facts on ALA

[Antigen]

On 2004-06-26 19:08:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

I do what I'm able to rectify the situation.

Are you still putting your stamp of approval on some programs?  Even given your mistakes and your bad choices?  Are you still claiming to be an expert on which programs are "good" and which programs are "bad"?

Here's how the land lays on that one. From http://www.abundantlifeacademy.us/phpbb2/

Dear Karen (parental counsel)
Karen Burnett, Abundant Life Academy's Family Representative will take your questions and concerns and turn them into "teachable" moments. Karen, the parent of a "troubled teen" who has been restored, will share her wealth of experience, powerful testimony, and love for Christ. Karen is a minister to the parents of Abundant Life Academy. We suggest that when you need advice, counsel, or an open ear, "talk to Karen".

But if you press her for details on exactly what's going on at the campuses in Mexico, Chech Republic (rumored) or Utah, she'll confess that she never actually goes to any of those places, and so she doesn't really know squat about what goes on there. But she hopes her son will one day grow up to be a Program guru in his own right, after the model of Craig Rogers.

As de dawg chases his tail...

Sacred cows make the best hamburger.  
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search?tag=circlofmiamithem&keyword=mark+twain&mode=books' target='_new'> Mark Twain

[Anonymous]

Ginger - you really are out of line.
You never needed to "press" me for an admission of anything. I was always up front with you and who ever else cared to know. I always made it very clear I had not been to any of these places, except Utah.
As regards my son, I never said anything like that. I don't know what he'll do "for a liven" but as long as its legal and he is happy doing it, I'll be very pleased for him.
As for weather or not a rehab program can help: So you were in a bad one and were done more harm than good; that does not translate into all are bad and do more harm than good. There are ligit rehab programs and There are kids who are helped and there are kids who overcome life destroying addictions. Your quite right there is no magical mystery cure - And it is always hard work and there are always set backs - but it can and does make a difference for some kids. Would you really want to deny them the opportunity to get sober, get educated and get their life back on track?

[Antigen]

On 2004-06-27 11:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

I always made it very clear I had not been to any of these places, except Utah.

Then how in the world can you advise Program parents; strangers who've placed their kids in ALA's care? The truth is, you've never even laid eyes on their kids, let alone have any clue what Craig and his hirlings are doing to them while they're in Mexico, isn't it?

As for weather or not a rehab program can help: So you were in a bad one and were done more harm than good; that does not translate into all are bad and do more harm than good.

No, Karen, ad hominems will get you nowhere. You (as an agent of ALA) are asking parents to pay to have this highly invasive, drastic cure worked on their children. The onus is on you to show evidence to support your claim that the Program is safe and effective. Can you do that?

Once again, here's the standard of evidence I'm requesting. Do you have any more reson to believe that what you're hawking is beneficial and not harmful than George Washington's doctors had for bleeding him to death w/ leaches? Anything at all? That's not really asking too much, is it?

Would you really want to deny them the opportunity to get sober, get educated and get their life back on track?"

That's nothing but self serving blather. Timoclea nailed it whe she said "The Program" and two years will get you a vastly improved kid in *EXACTLY* the same way that "The Program" and four bucks will get you a cup of espresso at Starbucks."

There's no rational reason to think that the kids who wind up in these programs (some for issues as triffling as breaking a 7:30 cerfew!) would not grow up to become responsible, competent adults just like the the vast majority of their peers who are left to normal lives. Not alone or abandoned or neglected, mind you. Just raised in their parents' homes, in their home towns, taking their lumps along w/ their peers. You should understand that most of us who go through the Program lose our place in those important childhood friendship circles. You can drop in on old friends, but you can never go back.

 

From the bottom of any large organization looking up through the ranks, human greed and stupidity look a lot like a conspiracy.
--S. Gilbert

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
It is wrong to leave a stumbling block in the road once it has tripped you.

[Anonymous]

Well, I don't know if your intentionally misunderstanding what my limited roll was; or if its more a case of true misunderstanding. . .
But I was not an agent; I didn't recruit. I have not ask parents to pay for anything.
Actually, you have got to know this - I have explained it too many times.

The only evidence I have is my own experience - and if you wish to ignore it, and my account of it, then that's your privilege; but it's all I have to offer. Everyone I have spoken with knows this. I have never claimed otherwise.

As for the two year statement - that is some *other* program. ALA does not send some kind of Stepford kid home - I can assure you of that.

I agree with you on the trifling curfew. I agree that some times its the parents who need help. I think there are some cases when a good program can help a kid just by getting them out of their kooky home environment for a while and showing them there is a wider world with unlimited opportunities.  But most of the kids are kids with behavior far above and beyond missing even lenient curfews. You know this. You know we're not talking about the casual pot head or a few late nights out.

