ABUNDANT LIFE ACADEMY

[Anonymous]

I have read several many postings regarding the owners, employees, and circumstances surrounding the teens being in Mexico.  What I don't understand, is why is there so much hatred from those of you who are posting?  Has the owner of ALA done anything to any of you personally?  Do any of you have any children there?  All I have been able to conclude from reading these postings is that there are a lot of you who are really miserable individuals.  Using profanity when speaking about the owner.  Please, that is really very immature.  It is obvious from reading the postings that you are all way off base.  I have been to the ALA in Mexico.  It is a beautiful facility.  The girls are well cared for.  They have plenty of food to eat.  They have beds to sleep in.  The atmosphere is positive and uplifting.  

All any of your postings have proven is that you all do not have the facts.  You are very misinformed.  You have jumped on each others bandwagon and are feeding on each others hate.  

Your behavior is uncivilized.  Tomorrow is Resurrection Sunday.  Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for each one of us.  And every time people show hate towards one another as has been done regarding ALA, you crucify Him again.  

What is going on at ALA is troubled teens are being helped.  Period.  There is no cover up.  There is no hiding.  They are in a save, quiet community.  

The hateful poison that you all have posted, regarding something you know nothing about, is no different than the immaturity demonstrated by sixth graders in middle school.  If you want to be taken seriously, behave in a civilized manor.  It is a well known fact that people who are insecure with themselves use putdowns to make themselves feel better.  As such, it is evident that there are a lot of you who are very insecure, as evidenced by the degree which you are trying to tear ALA down.

ALA is doing a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Believe me, I understand what you're going through. I have an 18 year old daughter who scare the living hell out of me for a couple of years. If I didn't know better, if I hadn't been through what I'd been through, I would very likely have taken the same bad advice my parents did. But I knew better and so, while I can't say I always did the right thing--that would be a lie--at least I didn't do the most awful things that were done to me.

Who gave you the suggestion that it was a good idea to put conditions on your love for your son? Who cares if he smokes pot in the back yard? Does that really make him deserving of getting kicked out? Locked in boot camp? Further controled and manipulated in some boarding school?

Look, if whatever he's doing is really intollerable to you, then let him go like the prodigal son. But please don't pay people to hurt him for you. I know the brochures look all glossy and pretty, but that's exactly what these places are all about. If you did to your son at home what these people do to kids in these camps and boarding schools, you would go to prison for felony child abuse. No lie!

Please, take Facekhan's advice. He's got quite a few friends with direct and recent experience with these places. If you're afraid to bring your son home, then take him on vacation somewhere pleasant for a couple of weeks. Hike the AT. Take in Costa Rica--it's cheap and fun. Take some time for him to sort things out and clear his head. He's just been through an extremely demanding and stressful experience.

And, wherever you're thinking of sending him, go there yourself and see with your own eyes. Look these kids and counselors in the eye and listen with your heart to what's going on day-to-day. Any legitimate school should be at ease and proud to show you all you want to see. Any aprehension over your having free reign to poke around should send up some red flags.

Ginger, I pulled the above out of another line.  I have been to ALA in Mexico.  I looked in the eyes of kids and the counselors.  I listened to the kids.  I listened to the girls make comments about "I am so glad my mom sent me here.  I hated her for it at first, but now I know I need to be here."  I watched the girls talk to each other and help each other with bad attitudes.  The school let us see whatever we wanted to see.  There was no hiding, no apprehension.  

As a parent, I knew in my heart, as I am sure you know in yours, when something is right.  I am so sorry that you have had your share of heartache (who hasn't?), but your experiences in life have not been with the ALA.  They are doing a good thing with the girls.  I have seen it with my own eyes.  As a parent, you know what is best for your child.  Why then, are the parents who feel the need, for whatever reason, not given that same consideration, the right to choose how to deal with their children?  why are so many people so hostile against something they don't have the facts on?

The girl who has been the topic of discussion because someone doesn't think she should be there, is safe.  She is being well taken care of.  

You seem to be well read and educated, based on your little quips you put at the end of your postings.  On this one, though, she has duped you.  

Please give the parents of the troubled teens in Mexico the same consideration you would have wanted when you were going through problems with your daughter.  Stop trying to second guess them because what they have chosen is not what you have chosen.  

It is because the parents love their daughters that they are there.  There is no strong arming.  There are no physical restraints.  The house is clean.  The house is actually very beautiful.  It is in a quiet, clean, peaceful community.

Peace be to you Ginger.

[Anonymous]

Which house and when where you there. They have moved. they moved last week. We live in Ajijic they move regularly and there is constant trouble there. Get a grip.

[Antigen]

If it's so good, then why do kids so frequently try to escape? Why are they not allowed off the property or even on the balcony w/o a staffer till they "comply"? And why all the double talk about that? I asked, straight out, if the kids were held against their will. Craig and Karen each gave me two different answers; 1) essentially saying that it's not a lock down facility and kids are free to come and go and 2) that sometimes kids need to be forced to do what their parents want. Why the double talk if there's nothing to hide?

Karen has always been decent and respectful to me. I usually disagree w/ her, but she is a nice person. Craig, on the other hand, has been extremely rude to me. Here's a great example here
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... &start=100

I ask a question, he responds with insults and ad hominems. But I don't hate the guy. I have questions and concerns about what he's doing. I might hate what he's doing down there. Don't know yet, haven't got enough hard info to make a determination. But I don't hate the guy. He, aparently, hates me enough to threaten to try an have my kids removed by CYS, to sue me for what looks like refusing to remove posts to these fora that he made himself and could (before I made them static) have removed himself.

So, why does Craig Rogers seem to hate me so much? What have I done to him to make him respond like this?

Our youth can not understand why society chooses to criminalize a behavior with so little visible ill effect or adverse social impact... These young people have jumped the fence and found no cliff.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/studies/nc/ncmenu.htm' target='_new'>Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse

[RTP2003]

On 2004-04-10 20:19:00, Anonymous wrote:


Your behavior is uncivilized.  Tomorrow is Resurrection Sunday.  Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for each one of us.  And every time people show hate towards one another as has been done regarding ALA, you crucify Him again.  

Could you pass the nails?

[Anonymous]

On 2004-04-11 11:37:00, Antigen wrote:

"If it's so good, then why do kids so frequently try to escape? Why are they not allowed off the property or even on the balcony w/o a staffer till they "comply"? And why all the double talk about that? I asked, straight out, if the kids were held against their will. Craig and Karen each gave me two different answers; 1) essentially saying that it's not a lock down facility and kids are free to come and go and 2) that sometimes kids need to be forced to do what their parents want. Why the double talk if there's nothing to hide?



Karen has always been decent and respectful to me. I usually disagree w/ her, but she is a nice person. Craig, on the other hand, has been extremely rude to me. Here's a great example here

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... &start=100



I ask a question, he responds with insults and ad hominems. But I don't hate the guy. I have questions and concerns about what he's doing. I might hate what he's doing down there. Don't know yet, haven't got enough hard info to make a determination. But I don't hate the guy. He, aparently, hates me enough to threaten to try an have my kids removed by CYS, to sue me for what looks like refusing to remove posts to these fora that he made himself and could (before I made them static) have removed himself.



So, why does Craig Rogers seem to hate me so much? What have I done to him to make him respond like this?

Ginger, our words, when written, have a tendancy to sometimes come across different differently than intended because facial and tones cannot be detected.  I cannot judge your intent, but what I see for myself in your written words, your words are very hostile.  The words written by you come across as bitter.  

I would imagine the kids are not allowed to do certain things until the staff is sure they will not try to do something stupid.  After all, it is there lack of maturity and doing stupid things (bad choices) that landed them there in the first place.

Ginger, how would you respond to someone sounding so bitter and hostile toward you regarding something in your life that they know nothing about?  Just a little to think about.

Have a blessed day.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-04-11 10:58:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Which house and when where you there. They have moved. they moved last week. We live in Ajijic they move regularly and there is constant trouble there. Get a grip."

You and I both know you are a liar.  They are in the same house they were over a month ago.  You are only trying to stir up trouble.  As far as them moving, what difference does it make?  People move for various reasons.  Bigger house.  Better house.  Better neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-04-11 11:46:00, RTP2003 wrote:

"

On 2004-04-10 20:19:00, Anonymous wrote:



Your behavior is uncivilized.  Tomorrow is Resurrection Sunday.  Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for each one of us.  And every time people show hate towards one another as has been done regarding ALA, you crucify Him again.  

Could you pass the nails?"

I acknowledge my sins on a daily basis and ask for forgiveness.  I won't ask about you, because, as my sins are between me and Jesus; you sins are between you and Jesus as well.

Have a blessed day.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-04-11 12:00:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2004-04-11 10:58:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Which house and when where you there. They have moved. they moved last week. We live in Ajijic they move regularly and there is constant trouble there. Get a grip."

You and I both know you are a liar.  They are in the same house they were over a month ago.  You are only trying to stir up trouble.  As far as them moving, what difference does it make?  People move for various reasons.  Bigger house.  Better house.  Better neighborhood.  "

Maybe you are not aware of the move.  I live approximately 4 blocks from the house where the girls were housed until last week. The house is now empty. would you like for me to post the address so others (and yourself) can go see for themselves?

[Antigen]

"

On 2004-04-10 20:19:00, Anonymous wrote:




Your behavior is uncivilized.  Tomorrow is Resurrection Sunday.  Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for each one of us.  And every time people show hate towards one another as has been done regarding ALA, you crucify Him again.  

When I was a Baptist, I prayed and prayed for a color TV and a new car. Then I found out that, if I were Catholic, I could just take the TV and the car and then pray for forgiveness.

Just get a load of some of Craig and Word of Wisdom's hateful and threatening words to me. The man has threatened in public to lie to my local child protective services agency in order to have my children taken into state custody. Not because he actually believes or has reason to believe that my kids are not well loved and cared for, but simply because he's angry with me or hates me or something. Ya'll should practice just a little or what you preach.

In all life one should comfort the afflicted, but verily, also, one should afflict the comfortable, and especially when they are comfortably, contentedly, even happily wrong

--John Kenneth Galbraith

[Antigen]

I would imagine the kids are not allowed to do certain things until the staff is sure they will not try to do something stupid.  After all, it is there lack of maturity and doing stupid things (bad choices) that landed them there in the first place.

No, they are there due to their parents having signed and paid for a contract to have them sent there. The kids are generally not acting outside of the societal norms of teenage behavior. If you read the student profile, you'll see that they clearly do not accept "students" to ALA who are acting out in very dangerous ways.

It's the "certain things" part that I'm interested in. I would not give my kid permission to, for example, camp away from home till I were confident that she could handle herself well and pick trustworthy companions with whom to go alone out into the woods. I wouldn't want her to do anything stupid. I would not, however, hire someone to kidnap her from her bed at night if she chose to disregard my instructions and go camping anyway. Instead, I'd hope and pray that none of the worst possible things happened while she were away and that she return home safe and sound. I'd rather be wrong and have to admit that I underestimated her than to be proven right in such a case.

But we're not talking about the normal kinds of "certain things" here.

ALA Student Manual
Return Step privileges
? May participate in various, assigned service roles (chores)
? Is encourage to display a family photo in their personal dorm space area
? Is permitted to participate in on-ground activities and may be outside on the patio with staff
? Is permitted to listen to Christian music on a personal CD player at approved times
? May make two, ten minute phone call per week to parents

and then, further on:

Students on new ?O? will lose all Step privileges until he completes special assignments determined by the school staff and student leaders.

I would infer from this that those phone calls home, family photos and other "priviledges" of "Return step" are subject to the staff's opinion of whether or not the "student" is buying into the program. That would include a phone call home or even a photo.

Explain to me how calling home could present an opportunity to do "something stupid", please?

Ginger, how would you respond to someone sounding so bitter and hostile toward you regarding something in your life that they know nothing about?  Just a little to think about.



Have a blessed day."

Well, how have I responded? This guy has insulted my looks, called me crazy, called me devil posessed, accused me of crimes, etc. How have I responded? Well, I just keep asking the same questions. Sometimes, I get some kind of answer. Then I get another kind of answer. Mostly, I get attacked and accused. I haven't made any threats and I don't intend to. All I do is host a forum where anyone can say what they want on just about any topic and no one will be censored. That seems to be the thing that gets under these folks' skin.

I have found that the best way to give advice to your children is to find out what they want and then advise them to do it

--Harry S. Truman

[Antigen]

On 2004-04-11 20:37:00, Crazy Mac wrote:

I have found that the best way to give advice to your children is to find out what they want and then advise them to do it
--Harry S. Truman

Thanks, Dad. I wish I'd have thought of that one.

The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.
--William Safire

[Anonymous]

On 2004-04-11 20:37:00, Antigen wrote:

"


IWell, how have I responded? This guy has insulted my looks, called me crazy, called me devil posessed, accused me of crimes, etc. How have I responded? Well, I just keep asking the same questions. Sometimes, I get some kind of answer. Then I get another kind of answer. Mostly, I get attacked and accused. I haven't made any threats and I don't intend to. All I do is host a forum where anyone can say what they want on just about any topic and no one will be censored. That seems to be the thing that gets under these folks' skin.

Good morning Ginger!  You sound much better today!  Why is what goes on down there so important to you?  Do you have a vested interest in it?  I know from your previous postings that you did not send your child there.  

Why people respond to you the way that they do, I cannot say.  I can only be accountable to God for myself.

I can tell you, in spite of the negative things that have been posted by the numerous individuals who have never been there, it is really a beautiful place.  

So, you have a choice to make, do you believe the negative rantings of someone concerning something they have only 4th and 5th hand information on, or do you consider the words of someone with first hand, personal experience on the subject?

I think that is something that a lot of those responding have not thought of.

Also, just a thought Ginger, as I detect you are a person who takes time to consider, the issue that has been brought up about the 4:00 a.m. tactic of taking the child down there, think this through.

