up there....i should've followed my gut feelings about it.....but i stupidily followed my dick....
i didn't go up there for the reasons you think...
i've never told anyone that....except one person,and i just told them today.....go ahead and bash me....it doesn't matter to me anymore.i know in my heart,what happened to me up there was wrong and there were many ppl involved....you guys say damon wasn't a part of it?..ok,but it sure was funny how he was "assigned" to watch me!
treat me like vermine and i've never forgot it.i have a great memory.....i remember details most ppl just don't remember about themselves.why am i mad? good lord dude,i just found out the truth what? 3 months ago?.....lol...who wouldn't be angry?....when i first came online,i thought i had dealt with all the past as good as i could....i wasn't the angry mess i have been lately......my first postings were informative not angry."owning up" to what?....i was never a "yeller" at straight....no,i always wanted to know why a person did whatever they did wrong....i wanted to help them sort it out.i got sat down a lot because i was percieved as weak to the "staff" in st.pete.......it wasn't till my last months in that place that i requested "pre-training" to be a staffer,and then it was my newcomers that convinced me to apply....i never applied while i was on my phases and not until i was 3 1/2 years done,did i apply to be a staffer!
i didn't do it because of reasons any of you think.funny,i get bashed for 5 weeks of staff...2 paychecks......and ppl like damon get no shit at all.neither does paul or anyone else i've seen on here that was on staff! i really believed i could help....make a difference etc....i never knew i was a joke and they were planning my departure BEFORE i ever came up!if it sounds like i'm angry,i am.thats cause i'm dealing with shit i never knew i had to deal with.........talking about my band and everything else right now is very trivial to me....as you staffers always said"don't avoid yourselves".....that,right now,is good advise....it wasn't way back when,but it sure is now,pertaining to all the shit you guys up in boston created for me!....i'm gone

[Binky]

On 2006-03-31 17:05:00, stillahippie564 wrote:

"what happened to me was out of my control man....what happened after that,under the circumstances,was out of my control.....my "owning up" was going up there....i should've followed my gut feelings about it.....but i stupidily followed my dick....

i didn't go up there for the reasons you think...

i've never told anyone that....except one person,and i just told them today.....go ahead and bash me....it doesn't matter to me anymore.i know in my heart,what happened to me up there was wrong and there were many ppl involved....you guys say damon wasn't a part of it?..ok,but it sure was funny how he was "assigned" to watch me!

treat me like vermine and i've never forgot it.i have a great memory.....i remember details most ppl just don't remember about themselves.why am i mad? good lord dude,i just found out the truth what? 3 months ago?.....lol...who wouldn't be angry?....when i first came online,i thought i had dealt with all the past as good as i could....i wasn't the angry mess i have been lately......my first postings were informative not angry."owning up" to what?....i was never a "yeller" at straight....no,i always wanted to know why a person did whatever they did wrong....i wanted to help them sort it out.i got sat down a lot because i was percieved as weak to the "staff" in st.pete.......it wasn't till my last months in that place that i requested "pre-training" to be a staffer,and then it was my newcomers that convinced me to apply....i never applied while i was on my phases and not until i was 3 1/2 years done,did i apply to be a staffer!

i didn't do it because of reasons any of you think.funny,i get bashed for 5 weeks of staff...2 paychecks......and ppl like damon get no shit at all.neither does paul or anyone else i've seen on here that was on staff! i really believed i could help....make a difference etc....i never knew i was a joke and they were planning my departure BEFORE i ever came up!if it sounds like i'm angry,i am.thats cause i'm dealing with shit i never knew i had to deal with.........talking about my band and everything else right now is very trivial to me....as you staffers always said"don't avoid yourselves".....that,right now,is good advise....it wasn't way back when,but it sure is now,pertaining to all the shit you guys up in boston created for me!....i'm gone"

"what happened to me was out of my control man...."



Agreed



what happened after that,under the circumstances, was out of my control....."



