So...what does a parent do?

[Antigen]

Directed? How so?

The legislature is to society as a physician is to the patient. If a physician ignored side effects of medications like today's legislators ignore the side effects of their legislation, the physician would be accused of malpractice. I accuse today's legislators (with rare exception) of legislative malpractice. Many of the ills that are so obvious in our society are a direct result of previous legislation. Their solution? More laws!
-- John A. Bennett, DO

[Anonymous]

I'd say if ISAC dosen't like them there is a reason; although it may just be that they take escorted kids. I know they don't approve of excorting.

[confused]

I have read so much on so many different forums and spoken to so many parents, therapists and my ed.con. that it's becoming a blur i.e. "confused".    But Summit Prep. was rec. by a parent who says they have liberal visiting policy and they "can" take their son away for weekends when they like and they have and he says it is fine.  I'm still not necessarily "buying it" but I'm listening.  I really do not understand how a CEDU school like NWA could be personally visited by a reputable ed. con.,  who is pd by me not them, and deemed "good" if it is so widely recognized to be so horrible...If it is their job to assess a place don't they have some idea what is going on?  I'm listening to him too but I'm not nec. doing what he tells me.
As for relatives, there are no nice grannies living in Mayberry to take him in.  One is in a nursing home, the others are dead.  No divorce here so no stepfamilies either.  He truly has burned his bridges w/local schools and most trad. boarding schools (and they are not all on East Coast w/ivy-covered walls).  The local public school is bad news.  We're working on it and we are not going any further w/o his agreement and input.   Stop jumping all over me, I am not sending him to a CEDU school or a 12 mo. Emot. Gro. school that he can't ever leave w/o supervision.  But, I am very curious about this whole business as I never even knew it existed til we got into this recently.  Hence, my presence here.  To learn.  BUT, I have to say you are shooting yourselves in the foot to be so immature in how you "present" your arguments.  Of course, you are "impassioned" and obviously totally freaked out by the abuse, etc.  But, when you resort to yelling and cursing, mockery, sarcasm, etc are you really accomplishing anything?  You sound like idiots.  Who wants to take you seriously when you talk and act like that?  I'm listening but it is really hard to get  past all that.  By the way,  I am no right wing Christian fundamentalist.  Ok?  talk, don't yell...I can hear you better.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-03-29 16:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You're better off not trusting ISAC either!  Their RED FLAGS are directed toward many schools with a very high success rate, they just don't like them.  Go figure.  "

"High success rate"---that depends on how you define "success," doesn't it?

There's an interesting study out there about Academy at Swift River and depression.

The former students and parents that the researcher gained access to via ASR were almost uniformly positive about the school and how much it had helped them with their depressive symptoms, etc.

HOWEVER---objective measures of depression (symptom-focused diagnostic questionnaire commonly used by clinicians to measure depression in patients) demonstrated NO IMPROVEMENT.

So you had parents and student who claimed to have been helped, and may have genuinely believed they were helped---who were not in actual fact helped.

That study is one of very few even remotely scientifically robust studies on TBS's and their "success rates."

TBS claims of success rates and their testimonials are as meaningless as the pre-FDA patent medicine's medicine show testimonials and claims of success.

There's almost universally no disinterested, rigorous clinical studies backing up the claims of these places.

If these places were drugs, the FDA would be all over them like white on rice for unsubstantiated claims.

And that may be what we need for "treatment" methods.  We may need an equivalent of the FDA where particular treatment methods have to submit the same kind of clinical studies as new drugs do to be approved, and so that the claims you can make regarding a treatment method's "success rates" have to be backed up in the same way that the claims for various drugs do.

I have no problem with new or experimental treatment methods.  I just want truth in advertising so that they have to tell the customer up front that their "success rates" are *not* backed up by rigorous clinical studies.

I'm not a mental health expert--I wouldn't call anyone without a PhD in clinical psychology or an MD licensed psychiatrist a "mental health expert."

But I *do* have a bachelor of science in applied psychology from a nationally ranked university.

