What Led to a Program Decision?

[Deborah]

Two weeks at a summer "fun" camp is in no way comparable to time in a teen BM warehouse, and by no stretch of the imagination is it a "program".
It might be fun for her. Take her mind off the recent past.
Pay attention and please don't twist my words.

[Anonymous]

Outward Bound offers great outdoor activities for non troubled teens.  They do have age restrictions for some of their camps, and it's not like you're sending her off indefinitely.  They may already be filled for the summer, but it's worth a look-see.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-05-30 17:22:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Deborah, whats up, you now recommending prgorams like the rest of them?  Wow, what do you know about Spots grandaughter?  How is it that you now can recommend, with what all she has been through, sending her off once again as a good option?  





Is all that matters is what makes things the easiest for the guardian?  If the child can simply be shipped off once again, given all the abuse she is to have endured, sending her to summer camp is in order, just what she needs.  You compare her experience to that of falling off of a horse.  She must not have been through much after all. Sure seems if she was abused by her step dad, neglected by her mother and then abused further in a "program" then she would be need in much more than a summer camp.



 "

When I went camping with the Girl Scouts, I don't recall them telling me I couldn't talk to the other girls in my troop---or any other troop we encountered.

Five-point restraints were, for some strange reason, *not* on the list for our knot-tying badge.

The only thing unwholesome about the food was the occasional dusting of camp pepper.

Not one girl in my troop was delivered to the camp in handcuffs by ex-military hired "escorts."

"Run plans" were what the more athletic girls arranged with one of the chaperones for an early morning jaunt down a hiking trail.

Nobody yelled obscenities at anyone else in our "friendship circle."

Okay, well, there was the scattered and tattered copy of playgirl we found lying around inside one of the forts, but we didn't tell the counselors about that----and the universal exclamation was along the lines of, "Ewww!!! Gross!!!!"

We all knew the meaning of the term "First Aid"---and the difference between it and real medical attention, and were pretty sure about what needed which.

Nobody had to sit alone in a cinderblock room, on a cement floor, facing the wall.

If the weather was bad, we rescheduled.

We had plenty of water.

If a girl sat down and wouldn't continue on a hike,  I don't know what the troop leaders would have done, but they sure as heck wouldn't have hit her and wouldn't have let any of us (and at least half of us wouldn't have even thought of smacking her, even if she was being a pain).

Troop leaders did not carry their own pharmacy of psychoactive drugs along.

Tattling was frowned on, unless the stunt was such that someone could get really hurt.

We were more afraid of poison ivy and mosquitos than sadistic goons.

And, of course, our troop leaders never claimed to our parents that we were all lying manipulators.

[Anonymous]

Obviously she is fine if she is ready to go to summer camp.  She must not have suffered much at all.  I thought we were talking about a child who had been through hell and back.  Sounds like she has not been traumatized at all from her experiences.  Great, send her off, now, she should be a happy camper :razz: She is use to those in her life wanting others to keep her busy. That seems to be the norm for her.

[cherish wisdom]

There are actually fun camps for children and teens.  For instance - boy scout camp is always something my son looks forward to.  My children have all been to summer camp for a week or two and it has always been fun.
The wilderness programs are a different story. I think it would be a good idea for a child to go to a FUN camp and see that there really ARE people who are kind and nurturing.  

Cops; you wake `em up you gotta dance with `em. They lead.
-- Jack McNulty

[Anonymous]

Maybe Spot's grand daughter asked to go to a summer camp.  I really doubt Spots would make that decision for her considering the circumstances.

[Anonymous]

I'm confused, who is the legal guardian(s) of this child?  Her parents or grandparents?

[Anonymous]

Nobody is saying summer camps are not fun.  Spots said her daughter was abused by her step dad, neglected by her mother and further abused in a program.  All of this abuse and neglect has taken place within the last year.  This child who is said to have been abused, neglected and sent off for others to raise is now being sent off again, only after a very short reprieve.  Has she recovered from her trauma that quickly, so quickly that summer camp is in order, or had she truely ever been traumatized.

[Kiwi]

On 2004-05-31 05:28:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Nobody is saying summer camps are not fun.  Spots said her daughter was abused by her step dad, neglected by her mother and further abused in a program.  All of this abuse and neglect has taken place within the last year.  This child who is said to have been abused, neglected and sent off for others to raise is now being sent off again, only after a very short reprieve.  Has she recovered from her trauma that quickly, so quickly that summer camp is in order, or had she truely ever been traumatized."

One of the best ways to overcome psychological trauma is to get on with normal life.

[Anonymous]

Spots said: "Being faced this summer with the prospect of a bored 15-year-old around our busy ranch."

 ::

Bored on a busy ranch??

[Anonymous]

Hi Spots -
I want to second the motion to look at Outward Bound. They operate a first class outdoor program in varied areas with many exciting opportunities. The people are professional and Safety is stressed.
About the only think that will get a camper pulled and sent home is disregard for safety.
They have trips ranging from one week to about a month.
The whole point is to help the camper learn they can do things and do them well that they never imagined possible.
They got their start when it was noticed that during navel catastrophes; i was the old sailors who survived; and the young men who died in droves. This didn't seem to make sense; as the younger guys should've been stronger and more able bodied. It was determined that the old guys faired better b/c they had lived long enough to know "this to shall pass" and had developed a sense of capability - the mental strength to understand they could do it.
So they began a new type of training, to teach the young sailors they to could do things they hadn't imagined.
Outward bound grew from this.
The idea being, when you take a green kid; and you teach them it is possible to drop over the ledge of a cliff; and not only survive but to enjoy it.
I know it sounds like the nightmare outdoor program that have killed kids; but that b/c it is Outward bound they are trying to emulate in a grossly amateurish and negligent way.
Also, I suppose b/c of the back ground of the developers of these wanna be programs; they have this harsh demeaning quality we are all so familiar with.
Outward bound is not at all like that. The pace is set at the level of the slowest member; The slow ones are encouraged and shown how to safely improve their performance; the stronger ones often help carry some of the load of the weaker ones - it is Very different in philosophy.
The point being, it is well worth a look at.