That's kind of a loaded statement and shirks some things -- I agree that pretty much everything is out of our control, but to qualify it with "under the circumstances" excuses or dismisses your role - and your participation



People were watching you -- not in your control, but how you performed was in your control



Using Damon as an example again (I'm not picking on him, it's just a good fit for this) - Damon never qualifies his role in Straight as under the circumstances - he takes full ownership of his part - he could totally pass it off onto someone or something else, but he doesn't - he owns it



Another illustration of what I'm trying to say - if I'm driving home and some ass-clown cuts me off and i almost crash into him -- that's not my fault - let's say he then flips me the bird - that's not my fault - and then lets say I get out of the car, pull him out the window and beat him to death - well - that's my fault - I can't say under the circumstances what else was i supposed to do...


 
Anyway - it's actually really none of my business - LOL! - so I appreciate you hearing me out and letting me put my 2 cents in

[Anonymous]

People were watching you -- not in your control, but how you performed was in your control

ok.....how i performed was in my control.i didn't know why i was being scrutinised etc....i didn't do anything wrong....i definatly didn't deserve that shit dude.in the end it created a undeserving paranoia too...just like in group!
what i meant about under the circumstances,was after i was axed......if you knew what i know now,you'd understand.....but what ever....i've never purposly hurt anyone in my whole life...its just not my nature.....think what you want....anymore i really don't care....dean and sylvia were like hitler and eva brown....the rest were deans "henchmen"....damon played a big part in that! he even brags about it! "i was a prick" "thats why i was picked many times to run open meeting review"=...who was he? eichman?...for a jewish dude,
thats really something to brag about,isn't it? his ego is still very huge....lol.....i now see why i wasn't allowed to do many "raps"....never asked to work open meeting review or open meetings!......i see it now! i didn't buy into the harsh bullshit,didn't sit idlly by and participate in the confrontations,i questioned authority and they just couldn't have that around!
that simply didn't sit well with dean and sylvia and thier "henchmen".....ok....you got me there...
sorry that i called damon or any of your buddies on
the bullshit they pulled on my life or anyone elses lives.at least i don't have to live with what i did to so many ppl.ask any of my old newcomers,ppl that were on thier phases with me or ppl that i hung out with as a 7 stepper,and you'll hear nary a bad story of abuse and "campain smearing"....you're absolutly right.
i am responsible for my actions....i never participated in any of the kind bullshit they did.
i'm very PROUD of that!...thanks for pointing that out to me.....hippie{oh,by the way,i earned my nickname.where i live everyone has one.i live way out in the country.....the ppl here gave me my nickname because of the KIND OF PERSON I AM!!!!} ::rainbow::  ::cheers::  ::troll::

[Binky]

On 2006-03-31 19:18:00, stillahippie564 wrote:

"People were watching you -- not in your control, but how you performed was in your control



ok.....how i performed was in my control.i didn't know why i was being scrutinised etc....i didn't do anything wrong....i definatly didn't deserve that shit dude.in the end it created a undeserving paranoia too...just like in group!

what i meant about under the circumstances,was after i was axed......if you knew what i know now,you'd understand.....but what ever....i've never purposly hurt anyone in my whole life...its just not my nature.....think what you want....anymore i really don't care....dean and sylvia were like hitler and eva brown....the rest were deans "henchmen"....damon played a big part in that! he even brags about it! "i was a prick" "thats why i was picked many times to run open meeting review"=...who was he? eichman?...for a jewish dude,

thats really something to brag about,isn't it? his ego is still very huge....lol.....i now see why i wasn't allowed to do many "raps"....never asked to work open meeting review or open meetings!......i see it now! i didn't buy into the harsh bullshit,didn't sit idlly by and participate in the confrontations,i questioned authority and they just couldn't have that around!

that simply didn't sit well with dean and sylvia and thier "henchmen".....ok....you got me there...