For me, ISAC's "red flags" pass the sniff test.

If you have questions about those red flags, though, I'd recommend that you *not* consult random people over the internet, anonymous or otherwise.

Instead, make an appointment with a licensed clinical psychologist in your area, take the list of red flags, and ask his or her opinion on whether those red flags seem prudent on their face---understanding that he or she can't give an endorsement on specific programs without actually investigating them.

Ask a qualified professional if those red flags make sense---and notice that *I'm* the one willing to stand my opinion that they *do* up to the light of the professional opinion of a random licensed clinician in your area---as opposed to the person touting "high success rates" who probably devoutly hopes that you *don't* take the red flag list to a  licensed clinician for his/her professional opinion on whether they make sense or not.

That should tell you a lot, right there.

[confused]

Somebody mentioned Oak Creek Canyon School in Arizona?  Any personal experience w/that school?
By the way somebody asked earlier if I had considered outpatient therapy at home for my son..  He has been doing that for years.  As have I...and we have all been in family therapy.   AND...guess what?  We go camping as a family!   Parents w/ troubled kids are not ALL selfish and too busy for their children...we've certainly made mistakes and hindsight is great....but who hasn't?

[Anonymous]

Oak Creek Canyon School in Arizona is for kids having problems in school related to AD/HD.  Of course there are other symptoms that the ADDer exhibits, anger, doing w/o thinking, not understanding there are consequences, high risk behavior.  It's NOT for very troubled teens who have drug/alcohol/cutting/anorexia, etc.  They do have therapy, however.  Best advice is to call them as I don't have inside knowledge.  Just what a mom I know has told me.  In Arizona kids have to agree to this, which means agree to go and stay.  Wish it wasn't so, but it is.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-03-30 09:19:00, confused wrote:

"I have read so much on so many different forums and spoken to so many parents, therapists and my ed.con. that it's becoming a blur i.e. "confused".    But Summit Prep. was rec. by a parent who says they have liberal visiting policy and they "can" take their son away for weekends when they like and they have and he says it is fine.  I'm still not necessarily "buying it" but I'm listening.  I really do not understand how a CEDU school like NWA could be personally visited by a reputable ed. con.,  who is pd by me not them, and deemed "good" if it is so widely recognized to be so horrible...If it is their job to assess a place don't they have some idea what is going on?  I'm listening to him too but I'm not nec. doing what he tells me.

As for relatives, there are no nice grannies living in Mayberry to take him in.  One is in a nursing home, the others are dead.  No divorce here so no stepfamilies either.  He truly has burned his bridges w/local schools and most trad. boarding schools (and they are not all on East Coast w/ivy-covered walls).  The local public school is bad news.  We're working on it and we are not going any further w/o his agreement and input.   Stop jumping all over me, I am not sending him to a CEDU school or a 12 mo. Emot. Gro. school that he can't ever leave w/o supervision.  But, I am very curious about this whole business as I never even knew it existed til we got into this recently.  Hence, my presence here.  To learn.  BUT, I have to say you are shooting yourselves in the foot to be so immature in how you "present" your arguments.  Of course, you are "impassioned" and obviously totally freaked out by the abuse, etc.  But, when you resort to yelling and cursing, mockery, sarcasm, etc are you really accomplishing anything?  You sound like idiots.  Who wants to take you seriously when you talk and act like that?  I'm listening but it is really hard to get  past all that.  By the way,  I am no right wing Christian fundamentalist.  Ok?  talk, don't yell...I can hear you better.















"

Okay, I'm not yelling, and having seen my sister's trouble with her stepson, I can sympathize with your situation.

I understand that unfortunately your particular local public schools are horrible.

You may have no choice but residential treatment for this child, especially if he's violent.

A school with liberal visitation policies, uncensored mail, no lockdown, and good special ed. staff may be the very best you can do.

You may also want to look for halfway kinds of programs that will try to help him get a job to defray some of his expenses and focus on as much independent living as possible.

My nephew just didn't have the smarts to be able to figure out when he was bringing down trouble on himself or not, didn't have the memory to follow directions and help out with basic chores, and was unfortunately (forgive me for the unflattering comparison) a lot like a large dog with thumbs---he'd masturbate in front of small children or anywhere there wasn't an adult to tell him not to, he'd steal smaller kids' candy or money or any treat or money that wasn't locked up, etc.  Punishment really didn't work---just made him sullen and angry and dangerous.  He really couldn't be left alone--he needed constant supervision and needed trouble not to be available for him to get into.

Living in a house without smaller children removed a lot of his leeway to get himself in trouble, as did locking up anything you didn't want him to have, but he just is always going to need close adult supervision, and if his mom and stepdad weren't a two-parent family, there's no way they could have handled him.  It's hard enough as it is.

So I know you, as a single parent, may be faced with a situation where residential care is the only way to keep your disabled son from getting himself into huge trouble.

It sounds like your son may not be as disabled as my nephew, but I do feel for you.

Just realize that there's a lot of bad residential care out there, and you can't tell the difference between good and bad by "if it costs a lot it must be good"---because some of the bad care costs an arm and a leg.  Try to get your son's buy in and get the best residential care you can find if you and he decide to go that route.

If he has enough self-control to work a job, and enough understanding to follow the safety rules, then work and some kind of anger-management counseling and maybe medication might be an alternative, depending on your situation.

I hope you find the best possible option for your son and your situation.

[confused]

Last week I spoke to NWA and spent an hour on the phone with them.  Only after many questions did it become apparent that he wouldn't be able to leave w/o supervision or rarely be visited.  They even said he could graduate from high school in less time than a year but HE would want to stay longer to finish the emot. growth program because by that point they don't want to leave because they are so attached to everybody and they love it so much and they see how much it has helped.  I was so shocked by the whole thing because there is no mention of any of that on the web site or the info they mail out.  It was presented as a program that filled a special niche for 17 and 18 year olds that have been side-tracked and now want to do an intensive year to finish high school while getting therapeutic support for emotional issues while living in a gorgeous part of the country.  Sounded great til I dug further in my questions.  It wasn't volunteered up front at all and they said, "It's not a prison, they like it".  I met w/ his home therapist who is a licenced Ph.D. Psychologist.  I described my conversation.  He said even ignoring my emotional recitation, he could tell it was the opposite of what my son needed.  He felt comfortable with Nature/the Wilderness being the dealer of consequences but he got the "willies" from people having that kind of control and opportunity for indoctrination behind closed doors for that long.

[Anonymous]

Oh, also, a lot of the animus of survivors in this Forum is because they weren't disabled, they were just basically normal pain-in-the-neck teens with nutty parents who were gullible enough to fall for a con job.

I think most of them, when they get past their justifiable anger at what was done to them and is being done to other kids like them understand that there are some situations where residential treatment is necessary and legitimate, and just want it to be *good* residential treatment.

If it had happened to you, it might still be one of your hot buttons, too, eh?

I know, you don't need to be yelled at, but realize that not all of the non-program people here are yelling.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-03-30 09:47:00, confused wrote:

"Last week I spoke to NWA and spent an hour on the phone with them.  Only after many questions did it become apparent that he wouldn't be able to leave w/o supervision or rarely be visited.  They even said he could graduate from high school in less time than a year but HE would want to stay longer to finish the emot. growth program because by that point they don't want to leave because they are so attached to everybody and they love it so much and they see how much it has helped.  I was so shocked by the whole thing because there is no mention of any of that on the web site or the info they mail out.  It was presented as a program that filled a special niche for 17 and 18 year olds that have been side-tracked and now want to do an intensive year to finish high school while getting therapeutic support for emotional issues while living in a gorgeous part of the country.  Sounded great til I dug further in my questions.  It wasn't volunteered up front at all and they said, "It's not a prison, they like it".  I met w/ his home therapist who is a licenced Ph.D. Psychologist.  I described my conversation.  He said even ignoring my emotional recitation, he could tell it was the opposite of what my son needed.  He felt comfortable with Nature/the Wilderness being the dealer of consequences but he got the "willies" from people having that kind of control and opportunity for indoctrination behind closed doors for that long.









 "

So you see what we mean about *good* residential treatment unfortunately being difficult to find through all the *bad* stuff out there.

Unfortunately, your experience of finding a place that looks good on paper and on their web site and the truth doesn't come out until you start digging is more common than uncommon, and is why other forum participants have been trying to warn you it's a Buyer Beware industry.  Big Time.

Another thing you want to watch for is the place's policy wrt using restraints.  It's really hard to find a place where restraints are used as a last resort and staff are trained (outside the program itself) to *de-escalate* non-compliance situations with the patient and treat any restraint situation as serious and potentially life-threatening to the patient and something to be avoided.

*Most* residential treatment facilities treat any kind of non-compliance with the rules as a situation where they're going to insist and get in the patient's face and get loud, which *escalates* the situation until the patient loses self-control and becomes threatening or hysterical enough to "justify" the application of restraints under whatever their policy is.

The reason is that that's the instinctive response of almost any authority figure in a residential setting to non-compliance with the rules---insist and escalate.  For the staff that would be applying the restraints, or other staff, to actually de-escalate non-compliance situations they have to actually be trained in good techniques for doing that, and to understand that any application of restraints is a risk to the life of the patient, no matter how carefully or skillfully applied.

It's not an easy thing, because the staffer is naturally afraid of how big the patient is and the danger to the staffer if the patient goes violently berzerk---the instinctive thing is to slap the patient in physical or chemical restraints to reduce the risk to the staffer.

De-escalation techniques protect the staffer and the other patients, but they aren't exactly intuitive in that situation.

You may not be able to find or afford a place where the staff are properly trained to de-escalate restraint situations.

You may just have to find the best place you can on the other criteria and live with the restraint problem.  It sucks, and it's one reason why residential treatment is to be avoided if at all practical and safe.

[warriorprincess]

On 2004-03-29 16:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You're better off not trusting ISAC either!  Their RED FLAGS are directed toward many schools with a very high success rate, they just don't like them.  Go figure.  "

could you be more specific?  which schools have the RED FLAGS but are successful, and what evidence do you have?

[Anonymous]

Sorry to be posting anonymously, but I'm new here and have not yet registered and picked a passwork I'll remember.  

Carlbrook School in South Boston, Virginia is an excellent school.  It's for kids who have completed a wilderness program, and pretty much have their act together.  They have a web site.

Good luck!

[Deborah]

I personally would be leary. Take a look at how many staff are ex-Academy at Swift River(below). Appears to me that they are attempting to create a different spin on the same old TBS, or perhaps they have moved on to create a facility for less "defiant and struggling" teens who are capable of adhering to their "code of ethics". Do they monitor phone calls? Are the participants allow access to public phones, parents, family? What forms of punishment are used? LGA workshops?

http://www.carlbrook.org/faculty/index.htm
Tim Brace, B.A., M.C.
Dean of Students
A graduate of the United States Naval Academy, Mr. Brace has worked with students and their families for over 25 years. He founded and served as Executive Director at the Academy at Swift River, served as Headmaster at Mt. Bachelor Academy, Headmaster at Cedu School, and Headmaster at Rocky Mountain Academy. Mr. Brace, who also holds a Master of Counseling from Arizona State University, has not only vested considerable experience in the field, but he has also been instrumental in shaping the industry as a whole. His vision and innovation have spawned a generation of educational programs that have impacted families across the country. His wealth of knowledge in working with young people is virtually unmatched.

Glenn F. Bender, A.B., M.A., Ph.D.
Dean of Academics
With a Master of Arts degree in Philosophy and a Doctorate in Philosophy and Educational Policy Studies from the University of Wisconsin, Dr. Bender brings extensive academic and administrative experience to the Board of Regents. During a 25 year career in education, he has served as Dean of Academics and Dean of Admissions at the Academy at Swift River, Director of Academics at Cascade School, Director of Admissions at Blue Ridge School, Director of Admissions and Director of Academics at Rocky Mountain Academy, and Professor of Philosophy at the University of Southwestern Louisiana.

Andrew Coe, B.A., M.S.
Supervising Director
Mr. Coe, who has a long history of experience working with adolescents and families, holds a Bachelor of Arts in Psychology from Furman University and a Master of Science in Marriage and Family Therapy from the University of Kentucky. His work experience has included individual and group counseling as well as supervisory positions at Presbyterian College, Hidden Lake Academy in Georgia, and the Academy at Swift River in Massachusetts. Most recently, Mr. Coe served as the Assistant Director of Counseling at the Academy at Swift River, where he was responsible for the oversight, development and supervision of both students and counselors.

Jennifer McArthur, B.A., M.S.W.
Advisor
Ms. McArthur, who holds a Bachelor of Arts degree from Warren Wilson College and a Master of Social Work from Brigham Young University, has worked for several years with adolescents of varied backgrounds, including at-risk youth and socio-economically challenged populations. Her experience includes counseling positions with Wasatch Mental Health, Trend Community Mental Health, and Alldredge Academy.

Robert Somers, B.S., M.S.W. (in progress)
Supervising Director
With nearly ten years of counseling experience, Mr. Somers has worked with troubled adolescents in a variety of therapeutic settings. A Virginia native, Mr. Somers holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Communication and Recreation Management from Radford University and is currently finishing his Master of Social Work degree at Canyon College. His former positions include shift leader at Northwest Academy, lead counselor at Charter Westbrook Hospital, therapist at Colonial Hospital, team leader at Rocky Mountain Academy, and most recently senior counselor at the Academy at Swift River.

Peter Williams, B.A., M.A., L.C.S.W., L.M.F.C.
Advisor
Mr. Williams holds a Bachelor of Arts from Southern Methodist University, a Master of Education in Counseling Psychology from Antioch Graduate School, and completed post-graduate training in Analytical Psychology at the C.G. Jung Institute in Boston. A Licensed Certified Social Worker and Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Mr. Williams has worked as a clinical therapist for many years, most recently as a senior counselor at the Academy at Swift River.

More on Swift River:
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 15&forum=9
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 26&forum=9
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 49&forum=9

Tim Brace appears to be involved with or have had involvement with some of the more cleverly deceptive programs of the CEDU persuasion.

0/1997  Founded by Tim Brace, Mt Bachelor, CEDU. Instrumental in creation of NATSAP.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... ews04.html

4/1997  Krieder moves from Mt Bachelor to ASR.  Bitz to be Head.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een03.html

7/1997  ASR opens.  Glenn Bender Admissions.  Sister school to Mt Bachelor Oregon.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... /np01.html

8/1997 John Powers Headmaster, Glenn Bender Adm Dir, Brett Carey Dean of Students, and Rea Kreider as Dean of Academics
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een03.html

4/1998 Brian Ray new Asso Dean of Adm. Brian previously had been Asst Dir of Adm at Hidden Lake Academy in Georgia
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een02.html

6/1998  Many staff from HLA move to ASR, including Bentz and Ray.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een03.html

Want to know more about the CEDU method? If this link doesn't work, do a search here for CEDU.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/search.php

[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2004-05-23 19:15 ]

[Anonymous]

This looks like Swift River has had almost a total turnover in non-academic staff in the past year.  Either that, or they only recently updated their website.

[Anonymous]

i went to asr when it first opened and none of the same people are there except for maybe one teacher, some administration, and very few counslers who came when mt parents finally took me out.  I can only speak as to what happened when i was there but all phone calls were monitered and if we started to complain the phone would be hung up. We were allowed one phone call a week for ten to fifteen minutes.  Punishment included self studies, work projects, bans, and reflections.  The 11 months were the most tramitizing in my life. the fact that so many staff do leave it is hard for kids to trust there mentors because they always leave and most of the kids which go there already have trust issues.  I had 5 mentors in less than a year when you are supposed to have one throughout the program.