In order to arrive down there and clear customs at a reasonable hour, the child would have had to get to the airport early.  I know from my personal experience of traveling internationally, that we had to be at the airport at least (AT LEAST) two hours ahead of departure.  We have not been given any insight as to what the weather was the day they traveled (allow extra time for bad weather) or have we been given any insight as to the distance the family lives from the airport.  That also plays into the equation.

All we have been given is the end of the equation, i.e., 4:00 a.m.  Also, what about construction on the road on the way there, and construction at the airport itself?  These are factors and considerations that must be taken into account.  Again, as we have not been given this information, we really can't know.

I know our local airport here, the first flight out in the morning is about 6:30 a.m.  If I were going internationally, I would have to be there at 4:30 a.m.  Travel time is another hour.  Getting through airport security just to get into the parking garage is another 30 minutes.  

With me?  So far, for me to fly out on the first flight, I would have to leave my home at 3:00 a.m.

So, leaving her home at 4:00 a.m. really isn't that bad a thing.  But again, we don't have all that background information.  We have only been given one little bit of information.

Also, I didn't read anywhere that she was taken by an escourt service.  That would lead me to believe that at least one of her parents took her down.  

Again, we are not in their situation.  We do not know what they have been through with the girl.  We do not know what all they have done to work with her prior to feeling that they needed to take this last resort action.

Ginger, you do a good thing to provide this forum for others to make their comments.  People need to vent.  Unfortuantely, too many people are jumping on a bandwagon that they don't know where it is headed.

Take care.  Have a blessed day. :smile:

[Anonymous]

Anon, are you Mrs. Craig Rogers?

[Anonymous]

On 2004-04-12 07:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2004-04-11 20:37:00, Antigen wrote:


"Well, how have I responded? This guy has insulted my looks, called me crazy, called me devil posessed, accused me of crimes, etc. How have I responded? Well, I just keep asking the same questions. Sometimes, I get some kind of answer. Then I get another kind of answer. Mostly, I get attacked and accused. I haven't made any threats and I don't intend to. All I do is host a forum where anyone can say what they want on just about any topic and no one will be censored. That seems to be the thing that gets under these folks' skin.

Good morning Ginger!  You sound much better today!  Why is what goes on down there so important to you?  Do you have a vested interest in it?  I know from your previous postings that you did not send your child there.  



Why people respond to you the way that they do, I cannot say.  I can only be accountable to God for myself.



I can tell you, in spite of the negative things that have been posted by the numerous individuals who have never been there, it is really a beautiful place.  



So, you have a choice to make, do you believe the negative rantings of someone concerning something they have only 4th and 5th hand information on, or do you consider the words of someone with first hand, personal experience on the subject?



I think that is something that a lot of those responding have not thought of.



Also, just a thought Ginger, as I detect you are a person who takes time to consider, the issue that has been brought up about the 4:00 a.m. tactic of taking the child down there, think this through.



In order to arrive down there and clear customs at a reasonable hour, the child would have had to get to the airport early.  I know from my personal experience of traveling internationally, that we had to be at the airport at least (AT LEAST) two hours ahead of departure.  We have not been given any insight as to what the weather was the day they traveled (allow extra time for bad weather) or have we been given any insight as to the distance the family lives from the airport.  That also plays into the equation.



All we have been given is the end of the equation, i.e., 4:00 a.m.  Also, what about construction on the road on the way there, and construction at the airport itself?  These are factors and considerations that must be taken into account.  Again, as we have not been given this information, we really can't know.



I know our local airport here, the first flight out in the morning is about 6:30 a.m.  If I were going internationally, I would have to be there at 4:30 a.m.  Travel time is another hour.  Getting through airport security just to get into the parking garage is another 30 minutes.  



With me?  So far, for me to fly out on the first flight, I would have to leave my home at 3:00 a.m.



So, leaving her home at 4:00 a.m. really isn't that bad a thing.  But again, we don't have all that background information.  We have only been given one little bit of information.



Also, I didn't read anywhere that she was taken by an escourt service.  That would lead me to believe that at least one of her parents took her down.  



Again, we are not in their situation.  We do not know what they have been through with the girl.  We do not know what all they have done to work with her prior to feeling that they needed to take this last resort action.



Ginger, you do a good thing to provide this forum for others to make their comments.  People need to vent.  Unfortuantely, too many people are jumping on a bandwagon that they don't know where it is headed.



Take care.  Have a blessed day. :smile: "

Sounds to me YOU have a vested interest in spinning the facts, not Ginger.  

Nevertheless, I hope you have a blessed day spreading your gospel of ignorance and denial.  

Those of us who have our moral compass straight, know that Jesus is not for sale.  Not in St. George, Utah or south of the border in some small, but oh, so *picturesque* town.


 :wave: