Author Topic: Positive Impact??  (Read 17008 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Positive Impact??
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2004, 10:20:00 AM »
Greg, that is just it, you don't have all of the facts on Spots and the gang.  All you know is what they post publically.  What they do privately behind the scenes, is what you and all readers on this public forum do not know.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2004, 10:27:00 AM »
I agree, something stinks here.  Smells like grease to me (as in greased palms???).
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Offline Antigen

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Positive Impact??
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2004, 11:47:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-04-28 04:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Kiwi, whether you are privy to truth or not, they are all close associates.  They have all been working together to pull kids from WWASP programs all the while supporting placement in others.

"


I'd like to know something about them others.

I started probably over a year ago asking PURE affiliated people about these other programs and have yet to get any answer at all to any question.

Here are some of the questions:

1) To which schools does PURE refer families.
While I still don't have any conclusive answer to that question, I did find (actually Deborah found and passed on to the forum) a post by Sue to the Bridge to Understanding from Dec `01 describing Skyline Journey as "part of The PURE Foundation"

http://www.bridgetounderstanding.com/cg ... i?read=460

Later, someone identifying themselves as LeeAnne said they'd never taken a referal from PURE because SJ wouldn't pay their fee. Doesn't matter.

Here are the schools listed in the WWASP v PURE docket from last December:

*Oak Ridge Military Academy
*Glacier Mountain Academy
*Sorenson's Ranch School c/o Vione Simkins
*Red Rock Canyon School c/o Melanie Habibian
*The Whitmore Academy
*Safe Harbor Haven
*New Horizons Youth Ministries
*High Top Academy
*Lott's Legacy Boarding School,

I can't be sure that this list is an accurate or even partial answer to my question.

Anybody?

2) How does PURE ensure the safety and efficacy of the programs to which they refer people?

Nothing but the sound of crickets and some tolling about mostley Carey in response to that one.

3) How, exactly, is PURE different from WWASP.

Anybody?

Now, are you saying, anon, that Positive Impact is one of the programs to which PURE refers people? If you can show me some proof of that, I'll add it to the list and look into it when I have time.

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2004, 11:57:00 AM »
Thanks Ginger, I too would like to know more about these programs.  We all know that WWASPS ain't the only gig in town.  There are hundreds of programs all pitching their "features and benefits" on the Internet 24.7.365.  and apparently, benefiting from the hard work (sic) of ed cons and independent referral agents steering the current crop of troubled parents their way ....
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2004, 11:59:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-04-28 07:20:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Greg, that is just it, you don't have all of the facts on Spots and the gang.  All you know is what they post publically.  What they do privately behind the scenes, is what you and all readers on this public forum do not know."


Well, that is interesting. Spots, are you a member of Pure? Are you assiting in removing kids from WWasp and placing them in Pure "approved" facilities?

If so, why is Pure's brand of behavior modification better than WWasps?

Spots, help bring me around to a better understanding of who I am speaking to and responding to. I will not take other's words for your intentions but instead care to hear it from your mouth.

Thank you.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2004, 01:40:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-04-27 05:33:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Spots endorsing Positive Impact...funny...seems to be a connection between Spots, Tim Weiner, Craig Rogers, Positive Impace, Karen Z, Steve Bozak...and so on and so on.



"


Tim Weiner, isn't that the journalist who wrote articles about WWASPS? Why would he be even remotely connected with any of these folks?
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Offline spots

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« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2004, 03:21:00 PM »
Quote

Well, that is interesting. Spots, are you a member of Pure? Are you assiting in removing kids from WWasp and placing them in Pure "approved" facilities?



If so, why is Pure's brand of behavior modification better than WWasps?



Spots, help bring me around to a better understanding of who I am speaking to and responding to. I will not take other's words for your intentions but instead care to hear it from your mouth.



Thank you.



"


Well, Greg, this is who I am and what I stand for.  BTW, my real name is known to this forum, courtesy of an illegally reprinted private email from me to Carey Bock.

I am a grandmother, married 40 years to my high school sweetheart, having 8 grandhchildren, raising horses, goats, chickens, etc. on a ranch in Northern California.  We are grandparents (and guardians) of a now-15yo girl who spent 10 months at Casa by the Sea.  Her mother, the sole custodial parent, did not communicate directly with her for the duration of her incarceration, allowing her to suffer the sort of life that you and others endured in Straight.  While I cannot understand this reasoning, it was the strongly-expressed wishes of the new step-father that this child was disrectful enough to need behavior modification that seemed to blind the custodial parent to the possibilities of abuse testified to by survivors such as those among us.  

Obvious to anyone with half a brain is my loathing for all "programs".  KarenZ (my "accomplice?") is a nice person, but her affiliation with yet another fix-for-hire group has put her on my Negative List.  Do I refer to other programs after WWASPS?  Have I ever ever ever said anything positive about any program, except that famous "...perhaps Positive Impact may be OK", which is as ringing an endorsement as me saying Saddam Hussein (or Pol Pot or Jo En Li [North Korean guy]) is less evil than Adolph Hitler.

There is no behavior modification.  No behavior can be "modified".  One can oppress inappropriate behavior, perhaps supplant it with something more socially-acceptable IF the perpetrator finds the alternative acceptable.  Otherwise, you just paint over with whitewash, which washes off in the first spring rain. The trick is to work with the perpetrator and try to present a value analysis that would make behaving "normal" a Good Thing.  Smoking pot, smart-mouthing, and staying out past curfew are "normal", relatively short term, and usually prove to be more trouble than they're worth to continue.

Do I receive big bucks from PURE to get kids out of WWASPS and send them off to a PURE-paid-referral "program".  No.  Actually, my financial position is a great deal more than "comfortable", not requiring me to stoop to affiliation with any teen referral agency. I do have high moral standards for my endeavors, and I am sorry for people who shill for evil, whether for money, assuaging guilt, or simply because they're too dumb to know the difference.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2004, 03:34:00 PM »
Thank you Spots. This has been my impression of you all along. I accept what you say at face value.

I am finding these PURE and WWASP paranoid delusional rantings a bit boring, to be frank.

Spots, you are cool in my book. I love it when someone out of the direct line of fire (children, sibling, parents) gets involved and rescues a kid from a program, and then becomes a program critic.

Thank you for caring, and Keep it up!
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2004, 03:42:00 PM »
And by the way, Spots...I was in the Seed in 1973, not Straight. Straight was a cheap imitation of the real thing, a cool-aide love cult rehab named the Seed that spawned that line of treatment centers. In fact, my father was one of the founders of Straight, Inc.

I am the father of a 21 year old full time college kid that has even smoked pot,skipped school,had parties at my house behind my back, had the police called on him, been in fights  and drank beer and cussed at his father! Imagine!!!!!!

Oh yeah, and if he continues on his current path, should have his PHD and be a psychologist within 3 years, has been living on his own for 2 1/2 years and takes care of a dog, maintains a job and loves his family.

No behavior modification necessary......
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2004, 06:18:00 PM »
Spots writes:
KarenZ (my "accomplice?") is a nice person, but her affiliation with yet nother fix-for-hire group has put her on my Negative List.

Well, I am sorry to learn this. I'd like to point out tho, that it has never been a secret that I sent my son to another program after pulling him from Dundee; and I have always said I felt this was, in our case, a good choice. My affiliation with this program has also never been a secret and I have explained it in detail several times. Some might get the idea you have just learned about this, and that's an unfair impression to give. I can't help but think if I have been moved from your "positive list" to your "negative list", it has more to do with something other than this "affileation", about which you have always known; But whatever the reason, I am sorry to learn you have me on your "negative list." I can't help but think you are using a tilted scale when weighing me in the balance - but its your scale.




Greg Writes:
Oh yeah, and if he continues on his current path, should have his PHD and be a psychologist within 3 years, has been living on his own for 2 1/2 years and takes care of a dog, maintains a job and loves his family.

This is good news; and hopefully when he is a physiologist, he'll be able to reach kids like mine and maybe actually help. I don't want to write a great deal about just how scary a serious drug problem is; and how different from token' on a number now and then. . .but it Is Very scary and Very different; and I just can't bring myself to agree that their is nothing a concerned and caring parent should do.
The advice is often "spend Time with your kid; get family therapy; get drug counseling, ect". . .We tried all that.
And while I know time pressure and jobs and all, often keep parents from having time for their kids; this wasn't out situation.
And, it wasn't as if I didn't seek out professional opinions. . .
I asked the family doctor; the school counselors; the drug consoler; a psychologist who does family therapy and adolescent issues; as well as every member of our extended family for advice; and it was unanimous that under the circumstances, a "program" was a valid decision.
Many people whoz opinions on this subject I do respect, disagree, and maintain that any program is bad news. I am willing to accept that you *might* be right; at least as far as it seldom helps and the risk of harm is real; But I am not able to go so far myself, as to say there isn't sometimes a need for intervention of the program kind. However, and let me stress it; as ISAC points out: No One Should Be Abused in the name of Treatment!
I couldn't agree more.


 Anonymous wrote:

"Spots endorsing Positive Impact...funny...seems to be a connection between Spots, Tim Weiner, Craig Rogers, Positive Impace, Karen Z, Steve Bozak...and so on and so on. "

&
Tim Weiner, isn't that the journalist who wrote articles about WWASPS? Why would he be even remotely connected with any of these folks?


He's not. Not at all. And neither are many others named, connected. I only know of one person who lumps all these individuals together. I would assume this is her.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2004, 06:46:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-04-28 07:20:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Greg, that is just it, you don't have all of the facts on Spots and the gang.  All you know is what they post publically.  What they do privately behind the scenes, is what you and all readers on this public forum do not know."


And You do have the facts, is that it?
You are all knowing and all seeing, and have it All figured  out, huh?
What Spots and the gang (gotta love that Spots!)is doing behind the scenes is something you are an authority on?
And it must be something Real Bad, huh?
What oh What could it be?
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Offline cherish wisdom

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« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2004, 08:48:00 PM »
by Sandra Kidd, Educational Consultant
June, 1999
Austin, Texas
512-338-1272

A beautiful beachfront Mexican villa located on the Sea of Cortez in a quaint fishing village and American retirement community called Bahia de Kino is the location for Positive Impact, a new residential specialty program for adolescent boys between the ages of 12 to 18. Here the boys work and live as a ?community of family? while learning new cognitive thinking and positive behavioral patterns through mentoring and leadership development. The average length of stay is from six to eighteen months and thanks to the Mexican economy the program is more affordable to some parents.

A profile of an appropriate candidate is a boy who has one or more of the following situations: a sense of adventure though often misguided and overly risky, substance abuse, a belief that parents and other authority figures are dispensable, suffers from loss of a Father-figure or needs male mentoring, needs life skill development, has a sense of entitlement, underachieves in school, is unable to make positive choices, or is involved in a negative peer subculture. The directors of the program believe that removing the boys from their natural, familiar environments forces them to have an ?imbalance,? and their exposure to a new, foreign culture makes them receptive to change and reflection, which then ?creates balance? within their lives.

A team of professionals called life coaches guides this process. Even though Positive Impact is a new program, the professionals who are involved in the program each have many years of experience working with troubled youth. They clearly know how to facilitate changes in attitudes and behaviors. This team includes J. John Anderson, M.S., Executive Director, Keith A. Breiland, M.D., Medical Director, Michael Cumming, M.S., Program Director, and Craig Rogers, Residential Living Coordinator.

I observed a GGI (Guided Group Interaction) that was led by Mike and Craig and was impressed with the genuine interest and concern they had for the boys in counseling them. They were good at recognizing destructive thinking and behavior that had become patterns for them, and helping them restructure their approach to positive, solution-focused living and coping skills. This process of counseling is called ?Positive Peer Environment.? It teaches the boys how to: identify problems, accept responsibility for their actions, and work towards a positive ?win-win? resolution. This philosophy and five levels of STEPS (Service, Treatment, Education, Purpose, Success) enable the boys to examine issues of trust, honesty, integrity, leadership, value, clarification, and problem solving.

They are taught the self development by caring and serving others. They help each other with the cleaning and cooking in the house as well as doing many hours of community service. They illustrated this attitude to my colleague, Susan Skelton, and me when we entered the house for the first time and each boy introduced himself to us and asked how he could serve us. This is an amazing change of attitude for some of the boys who were used to being negative and self-serving.

The boys attend school on site. Each boy has an IEP that is designed to help him catch up for failed or missing credits and to continue taking subjects to graduate from high school. The courses are offered through an accredited school in the United States. There is also a lot of experiential education. We took a boat to a neighboring island and enjoyed watching the boys make a presentation on the ecology of the island. They also showed me the mountain they climb and where they go snorkeling for recreation. They will soon add scuba diving to their activities. The boys have very full days from early morning until night. Because of the heat, recreational activities take place in the morning and with the other chores, schoolwork, and community service spaced throughout the remainder of the day. There is a siesta every afternoon. Remember, it?s Mexico!

Family involvement is also a key element to the program. Intensive, weekend family retreat sessions at Kion Bay occur approximately every two months. In addition, modern Internet technology enables parents to see and talk to their son while having a weekly family therapy session. Impressive?. In fact, I would say that Positive Impact had an overall positive impression on me.

I AM NOT IMPRESSED. First of all the boys must clean, cook and do other chores and community service (whatever that is).  The program is designed to help the boys learn "new congnitive thinking and possitive behavior patterns."  It takes 6 to 18 months.  Also the lady was asked by the boys, "how can we serve you?" There's also limited contact with the outside world and parents are only allowed to contact students on-line.  They also have weekly family therapy - which is usually a monitored phone visit with the child.  I saw many RED FLAGS and WARNING SIGNS OF AN ABUSIVE PROGRAM in this flowery post. It's been around since 1999 - there should be more information. It seems like it does have WWASP characteristics.  

The sadist cannot stand the separation of the public and the private; nor can he grant to others the mystery of their personality, the validity of their inner self...in order for him to feel his maximum power, he wants the world to be peopled with concrete manipulatable objects...
-- ERNEST BECKER, The Structure of Evil, 1968.

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Offline jcb269

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« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2004, 12:45:00 PM »
Hi, I have been following this post since i first put it up, and I am not a "troll" as someone suggested it I really do have a brother that is going to Positive Impact.  There has been a lot of beneficial information posted, but my problem is convincing my parents that this Positive Impact poses some potentially mentally abusive charactieristics in its programs.  Does anyone have any suggestions about fomulating an outline a plan to do this?  I just don't know that much about therapy or "behaviour modification" to see red flags.  

Does anyone know a good article talking about the effects of these sorts of therapies.  Preferably not by someone who could be construed as a "radical activist" as my parents would say, but a neutral observer?  Thanks for all the help.

John
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2004, 11:25:00 PM »
Hello, I myself went to this program, I have been out for 2 years now and would love to answer any questions you have about Positive Impact. Feel free to email me at brianhama@hotmail.com
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2004, 08:08:00 PM »
My son is attending Positive Impact as a result of his mother's intervention due to drug use in his senior year. He went to 2nd Nature in Utah and followed by this Positive Impact. At 2nd nature, his communication with both his mother and I was very favorable. He confronted with some honesty, his use of drugs and reasons for dropping out of high school.

   I am finding a stone wall in my communications with him via mail or phone. He is in step one and it appears that he will remain there for a time based period as opposed to an achievement based approach. Bottom line is; he wants to leave upon his 18th birthday and his mother and the staff appear to have put up all stops to prevent this from happening. I, as his father, really do appreciate the need for him to confront his issues and own his life. However, some of the tactics that I see, I cannot help but feel are unreasonable. As an example; upon his arrival at PI, he took to reading books. Bear in mind that he had just spent 48 days and nights in the Utah wilderness without a tent and only a tarp over his head. He was ok with that. He even felt a never before sense of inner strength. After 2 days of reading at PI, they put him on a (book blackout). In the days following at one of the sessions, my son mentioned that his 18th birthday was 5 weeks away and that he might choose to leave the program. A matter that is well within his legal rights. The groups response was an intervention that requires him to pay for his meals and rent. Beach time for him consists of wathcing the other boys swim while he picks up trash on the beach to earn his meals and rent. He told me that he is required to ask permission to enter rooms of the house he lives in.
   All of this is to me,- couter intuitive. So far this seems like a bad frat house.
   I await a reply from you, and formost, I'm waiting for a reply from the staff at PI.

An anxious father

PS I would like to take the liberty of posting these questions to you on the wayward web. I will respect the privacy of your response by not sharing it with anyone.
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