sorry that i called damon or any of your buddies on

the bullshit they pulled on my life or anyone elses lives.at least i don't have to live with what i did to so many ppl.ask any of my old newcomers,ppl that were on thier phases with me or ppl that i hung out with as a 7 stepper,and you'll hear nary a bad story of abuse and "campain smearing"....you're absolutly right.

i am responsible for my actions....i never participated in any of the kind bullshit they did.

i'm very PROUD of that!...thanks for pointing that out to me.....hippie{oh,by the way,i earned my nickname.where i live everyone has one.i live way out in the country.....the ppl here gave me my nickname because of the KIND OF PERSON I AM!!!!} ::rainbow::  ::cheers::  ::troll:: "

I gotta say Damon was no Eichman - LOL! - truth be told - Damon's really a great guy - one of the best people I've ever met -- but that's a funny Nazi heirarchy there - I don't think Dean, Sylvia and the crew are really on par with Adolf and the boyz - maybe Groucho, Harpo & Zeppo -- or Moe, Larry and Joe (not Curly or Shemp...those 2 are untouchable, but that's for another time)

Anyway -- you mentioned:

"i never participated in any of the kind bullshit they did. i'm very PROUD of that!"



THAT'S exactly what I'm talking about - Yahtzee!- that's the ownership -- you chose a course of action and reaction -- just make sure too that that perception and honesty applies to the stuff you're not proud of...that's the hard stuff...and one of the reasons i respect Damon so much -- he's not bragging when he owns up to being a prick - he's just owning it - at least that's how i read his post - and know his character to be.

[teachback]

Dean was a fucking prick...no two ways about that.

[Anonymous]

whatever you want to say....spin it anyway you want.i don't have much in the way of shame for my participation in straight.damon hasn't "owned up " to shit.there were no apoligies coming from him.....he just simply admits/brags about his involvement in straight...shit he even said he's still a prick.hardly humble about his actions in there dude...quit drinking the kool aid man....they were hardly like the 3 stooges or the marx brothers....adolf and co. fits exactly into thier actions...anyone who didn't fit into thier little club was nixed out!dean had a club like that in virginia too.....thats his M.O. ....john p. greg m. and i didn't fit that criteria,so we were nixed out. then some of the ppl who helped them were nixed out too,after they helped fuck us over.....a staffer named jean,jeene..? just to name one....i ran into her after my departure.i was in harvard square.....she's the one who told me why i was fired! you see,i was NEVER officially told why!....i had to find out a year later. then 3 months ago,i found out the real reason....paul told me!so fuck your "yatzee game" dude....your phases are over....lets all get real here......so far,the only one of you stoughton staffers i respect is paul....at least he had the balls to admit what happened to me and the others was a witch hunt and wrong! you're just justifying what damon did and wanting me to shut up.....i won't go away silently in the night.after paul told me to cool out on damon,he {damon}had to be a prick to me after i asked him to forgive me for jumping his shit....i had honest reasons to jump his shit,but thought i'd take the high road and apoligise....what do you guys do?"huddle up" when someone is calling you on bullshit you did in there and attack them with verbal insults and "intellect"? in anonymous paper bag form? he was one of dean's pet "henchmen".....anyone who's not drinking the kool aid would know this.you know,you all are still fooled by the program....i know,to some point,i was when i went up there.....after the witch hunt and the other stuff,i wasn't.....but by then it was way too late.....

[Nomad]

Matt -

Let?s see if I have this right. You show up in this thread and lay out this diatribe about me being involved in your getting fired which was untrue. You accuse me of being one of Dean's henchmen - also untrue. I despised Dean throughout my phases, my tenure on staff, and long after for the way he treated people, including me. You mistake my having come to terms with my involvement in that cult and my role as staff with some sort of bragging - incorrectly. You claim that I was assigned to "watch" you - a lie. You ask me for forgiveness and, while I don't think that it means a great deal coming from me, I forgive you.

And now, finally, you call me a Nazi?

I'll not continue down this path with you. I'm past it.