Anybody here talking about Spring Creek Lodge, MT?

[dfaassen]

I'm researching this, wondering if people on this site have ACTUALLY BEEN to Spring Creek Lodge?  Trying to find a place for my daughter, yes, I'm being VERY carefull.  I was told that it was not licensed under Montana, but Utah.  It fell under the umbrella of Child Protective Services in Montana.  I'm calling State of Utah to try to see how often they get visited (audited) and want the results of the last 3 visits...Still lots of info to get.  Please if anyone has PERSONAL experience with this place, let me know.  Otherwise, I was looking into Cross Creek in Utah.  Thank you.

[Anonymous]

I don't really get why you are on this board asking for personal experience with Spring Creek Lodge.  You've been advised to talk to other parents and teens, especially the teens, that have been there.  There are parents there every day, for visits, or to attend a seminar.  Those parents won't be on this board.  

I think you're looking for a reason not to admit her by scaring yourself half to death with allegations that come from here.  If it's not that serious, then you can take all the time you want.  If it is, hope you don't wait too long.

I've been there, but felt the therapy at Cross Creek was more in line with what what was needed for all of us.  The environment is in the mountains in Montana, Cross Creek is at the edge of Zion and beautiful.  And yes, the kids can look out the window (at both) except in class when they are supposed to be doing their work.  No different from my own school days.   Outgoing Mail is not read by the staff, incoming mail is looked at to make sure nothing is being sent that shouldn't be.  THey learn self-control by following rules, take a deep look at their behaviors that got them there and learn ways to make better choices.  Lots of positive peer infuences.  No talking to each other about drugs, sex, etc., except in group meetings with their peers (and therapist if at Cross Creek)

The downside was the separation.  Even though it was bad at home, no talking, only yelling, running away to avoid following rules at home, I still had a hard time with it.  Letters in the beginning and phone calls later on, then the visits helped to rebuild our relationship step by step.  

If you're looking for a quick fix, look elsewhere.   You're best resource is to go visit the schools if you can.  If time is essential, take her yourself and you will have the opportunity to see if it feels right or not.  I don't recommend an escort unless you feel you can't do it yourself with the help of a family member or two.

She may be in big denial about needing help, so it's your decision how far you will go to help her, whatever that looks like to you.

[Anonymous]

A wwasp program, is a wwasp program.
Thats all you really need to know.
Do a little searching under WWASP / Abuse

[Anonymous]

Subject: Re: "my experience of you is..."  


Author:
 
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Date Posted: 16:33:46 10/15/02 Tue

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My name is Carl I sat in SCL for 15 months. I entered may,20th, 01. I left july, 12, 02. I went in level 1 and left level 1 with 12 or so points. SCL has forever torn me from my mom. She and I will never feel the same about eachother. If SCL and wwasp continues it will have a bunch of angry people like me will fucked up minds, from that hell hole. I got to go Ill finish up later.
 




 WWASP, TEEN HELP  


Author:
SCL
 
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Date Posted: 20:46:14 02/10/03 Mon

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I personally spent over 22+ hours a day in OP or what Spring Creek Lodge (a WWASP promoted program) calls "Special Needs". I would get about 5-12 minutes to walk over to the facility next door and take a shower (if they wanted to allow me to shower that day) all while being watched by one or more staff. Its a pretty degrading experience to strip down naked and shower in front of grown men on a daily basis. I wasnt a criminal, just a teen!
 

