MURDER

[Anonymous]

The man was murdered and the murderers should be tried as such regardless of their age.  There is no excuse for murder unless your life is in danger.  This man chose a career that he thought might enable him to help teens and got killed for it.  I do not agree with these program and especially not the desert programs but that does not mean the counselors who hire on to try and make a difference in a child's life should be punished.

[Helena Handbasket]

Is this supposed to be a reply to another thread?  I haven't found it yet!   ::

You're not talking about the Eckerd camps are you?

[cherish wisdom]

This was a post that was made about the Cedar City, Utah, escape that resulted in the death of Anson Arnett.  Anson was the only staff member on duty that night.  

The definition of murder : The killing of a human being with malice aforethought.  

Malice aforethought - means that an individual INTENDS TO ACTUALLY KILL.  This is a necessay element of the crime of murder - without proving this then the crime can not be murder. This is one of the reasons the judge is waiting to determine if there is enough evidence to show, conclusively that these boys actually desired to end the life of Anson.  
If you look closely at the evidence that has been presented thus far it is clear that they did not INTEND to kill Anson. They did intend to knock him out in an effort to escape.
In some situations - where people feel their lives or safety is threatened - injuring a person in an attempt to escape may be justified.
No offence to all those who love and respect Anson.... But those boys may have been justified in their escape... If they were being abused, treated like prisoners of war, having their human and civil rights constantly violated - escaping may have been justified.  So far, the public does not know enought to determine if this was the case.  
What they did was certainly wrong - but we don't know what was going on in that place.  There have been so many reports of horror, abuse, sexual assault and so forth that it would be no surprise if these boys were being abused by staff.

Bureaucracy defends the status quo long past the time when the quo has lost its status
--Laurence J. Peter

[Anonymous]

Um...even if you didn't intend to kill someone but acted with "depraved indifference" to the possibility that your acts could kill someone, you can be convicted of murder.

That's just a general comment.

In this particular case, it would be really dumb to rush to judgment when we have so few facts, and those second or third-hand.

Timoclea

[Anonymous]

Well, what about the woman who was charged with depraved indifference when she refused to have a c-section and one of the 2 twins she was carrying died?  She ain't doing no jail time, got off with a slap on the wrist for causing the death of one child and giving birth to another which sadly, was born drug addicted.  Some justice system they got in Utah.

[cherish wisdom]

First of all- the authorities in Utah believe that the rich brats in residential therapy are disposable.   I had one tell me - and I quote, "Those kids should be locked up. We don't want them roaming the streets of our beautiful city." They litterally treat these residential escapes similar to actual prison escapes.  They arrest the children.  

Of course there was no justice for all of the children who have died in youth programs as a result of starvation, torture, extreme negligence and cruelty. The most jail time that was served for all of the deaths was 2 months - for one of the staff members responsible for the starvation/torture death of Aaron Bacon.  

We also don't know why there was this two to three hour delay in getting Anson medical help. It's all very strange. Those three hours may have meant the difference between life and death. Why did the other boys wait two hours to get help? Why didn't they go next door to the neighbor? Were they affraid of being punished severely for all of this?  What were they thinking?  Slomeone claiming to be one of the witnesses said that the two to three hours would not have made a difference. First of all there are things that can be done for the brain swelling - Decadron could have been given. These boys should have immediately tryed to get help. They did not do so - for whatever reason.  Also the owner of this program put the night staff in danger by having only one staff member on duty at night. The boys who escaped knew this - so it was probably going on for some time. I'm sure that others would try to escape if this were the case. Few people would willingly subject themselves to the kind of treatment that is commonplace at Utah residential programs.

I do not believe in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.

--Thomas Carlyle

[Anonymous]

This from the Florida statutes, but every state has similar laws.

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.--A person is justified in the use of force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.

776.08 Forcible felony.--"Forcible felony" means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

787.01 Kidnapping; kidnapping of child under age 13, aggravating circumstances.--

(1)(a) The term "kidnapping" means forcibly, secretly, or by threat confining, abducting, or imprisoning another person against her or his will and without lawful authority, with intent to:

1. Hold for ransom or reward or as a shield or hostage.

2. Commit or facilitate commission of any felony.

3. Inflict bodily harm upon or to terrorize the victim or another person.

4. Interfere with the performance of any governmental or political function.

(b) Confinement of a child under the age of 13 is against her or his will within the meaning of this subsection if such confinement is without the consent of her or his parent or legal guardian.

(2) A person who kidnaps a person is guilty of a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3)(a) A person who commits the offense of kidnapping upon a child under the age of 13 and who, in the course of committing the offense, commits one or more of the following:

1. Aggravated child abuse, as defined in s. 827.03;

2. Sexual battery, as defined in chapter 794, against the child;

3. Lewd or lascivious battery, lewd or lascivious molestation, lewd or lascivious conduct, or lewd or lascivious exhibition, in violation of s. 800.04;

4. A violation of s. 796.03 or s. 796.04, relating to prostitution, upon the child; or

5. Exploitation of the child or allowing the child to be exploited, in violation of s. 450.151,

commits a life felony, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(b) Pursuant to s. 775.021(4), nothing contained herein shall be construed to prohibit the imposition of separate judgments and sentences for the life felony described in paragraph (a) and for each separate offense enumerated in subparagraphs (a)1.-5.