Also, if she isn't interested in something quite so adventuresome; you might look at the YMCA summer camps. They probably are filled up - but there are always drop outs and no shows and the waiting list kids usually do get a spot. My son loved camp and always had a great time. The teen camps tend to run over the entire length of the summer - with every other week end home.

You are taking heat from a few goof ballz for looking at caps - I assume she wants to go; and I know how wonderful a summer at camp can be. It could be very very good for her after a 'Program' experience.
 
I have been looking at Outward Bounds canyon hike for myself. I love those canyons in South Utah. Just love 'em. They have a week long hike they do and I would so much love to try it. I worry about my knee and asthma. I could barely breath at the top of Bryce; and if I had tried to hike down to the canyon floor - I seriously doubt I could've made it back up. But even so, I am sorely tempted to give it a go. Maybe next year. . .

http://www.outwardboundwilderness.org/

http://www.outwardboundwilderness.org/c ... t_170.html

You might want to look at their Ascent corses for your Grand daughter.


// Spots said: "Being faced this summer with the prospect of a bored 15-year-old around our busy ranch."

 Bored on a busy ranch??//

Maybe shes not into horses. Either you are or your not.

[Anonymous]

I somehoe managed to not finish this thought. . .
The idea being, when you take a green kid; and you teach them it is possible to drop over the ledge of a cliff; and not only survive but to enjoy it.

It develpoes their self reliance and self assuredness and so they learn they really can do what ever they set out to do; and it helps greatly with their ability to go after what they want out of life instead of settling for what is easy.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-05-31 09:26:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Hi Spots -

I want to second the motion to look at Outward Bound. They operate a first class outdoor program in varied areas with many exciting opportunities. The people are professional and Safety is stressed.

About the only think that will get a camper pulled and sent home is disregard for safety.

They have trips ranging from one week to about a month.

The whole point is to help the camper learn they can do things and do them well that they never imagined possible.

They got their start when it was noticed that during navel catastrophes; i was the old sailors who survived; and the young men who died in droves. This didn't seem to make sense; as the younger guys should've been stronger and more able bodied. It was determined that the old guys faired better b/c they had lived long enough to know "this to shall pass" and had developed a sense of capability - the mental strength to understand they could do it.

So they began a new type of training, to teach the young sailors they to could do things they hadn't imagined.

Outward bound grew from this.

The idea being, when you take a green kid; and you teach them it is possible to drop over the ledge of a cliff; and not only survive but to enjoy it.

I know it sounds like the nightmare outdoor program that have killed kids; but that b/c it is Outward bound they are trying to emulate in a grossly amateurish and negligent way.

Also, I suppose b/c of the back ground of the developers of these wanna be programs; they have this harsh demeaning quality we are all so familiar with.

Outward bound is not at all like that. The pace is set at the level of the slowest member; The slow ones are encouraged and shown how to safely improve their performance; the stronger ones often help carry some of the load of the weaker ones - it is Very different in philosophy.

The point being, it is well worth a look at.



Also, if she isn't interested in something quite so adventuresome; you might look at the YMCA summer camps. They probably are filled up - but there are always drop outs and no shows and the waiting list kids usually do get a spot. My son loved camp and always had a great time. The teen camps tend to run over the entire length of the summer - with every other week end home.



You are taking heat from a few goof ballz for looking at caps - I assume she wants to go; and I know how wonderful a summer at camp can be. It could be very very good for her after a 'Program' experience.

 

I have been looking at Outward Bounds canyon hike for myself. I love those canyons in South Utah. Just love 'em. They have a week long hike they do and I would so much love to try it. I worry about my knee and asthma. I could barely breath at the top of Bryce; and if I had tried to hike down to the canyon floor - I seriously doubt I could've made it back up. But even so, I am sorely tempted to give it a go. Maybe next year. . .



http://www.outwardboundwilderness.org/



http://www.outwardboundwilderness.org/c ... t_170.html



You might want to look at their Ascent corses for your Grand daughter.





// Spots said: "Being faced this summer with the prospect of a bored 15-year-old around our busy ranch."



 Bored on a busy ranch??//



Maybe shes not into horses. Either you are or your not.



"

Thanks anon (LOL) KB.

 :silly:

[Anonymous]

What's up with this kid's parents and why aren't they raising their own daughter?  Sounds to me like the folks and Spots need to focus on their own "emotional growth" issues and could all benefit from an Outward Bound reality jolt.

[Anonymous]

Hi Spots -
I want to second the motion to look at Outward Bound. They operate a first class outdoor program in varied areas with many exciting opportunities. The people are professional and Safety is stressed.

kb, are you recommending a program you know nothing about...other than of course what you have been told by others or by what you have read?  Have you been to outward bound?

You people are amazing.  Why doesn't Spots take her granddaughter camping...spend time with her, one on one...show her the love she needs...instead of sending her off yet again with strangers.

If she has been abused in the way Spots claims she was, then the child needs to be surrounded by those who love her...not fellow campers who can no more relate to what she has been through then the man in the moon.  Unless of course, she really has not been through much at all.