Spring Creek Lodge  


Author:
 
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Date Posted: 00:29:54 01/21/03 Tue


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I was at spring creek lodge in from 0ct 98 to dec 99 before that i was at tranquility bay for 7 months.TB waz hell an i woudnt recomend sendin anybody there.i think it shold get blown tha fuck up.spring creek is bad but i could deal with it.there waz alotta bad shit an dirty shit there but it a program so wut u expect.i been on both sides of the program cuz i spent my time in special needs and i also was on the upper levels.i believe that anyone can change there life if they want to. they dont need a program to do it.i did not graduate and im doin decent.i still get in trouble sometimes but im happy an that what counts.if you went to spring creek or know me id luv to talk to u.hit me up
Jakzpoe@aol.com
1luv

hunter

  scl  


Author:


 
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Date Posted: 16:18:03 01/08/03 Wed


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my name is tom garguilo i was at spring creek lodge january 02 to may 02 i spent most of my time in special needs.i graduated discovery seminar.I seen alot of phisicall and mental abuse pretty much te same that every one else has been through i was fed very liitle meat came around very seldomly for me the refused me my education because they claimed that i would be dangerous if i was given a pen. they lied to me about what my parents tell them and were i was going they kept telling me that i would be sent to jamaica. the directors brother chaffin pullman threaghten to cut my clothes off if i id not strip down to 1 layer. iw as restrianed for stupid things like not getting in bead or for talking.it was very dirty kids would wipe their feces all over the place and it would not be properly cleaned up then they would make kids go in there and if they refused the would call support staff and throw them in the room.there was this kid named russel matthews which i think is in jamaica now was assulted by a staff member named earl he was beat up by this ex convict for about an hour. i could take a shower every 3 days i had to use a porter potty an i could not wash my hands and i had to eat with my hands.my clothes were washed every 2 months.i was very sick and they refused me medical attention.i agree that these places should be shut down for good and the people taht run them should go to prison.FUCK WWASP!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: Re: scl Observation  


Author:
 
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Date Posted: 18:52:32 12/07/02 Sat


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The hobbit is what Spring Creek Lodge calls "observation" which is really a small walk in closet sized room. The rooms have urine stains all over the ground and smell like someone put rubbing alcohol under your nose when you first walk in. When I was at SCL kids would spend over one month straight in "observation" leaving only for bathroom breaks and a shower, and when you showered (if they let you that day) at least one or more staff would sit there and watch you. Bathroom breaks were sometimes used as a reward for good behavior and kids would have to wait long after the first urge "to go". When I was there the "observation" kids would use a portta potty that was never emptied in time so kids would have to squat over the seat. Spring Creek Lodge (WWASP) acts like "observation" is for suicidal, or out of control teens, thats not the case. Most of the staff at SCL didn't seem to have a whole lot of patients, so if a kid got annoying or the staff didn't feel like dealing with a student, that student would be sent to "observation" for days at a time. It might not sound so bad, but imagine being 14 or 15 and being placed in these observation rooms, this cannot be healthy for a teens emotional well being. Although this was over 3 years ago that I personally witnessed this, I still hear similar stories from students just leaving. And for an organization that treats students so inhumane, I could careless when it happened, because it happened.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-06-08 17:14:00, dfaassen wrote:

"I'm researching this, wondering if people on this site have ACTUALLY BEEN to Spring Creek Lodge?  Trying to find a place for my daughter, yes, I'm being VERY carefull.  I was told that it was not licensed under Montana, but Utah.  It fell under the umbrella of Child Protective Services in Montana.  I'm calling State of Utah to try to see how often they get visited (audited) and want the results of the last 3 visits...Still lots of info to get.  Please if anyone has PERSONAL experience with this place, let me know.  Otherwise, I was looking into Cross Creek in Utah.  Thank you."

What would you like to know?

[Anonymous]

Yes..my son was at Spring Creek Lodge.  In our opinion they lead you to believe that you will be speaking with your child in 3-4 months.  However, the reality is that most children don't reach level 3 or keep level 3 status for very long.  So if months and months without speaking to your child bothers you than don't send your child to SCL.

Also ask about the Hobbit (isolation room).  Ask about the 20 students in a dorm who gang up on ar student in the dorm and beat the crap out of them with soap in a sock and the family father doesn't know it's happening.

Ask about the seminars that you need to attend.  If you don't mind seating in a dimly lighted room for 2 plus hours and listending to people beat on chairs and beat on the floor while they dispose of their baggage from the past.  Yes this is the parent Discover Seminar. Oh yes, I hope your like sitting in seminars from 8 am - 12 midnight for 3 days then doing homework after 12 midnight.

Ask about Academic Probation if you don't complete enough chapters in a week your child receives consequences.  

There's lots of bad stuff on WWASP just keep looking, it's really not that difficult to find.  Parents have filed law suits against WWASP for inhumane treatment of their children.  WWASP has schools in Utah, Montana, Costa Rica (oops that closed), and several other places.  Several of there schools have closed over the years.

As you can tell I would not recommend WWASP to my worst ememy.  That's my opinion.    

Now do your homework. Then make your decision.

[dfaassen]

Thank you for replying...Perhaps I am scared and looking for a reason not to send her...I have a lot of work to do...Thanks again, didn't mean to be paranoid, it's hard not to be.

[Anonymous]

Feel fortunate that you found this web site before you sent your child to a WWASP Program.  We unfortunately found it after the fact.  I really don't know what type of child should be attending WWASP programs. Probably teens who have no problems, but why send them away.
What I know now is that it was "not" the right program for my son or another boy who was attending at the same time as my son.  

There marketing program is incredible.  Just search by any key word "anger", Troubled teen, teen suicide, ADHD, etc. and you will wind up at a WWASP program although it may not always be obvious at first.

When you receive a parent reference the first question to ask is "what type of payback do you receive for referrals to the program".  

My son described the program as brain washing.  After attending the first seminar I knew where he was coming from.  Although my son and I have our differences we were in agreement on this one.

I believe so many parents buy into the program because it's cheaper than most programs around.  However, I guess you get what you pay for.  Keep looking.  

If you child has an IEP/Special Ed then look thru your local school district for AB2726 assistance.  My thoughts are with you.

[Nihilanthic]

BE A PARENT! You can do it.

You don't need to lose your child and money to some greedy people off somewhere distant to fix her 'problems'. IT IS A BUSINESS. ANY PLACE. ALL PLACES LIKE THAT WANT MONEY! You run outta money? Kid gets shipped back home.

Anyone thinking I'm singling out any one place? Nope. All of them anywhere just want your money. All of the anons here protecting whatever org they represent can kiss my ass. All YOU really care about is your damn money anyway! If you ran your businesses without the abuse and more transparently so they can freaking get medical help and go to the authorities and talk to their parents I wouldn't be on your ass, would I?

Just be patient, build a bond, and love your kid. Thats all a child really needs. Don't give some strangers control over your child's life and custody of them. EVER. Give your money to charity if you can't do anything better with it.

If you *REALLY* need a program, do out patient. Locking someone up against their will will make them just want to escape. All of the coercive pain and punishment doesn't improve anyone unless you feel EVERYONE is better off from suffering - in which case you should be in there right beside your kid suffering with them. Locking someone up is a LAST resort, period.

[Anonymous]

Lucky you, you've actually done more research than I did when I sent my daughter to Spring Creek two weeks ago. I knew when I dropped her off that I had a weird uneasy feeling, even the children seemed a little "trained" when we got to "interview" them. Now I have been on the internet doing research nonstop and my fears are being confirmed. I will be picking up my daughter. I'm outraged..Truly, I would think twice about sending your daughter away. I never wanted to break my daughter's will or spirit as she is special but evidently that is what they do there. I just wanted her to mind and be respectful. My plea to you is to try everything in the world first. We tried a psychiatrist after she was diagnosed with ADHD and it helped some but truly we never followed up with therapy or counseling. We were desperate for a quick fix.. this was not worth it. My heart aches and I miss her every hour of every day and now I'm just sick over this. if you have anymore information to share that you have learned please email me at dresehand1@aol.com

[Kiwi]

Ask about Academic Probation if you don't complete enough chapters in a week your child receives consequences.

This is a new one on me.  What does Academic Probation consist of?