I have given a lot of thought to the friend ship problem. I noticed in that *other* program how often the parents commented how lonely the kid was. I never wanted that. I kept in touch with the closest friends and made sure he stayed in touch with them. I have at times regretted it - but might in time find myself glad again. Time will tell.
But as too 'old friends' in general; don't you find that for the most part, High School friends drift away in the natural corse of life? Making new friends being something that is also natural?

I really don't mean to seem as if I'm trying to change your mind on this issue Ginger. As I have often said, you make many good points and I have spent a lot of time contemplating your arguments. But there are areas where we disagree and that will probably always be the case. I don't mind debating the issues at hand; but I do ask that you try and refrain from intentionally misunderstanding me; or misrepresenting my point of view.

[Paige]

Well Karen I see you are still taking a bashing. I really have to question if you are a glutton for punishment or just what exactly is it that you get out of this. You obviously truly believe in what you are doing. Why do you feel the need to try to convince the people on this site that you and the program are right. Whether you are or not is a matter of opinion and I truly do not think that you are going to change anyones opinion who is logged on here. I hope you have been doing well since our last visit and while your here can you comment on the changes at ALA with the Nielsens leaving the fold to start their own school. Do the students go with the Nielsens or stay with ALA and whoever is in charge now??? So this is the second uprising with ALA - first with Josue and now with the Nielsens??? HMMMMM makes one think that maybe the constant in these problems is Craig and how he wants the place run? Just a question no accusations but any comments or expalnations would be welcome.

[Anonymous]

Hi Paige.
I don't feel I've taken a bashing - exactly.
Nor do I feel I'm a glutton for punishment; Altho I don't enjoy being intentionally misunderstood.
As for what I get out of this - Well I guess, really, the same as you or anyone - the chance to speak my mind on various subjects of interest - And, occasionally, to learn something.  
My interest in this board has nothing to do with ALA. It just happens to come up now and again; And when it does, I am usually asked for some kind of comment. I don't mind; but it IS frustrating when I am accused of being evasive when I don't know or lack details - And this is going to be one of those times.
I can make educated guesses - but thats all - And no one much wants the benefit of my educated guesses - So whats the point?
You say:
"Why do you feel the need to try to convince the people on this site that you and the program are right. "
I feel no such need.
As I said before:
//there are areas where we disagree and that will probably always be the case. I don't mind debating the issues at hand; but I do ask that you try and refrain from intentionally misunderstanding me; or misrepresenting my point of view. //

I suppose this will seem odd - But I tend to think of many here (even *some* of those who sometimes 'bash' me ) as friends. I feel I have gotten to 'know' them, after a fashion; I am comfortable exchanging ideas with them and sharing info with them - at least to the degree one can on an internet forum.

[Anonymous]

I can make educated guesses

Karen, will you share with this board how you are educated.  You say you are making "educated guesses."  First, how, when and where were you educated in general.  Then second, how, when and where were you educated on this industry.

[Anonymous]

"Altho I don't enjoy being intentionally misunderstood."

How have you been "intentionally" misunderstood?

[Paige]

Karen, I do understand when you talk about using this site to speak your mind on various experiences and to learn things. It has been many difficult months with Amanda being gone and I have learned quite a bit from people on this site and other venues. I can appreciate your concern for being misunderstood. We all share that to some degree and have all been misunderstood at one time or another.

 I have recently received emails from Amanda and she seems to be doing well and geting some sort of education which is more than what she got when she was with her parents. Unfortunately I have not found a legal way to bring Amanda home to us and we will just have to bide our time and see what happens. Though the rest of the family and myself do not agree with how this has been handled there is unfortunately nothing that we can do except pray that she will return to us safe and in better shape than she was when living with her parents. At least hopefully she is in a place where she can get an education and be respected for who she is and hopefully feel loved.

We miss her, her brother misses her. We still cannot communicate with her or see her. The emails were an exception that we recieved for a couple of days. It is a sad statement on our society that the children have to be sent away because of the parents lack of emotional stability and maturity but then again the best thing for her was to be away from them. It would have been better if she could have been with her brother or other family members who love her but again that comes down to lagalities and the law does not protect the child or the rights of relatives. All it does is point out the lack of rights. Amanda hopefully will be home within the next year and will go on to have a wonderful life. We have let her know that we will always have a room ready for her and she is dearly missed. Maybe there can be some sort of peace between her and her adoptive mother we can only hope so that Amanda cna get on with her life.  I do continue to monitor the situation and will until she is home.

I do have to say though, Craig Rogers does sound a bit off kilter in his writings. Bottom line he sounds like an emotional wreck what is up with that or are we all misinterperting what he is writing? Just a question not an accusation of any sort. You have to admit some of his ramblings are a bit creepy and I think that is probably why he elicits such a strong response from people, but any way. I hear he was in the Czech republic with some "students" as of the 4 of July and likes it there more so than Mexico. I also see that John and Stasia have been removed from the website so I guess that they are gone from the Mexico facility to open thier own school. I have a feeling that no matter how opposed many of us are to this type of program
I am afraid they are here to stay and flourish in our take no responsibility society. How heart breaking. Please pray for Amanda to come home safe. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Paige, it has been a while since you have checked in.  So, how did your meeting with the attorney go?  The last you reported was that you had a meeting with an attorney regarding the girl at ALA and your efforts to interfere with her parents decisions concerning her.  What advice did your attorney give you regarding your efforts to remove her?  Did you have any family members go with you?  What was their response?  Have you received any communications from the girl?  If so, what did she have to say? Be honest Paige.  You have once again opened this drama for the whole world to see.  How sad for the girl that you continue to insist on using her name.  Even the juvenile punks who commit crimes are given more consideration than you are giving to this girl who you claim to love.  If you really loved her, you would stop naming her on the web, and you would pray for her parents instead of bad mouthing them.  Does the girl support your bad mouthing of her parents?  I am inclined to think you are still mad that you did not get your way and your tantrum continues. YOU ARE OUT OF LINE.  If you don't think so, why don't you ask your attorney?  I would think based on all postings from the past, the parents have sufficient grounds to file for slander.  Paige, the Bible has a lot to say about what you are doing.

[Anonymous]

What kind of idiot (or sadistic motherfucker) would send their kid outside of the country to one of these places?

[Paige]

Apparently you are not knowlegeable in this area. There are no grounds for filing any types of suits, slander or otherwise. Thank you for your opinion. There are sufficient grounds for a person to file for custody of "AMANDA" However it takes money, alot of money that I do not have so that is the end of that story. Also I was advised that she would probably be home before it ever got into the court system. A sad statement on our society. Also if you have such opinions in matters that do not concern you, you have the right as anyone to post them. Until you come on with a name though I will disregard anything you have to say. Again thank you for your opinion. By the way  how do you know that Amanda is her real name. You don't. And I do pray for her parents as well as for the "GIRL" and for all of those who love her and have been robbed of her wonderful presence. You are out of line and the bible has alot to say about people like them and like you, go look in the mirror.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-07-13 15:31:00, Paige wrote:

"Apparently you are not knowlegeable in this area. There are no grounds for filing any types of suits, slander or otherwise. Thank you for your opinion. There are sufficient grounds for a person to file for custody of "AMANDA" However it takes money, alot of money that I do not have so that is the end of that story. Also I was advised that she would probably be home before it ever got into the court system. A sad statement on our society. Also if you have such opinions in matters that do not concern you, you have the right as anyone to post them. Until you come on with a name though I will disregard anything you have to say. Again thank you for your opinion. By the way  how do you know that Amanda is her real name. You don't. And I do pray for her parents as well as for the "GIRL" and for all of those who love her and have been robbed of her wonderful presence. You are out of line and the bible has alot to say about people like them and like you, go look in the mirror."

Actually, no one ever said anything about filing any lawsuit.   However, you yourself write about seeing an attorney with regard to getting the girl.  As far as the girl's name, do you now deny that the name you have been posting is not her name?  You were very careful to hide the identity of the brother by refering to him only by "J".   As far as being out of line, I am not the one trying to interfere with the parental decisions concerning the girl.  Back to the original question, you posted before that you were going to see an attorney, how did the meeting go?  Or do you have something to hide?  You brought it out in the open, looking for support.  The time frame has come and gone.  Simple question, what did your attorney tell you with regard to pursuing this?

[Anonymous]

Dumb ASS Anon, you asked, for the second time:

Back to the original question, you posted before that you were going to see an attorney, how did the meeting go? Or do you have something to hide? You brought it out in the open, looking for support. The time frame has come and gone. Simple question, what did your attorney tell you with regard to pursuing this?

Did you not read Paige's post?  She answered your question.  Here let me post her answer for you all by itself so that maybe your simple mind will get it and you won't have to ask it :wave:  yet again.

Paige said:

Also I was advised that she would probably be home before it ever got into the court system.

[Paige]

On 2004-07-13 18:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Dumb ASS Anon, you asked, for the second time:

Back to the original question, you posted before that you were going to see an attorney, how did the meeting go? Or do you have something to hide? You brought it out in the open, looking for support. The time frame has come and gone. Simple question, what did your attorney tell you with regard to pursuing this?

Did you not read Paige's post?  She answered your question.  Here let me post her answer for you all by itself so that maybe your simple mind will get it and you won't have to ask it :wave:  yet again.



Paige said:

Also I was advised that she would probably be home before it ever got into the court system.

"

Thank you!!!!