Author Topic: A Question  (Read 3727 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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A Question
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2004, 06:27:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-07-11 14:25:00, Anonymous wrote:

"The time thing is not always the best indicator. I know of a man who went through an abusive treatment center (part of the CEDU network) when he was 15. He is now in his 40's, and still tells anyone willing to listen about what a wonderful experience he had had there and how much he had "grown". Some people never get out of the program. "


It's not perfect, but it is one way of having a little more confidence about whether someone is going to pop up with PTSD or not.

Not all residential treatment is bad.

On the other hand, not everybody who joins the Scientologists, for example, leaves.  I'm sure Tom Cruise's and John Travolta's experiences with Scientology have been pretty good.  Which doesn't help the ordinary schmuck working as a deck hand in the Scientology navy.

Time elapsed since leaving is one of the questions that acts as a filter to sort out good residential treatment from "we don't know"---but you're right, it's not perfect.

On the other hand, just because your friend in his 40's "never got out of the Program" doesn't mean this guy/gal didn't get good residential treatment.

For all we know, the poster could be Barbra Streisand or Joe Schmoe the precocious 12 year old from Peoria.  Or could be just who he/she says he/she is.

But if the guy's Program is still in operation and  doesn't have a whole pile of negative reviews from former patients, and a child has something that *needs* residential treatment, I'd rather have the parents send their kid *there* than Provo Canyon or Tranquility Bay or Casa.

I'd rather a local hospital for residential care, but where some people live, that's just not an option.  My next preference would be for the parents to move in proximity to the care so they can visit frequently.  But some people can't do that, either.

I *know* there are way more kids in residential treatment than need to be there.

But saying "all residential treatment is bad" has the same credibility problems as "all the survivor kids are lying" does.  And even among the substandard treatment, there's bad and worse.

What I'm tentatively trying to do is draw fine distinctions, in the hope that parents who have other choices than residential care decide that the bad care is pervasive enough not to take the risk---which I believe is absolutely true---and in the hope that parents whose kids really need residential care get the best care possible, and get their kids back home from it as soon as possible.

Timoclea
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nihilanthic

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A Question
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2004, 09:26:00 PM »
Tell me, why is a locked-in 'residential treatment' EVER necessary?

Being in a hospital for a sickness or a closed ward to physically prevent you from killing yourself or hurting someone aside, what REQUIRES it?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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A Question
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2004, 11:09:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-07-11 18:26:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"Tell me, why is a locked-in 'residential treatment' EVER necessary?



Being in a hospital for a sickness or a closed ward to physically prevent you from killing yourself or hurting someone aside, what REQUIRES it?"


That *is* what requires a locked ward.  A patient that is an imminent danger to himself or others who either needs to be stabilized or *cannot* be stabilized.

Being psychotic tends to vastly increase a patient's risk for violence to others.  Some kinds of depression vastly increase a patient's risk for violence towards himself.

Some of these patients are "good medication responders," which means if you can get them on the right dose of the right medications, you can handle their problems through outpatient care and following their condition on a maintenance dose of their meds.  (I fall in that category.)

Of the good medication responders, some accept that they have a major mental illness and want to be sane and have few enough side-effects that they follow doctor's orders and take their medications (I fall in that category.)

Then you have people who, as a result of their illness and their side effects and the stigma associated with mental illness don't accept or believe that they're mentally ill, when they are, and won't take their medication.

Those folks tend to get rehospitalized over and over again, stabilized on their medication, and released.  Some states now have something called "outpatient commitment" which means that if they go off their meds their family and police don't have to wait for the danger to become imminent to take them back to the hospital and get them back on their meds.  The choice (and they do have a choice) is take the meds or stay in the hospital.

The folks who aren't medication responders don't have a choice.  As long as they're dangerous, they have to stay hospitalized.

Then you have people whose danger to themselves or others is from severe cognitive impairment rather than mental illness.  Everything from severe autism to severe mental retardation.

Frequently those folks can stay home, if their families have the resources, or be placed in an unlocked group home.

Sometimes, the patient is so not-competent and so prone to wander, and prone to sudden outbursts of anger and violence, that they have to be kept in a locked ward for their own or others' safety.

Some Alzheimers patients are so prone to wander and so far gone that they have to be kept in a locked ward too keep them from wandering off and getting hurt.

*Some* drug abuse problems have such an immediate, high risk of death or injury to self or others (heroine addiction, huffing, PCP, alcoholism at the DT stage), that in the *very short term* a locked ward is justified, but *only* if the danger is imminent and *only* until the patient is stabilized.  More than three weeks or so at the absolute outside would be excessive---I'm just talking the immediate stabilization of the patient, not the whole course of substance abuse treatment.

And, of course, actual criminal behavior justifies locking someone up----but only after a fair trial with full due process of law.

And, of course, parents are no more qualified to decide if a particular teen patient needs a locked ward than they are to diagnose the kid and prescribe medication and dosages.  Nobody of any age should be involuntarily committed just on the say-so of a relative.  There's just too much room for incompetence and unconscionable conflicts of interest.

Timoclea
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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A Question
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2004, 02:52:00 AM »
Something to note about the 5-year guideline: a facility can change significantly, for better or for worse, within five years.  (For example, in an 18-month program, that is 3 generations of residents, which allows a lot of change.)  I would tend to trust five years of pretty positive history a lot more than a great experience five years ago.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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A Question
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2004, 08:26:00 AM »
What I'd tend to trust, if I just *had* to, would be five year later positive reviews by former patients *plus* the lack of piles and piles of reports of abuse.

Yes, a facility can change a lot in five years.  One thing to look at is what company owns the facility, has it changed ownership, and has it changed management, and what's the track record of its owners, administrators, staffers.

Family members *definitely* need to do their homework and be very informed consumers if they have a close relative that needs residential care.

And they need to understand the risks of bad care, that there is a lot of bad care out there, and that those risks mean that if it's at all possible to deal with their problems and their kid's problems in an outpatient setting---even if it's very difficult---that outpatient care is very probably in the best interests of the patient.

Timoclea
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »