come out come out whereever you are

[ehm]

VSP is one righteous dude! :wink:

[Anonymous]

Thanks Patriot and Morli,

It just floors me the hypocrisy of our great United States the land of the free but the land of the controlled.  We don?t have a clue what?s really going on in the world.  Sure we have 900 channels, but there is nothing on, it?s all bull hockey.  We are systematically lied to on many fronts by our government and in the media.  I?ve spent much time in Europe in the last year and the first thing you realize when you turn on the TV or ?One Eyed Babysitter? as I call it, is how distorted our media is.  When the BBC shows coverage of the war in Iraq, they really show what?s going on.  The carnage is intense and they show it all.  Holland is the same too.  I?ve seen shows that would rock your foundations as to why we are there.  The footage made me sick.  It just so infuriates me.  How much we are lied to.  And most don?t even question or suspect anything wrong.  Why?  Why have we allowed ourselves to become subservient to a select few, why?  

Moving on to the Straight issues and the fact that the principles are still standing is just so damn wrong.  If some joe six pack robs a 7-11, it?s front page news. But how is it that this story of Straight won?t get picked up.  And I mean really picked up?  After all the work and efforts by Fornits, Isac, Safety, The Straights, Rick Ross, Pump-gate, Yahoo Groups, and many more, the story is flat.  It just goes nowhere.  It?s just so damn sad, and so deplorably wrong.  

There just has to be a better way to call attention to this information.  What good is a protest if it doesn?t make it into the papers, but the plight of the Palestinians does?  What about us?  What about our plight?  For God?s sake it happened on US soil! Why does our media not care?  We are not lying!  We didn?t make it up! It?s real, more real than any of these reality TV crap shows that are being hurled at the masses.  

I think our best hope is foreign Media coverage, and that?s exactly where I?m focusing my attention.  If you actually read a paper from London you would be astounded at the sheer size and complexity of the articles.  Hell you almost need a dictionary on stand-bye just to get through it.  They are mammoth in comparison to what we call papers here.  What we have here in America is almost like a comic book with cute little pictures for those who can?t read. It?s a damn farce.

Anyway enough rambling, just damn mad the principles are still standing.  I hope time is on our side but I am starting to wonder if we?re just lying to ourselves.  There are many good people and efforts afoot.  I hope they make a difference, I really pray they do.  However, the strength of the principles is significant. I?ll keep doing what I can too regardless of the odds.

Take care all,

VSP,

p.s. Good picture Morli, how did you post it?

[ehm]

Well, I'll be doing my Earth Day thing again this year, passing out info, manning a booth, talking to people who are political, and really care about the issues. I agree that it's phenomenal  the crimes that our president has been a gigantic part of. It floors me daily. I really appreciate your enthusiasm, you are a strong asset to the cause.  I must admit there is a part of me that would love to just escape it all, but that is another topic all together. I do know one thing though, I don?t think what we want can be achieved without unity, how do you achive that with all the hate?

Oh, that old thing? ? Magic :wink: -- But seriously... I HOT LINKED IT!

[Anonymous]

On 2004-04-16 11:25:00, Maude wrote:

 I do know one thing though, I don?t think what we want can be achieved without unity, how do you achive that with all the hate?



Oh, that old thing? ? Magic :wink: -- But seriously... I HOT LINKED IT!

"

I believe it?s a matter of what?s important!  

That?s how we ALL win!

That?s how we end the current conflict with many on Fornits

What do we all want?

Accountability?

The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few!  ?thanks Star Trek?

How about making a difference instead of more divisions?

Besides it a better way of living don?t you think, a hell of a lot less stressful.

Let?s be constructive instead of destructive, it?s common sense.

VSP

[ehm]

On 2004-04-16 11:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2004-04-16 11:25:00, Maude wrote:


 I do know one thing though, I don?t think what we want can be achieved without unity, how do you achive that with all the hate?





Oh, that old thing? ? Magic :wink: -- But seriously... I HOT LINKED IT!


"

I believe it?s a matter of what?s important!  



That?s how we ALL win!



That?s how we end the current conflict with many on Fornits



What do we all want?



Accountability?



The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few!  ?thanks Star Trek?



How about making a difference instead of more divisions?



Besides it a better way of living don?t you think, a hell of a lot less stressful.



Let?s be constructive instead of destructive, it?s common sense.



VSP









"

Agreed.  :tup:

[Antigen]

VSP, a good friend of mine reminded me lately that it's so important to focus discussion on the intake process--the lack of qualified diagnosis and recruiting methods. When you say drug rehab or program, the presumption is usually that we were all druggie kids, destined to be hookers and street junkies and so nobody really cares that maybe we got roughed up a little or subjected to some "discipline" or whatever. It was all for a good cause, right?

That's why nobody cares.

Honestly, I can't go along w/ comparing our experience to that of the Palistinians. Would you trade places? Not me. The major part of my troubles ended the day I turned 18. I don't think many will ever go along w/ the idea that our plight is as bad or worse than that of the Palistinians.

I don't even think our ordeal is half as bad as, say, the (now pardoned or acquited) defendants in the Tulia drug bust. (see http://dpft.org/ for background) I think the most important aspect of the Straight saga to the public at large is how the philosophy and the people who promote it have come to carry such unquestioned sway in matters of public policy and opinion. The part of the story that we have to contribute is just how bug all fanatical and unbalanced these people are and how full of shit their philosophy.

Now, here's the rub, where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. Even among Program survivors who are not the least bit sympathetic to the Program, there exists considerable disagreement about the philosophy. My buddy ThePatriot (and I do remember the guy fondly) says he'd strangle someone w/ his own hands if they tried to sell a jib to his kid. Amazing!

So, how do we combat centuries of superstitious fear over psychotropics? Cause as long as people generally accept that psychotropic drugs are a menace to society, they'll go on accepting all kinds of cruelty and lunacy in an effort to combat this evil monster.

I think Mike Rupert is probably doing more for our cause than almost anyone else:
http://www.copvcia.com/

If triangles had a God, He'd have three sides.
--Old Yiddish proverb

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
It is wrong to leave a stumbling block in the road once it has tripped you.

[kaydeejaded]

I would not trade places and be in palistine oh hell no.

I would not. No no no. I would most definately say Straight was preferable.

[Anonymous]

I don't know....I hear they get The Best Hash In The World (TBHITW) over there.  Plus, once the Israelis add the final straw and break the camel's back, there could be a lotta cool work for mercenaries in the Israeli Civil War.

[kaydeejaded]

But those spiders!!!  :grin:

[Anonymous]

Ginger,

The Palestinian comparison was bad on my part.  Yes they have it much worse.  But what I was trying to say was if something happens there it?s in our papers, at least part of it.  However, things that happen here are not.  Take for instance the proof of insurance fraud with Sembler and Straight.  Sure we talk about Enron and those problems but not when it?s Sembler.  

I agree with what you?re talking about.  The intake process and how the same fanaticism has molded our laws.  And how hypocritical is it that Bush wouldn?t put Noel in a Sembler type program on one hand but takes their money and advice on the other.   Then passes laws created by them too.  The cycle won?t end until they are exposed and the truth gets out.  

Take care,

VSP

[Antigen]

VSP, what if I told you that a US based multinational corporation w/ ties all over Washington and right into the Whitehouse had been busted, dead to rights on national network TV running puppet corporations (plural) off a sandbar in the Carribean in order to get around the embargos on Iraq?

It happened. I sat there and watched Ted Koppel one night run down the details on how Halliburton did just that on ABC World News Tonight. Barely made a ripple.

What if a former LAPD officer produced copious evidence and even congressional testimony from CIA assets proving that CIA has been running the international illicit drug market for decades.

See http://copvcia.com/

We finally heard about Enron AFTER the election, after the crash, after there was no way out.

It takes a lot to get a story into the public concience. A lot of different people being effected, a lot of repetition, a lot of probing investigation. The journalists will hit on whatever the public is buying. That's the truth! Despite anyone's fond wishes to the contrary, there's a species of people who would, and often do, give their lives to get the story.

At least now, you can get a newspaper to print a critical story on an outfit that preports to cure druggie kids. That's progress! In the `70's, gangs of Seedlings used to abduct their olddruggiefriends, drag them to the building and borwbeat a confession out of them THEN call the parents to tell them that Jr. said he needed help. And you'd sooner get grandma to believe Billy Graham was a scammer than get a cop or judge to believe a bad thing about Art Barker.

The dyke has sprung a leak and, lucky for us, no one bothered to tell Craig Rogers and his merry band of lunatics the story of how the little Dutch boy wound up in traction.

Is uniformity [of opinion] attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson