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Offline Anonymous

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GRAD POSTING
« on: March 25, 2004, 11:54:00 PM »
POSTED ON VOY -  SOUNDS LIKE THIS GRADUATE OF CROSS CREEK IS THE REAL DEAL.  NAME IS TATIANA


Date Posted: 12:57:33 03/18/04 Thu

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Ok wow... WOW... yeah I only read like maybe two post and I am like...oh wow. Now I can not say if people are lying. First off I am not that sort of person and secondly everyones experience is different... I will tell you mine. I was sent to Cross Creek in Jan. 2001... and left March 2003 so I was there for 26 months... nice long stay.

I went in hating myself beyond belief... I tried to kill myself 3 days before I was sent, I was big into cutting, I was getting physically violent, I smoked, I drank, I ran away, I was having sex with people I didn't know... yeah know the usual stuff for people who get sent to programs... The main reason I was sent was because my parents were scaried that I would be dead with in the next month. I had gotten extremely suicidal and I know I would have been dead... thats a fact! Luckly I was sent to Cross Creek. Now I will be the first to tell you that it was not a joy to be there... I refer to it as HELL! No joke about it... the rules were hell to follow, I hated being told when to pee, eat, drink, sleep... I hated all of it... When I first got there my way of fighting back was to punch, kick, scream, and be a right little bitch... but then I started to work...haha after a year of fighting... I had two really great therapists... We worked on my core issue..which is being molested when I was little... It took alot of time and alot of patience with me because I was a really butt head to work with on this... But eventually I realized that I hated the way I was living and I wanted to stop feeling like shit everyday... the only way to do that was to face my past. It was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life... and who was there to help me... my therapist, my parents, and the friends I had in the program...

Now... I have always called myself a fighter of the program... not against the program... No I am not against it... but I stood up for myself when I was in there... If I didn't agree with something I stood up and said so.. haha I was known for doing that.. Sure I got in trouble some of the time...but when people started seeing that I wasn't doing it to be a butt head.. I was doing it to stand for what I believed in I started to get respect for it. The biggest problem I ever had with the program was that I did not want to be molded into who the program thought I should be... I wanted to be the one doing the molding...not the program. So thats what I fought for... I fought to find myself. And I am glad I was in the program to do that because I never would have done it with out it...

Ok I think I have said some controversial things...haha... thats just me... Ok now to get down to points so that people are aware as to where I stand.

Program: It was hell but I had to go through hell in order to change! Not everyone has to go through that to change but I did...

I am thankful to the program because of everything I learned in it... Some of the things I learned I learned from the things I did not have... Ok did that make sense? Anyways I know how to control my anger now because I use to have to control it when I got stupid categories for stupid things...like walking on the grass...god I hated that rule... but it in the end helped me because now I can control my anger and I rarely get pissed off over little things. Also I appreciate so much in this world of ours... I mean alot of people lose their ability to appreciate the little things in this world... I haven't... because it was all taken away from me...now that I have it back.. I apprecitate it even more!

I have always hated the seminars because I do think they are fake most of the time, but I also see that they get people to open up and thats good...for me they were a bunch of crap. I also think people are mean for no reason...but it did help me grow stronger...just for the fact that I hated it so much...hehe

I was never abused by anyone in the program... I was a cutter so I was the one abusing myself. I also never saw anyone get abused. I do not agree with abuse having been sexually abused when I was little so if I ever saw it or if it had been done to me I would of spoke up about it.

Main point: Program hell... but if I had gone to heaven I never would have changed!

I am only speaking for Cross Creek... I can not speak for any other program or against any other program. If you have any questions for me I will answer them I am a very open person... I am also not all for graduation of the program... I think once you have gotten it you've gotten it and if you really want to change you will. I did graduate however... and for me it was very meaning full...not the actually graduation that was boring...hehe.. I mean having to have the patients to wait for it and then the over all amasing feeling I got after... The work doesn't begin till after you have been home though...and then I believe after you have been out a year then you can truely say how it affected you. I had my year date this month... and I cant say that I am a perfect little angel or that my life is perfect... But I can say is that for once in my life I can say... I WANT TO LIVE IT! I also make choices for me.. I am 18... some times I make stupid choices but I take responsibility now for my actions... I can control my anger... I rarely ever get angry(haha my nickname in the program was the angry child) I appreciate the little things. I am also very open to other peoples views about things...which I use to be very closed to...but seeing and hearing about so many different things in the program with the girls there I learned that everyone has their battles to fight and I dont need to get in the way of their fighting those battles... Now sure their are some things I think are not good...my biggest one being drugs... But I have friends who do them and I do not judge them all I ask is that they don't ask me to join because I dont do it. As long as they respect that they are my friend.

The fact that I am not trying to kill myself, I'm not prego, I am not high on drugs, I have a good relationship with my parents, I dont get passed out drunk, oh and did I mention I am ALIVE! Yeah because of that I know the program worked for me... For some I know it doesn't work for and thats ok...for me it did and I am sorry for those it didn't!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2004, 01:47:00 AM »
WOW!  She got that the "stupid" rules had a deeper meaning!  She's a keeper!
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Offline RTP2003

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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2004, 01:55:00 AM »
You need to do drugs and have sex to snap you out of the brainwashing of which you are obviously a victim.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2004, 11:46:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-03-25 22:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

"WOW!  She got that the "stupid" rules had a deeper meaning!  She's a keeper!  "


I'm one of the first ones to rail against the stupid rules.  Here's why:

They are appropriate in a "boot camp" setting---military boot camp works well with them.

They are *not* appropriate in a setting where the patient is "section 8."

This young woman's experience was in large measure luck.  Luck that she didn't develop worse psychiatric problems from the harsh regime--that she tempered instead of breaking.

You can't treat real children like omelettes where it's okay to break a few eggs.  Okay, correction:  You obviously *can*, but you shouldn't.

This young woman was an appropriate candidate for residential treatment, no question, because of the cutting.

But there was also great risk that the regime provided would provoke a suicide or add PTSD on top of her other problems.

There is a good, sound *reason* why the military doesn't accept people with certain psychological problems, and why if they find the problems in boot camp they discharge that recruit "for the good of the service."

My problem with boot camp regimes (take away everything and you earn it back through learning the proper behaviors--"nothing is free") is not that they don't work when applied to the right sort of problems.  My problem with boot camp regimes is that to avoid the omelette "have to break a few eggs" result, you have to screen potential participants very carefully.

Unfortunately, the programs only seem to screen for whether the patient will be too dangerous to *them* to handle, and whether the parents have enough cash.

This patient also probably would have had a positive result from supportive therapy in a residential setting with the same close supervision to prevent cutting but without the stupid rules just for the sake of stupid rules.

Believe it or not, I do (and always have) understand the point of the stupid rules---it's that rules are rules and you'll always have to cope with stupid rules and to give you practice coping with them in a controlled environment.  It trains in, firmly, unconditional obedience to authority.

I just don't happen to agree that unconditional obedience to authority is a *good* thing.

Still, for *some* problems it's appropriate.

My biggest problem with the programs is that they seem to tend to be rather one-size-fits-all with the cashectomy from the parents being the priority.

One of the fundamentals in mental health rules and ethics for adults is that a patient with a mental illness, even one that occasionally makes him or her dangerous, to receive treatment in the least restrictive form that is effective for the treatment of that problem.

Minors don't have the same *legal* rights, but the  underlying ethical principle still holds.  

Putting a major depressive in a mental hospital where you can watch him/her night and day, either on medication or in a padded room, and just keeping him or her there for life *also* "works"---but mental hospitals aren't allowed to do that anymore, and for damned good reasons.

It doesn't say here that anybody ever considered getting this girl stable on medication in a supportive, well-supervised care environment and then releasing her to continue medication and supportive therapy on an outpatient basis.

Supportive models of therapy have just as good a track record as confrontational models, without the downside--psychiatric casualties of PTSD in some program patients.

One dirty little secret the programs are keeping is that there would be a certain statistical amount of improvement just from warehousing these kids for a year with no therapy at all---because a lot of the problems the parents are upset about are a function of the physiological brain development stage of humans that age.  In a year, the kid's frontal lobes will be more developed, his/her logic abilities and ability to reason cause and effect will be more developed, his/her hormones will be more settled, he/she will have more impulse control----all because of physiological development that would have happened no matter where the kid was.

Parents compare their kid who comes home a year later to who he/she was before he/she went.  Program kids compare *themselves* a year later to who they were before they went.  What they *don't* do is compare their coming home behavior to a statistical sample of controls with the same problems who *didn't* go and just grew up some in that year of development from their normal daily lives.

Some of the not directly abusive programs that are restrained in their use of restraints, provide sound nutrition and the full nights' sleep teens require (more than an adult), that just have strict rules are appropriate treatments for *some* problems.

But there needs to be oversight to make sure that kids are not placed in programs when they either don't have problems requiring residential treatment or when for their particular set of problems that particular kind of program is contraindicated.

Programs also need government oversight to ensure the kids get: enough sleep; nutrition that is appropriate calorically, is a balanced diet, and is supplemented with vitamins where necessary to reach US RDA; adequate and clean shelter and clothing; proper medical care; and educational support appropriate to the child (an IEP).

Any residential program that ever uses restraints needs oversight---whether for children or adults.  There need to be training programs and certification, you need to have to be certified to apply restraints as an employee, and all patients who may be subject to restraint need a physical especially checking heart health at or prior to admission and a check of health including heart health post-restraint.  All use of restraints needs to be logged and reviewed by a state oversight agency.

Unnecessary program admissions are like unnecessary full-term C-sections.  They "work" in that at the end of the procedure the woman is no longer pregnant, and many women have a good result  in that they have the baby and are no longer pregnant, but you also have many women with complications from the unnecessary procedure that they wouldn't have had if you'd only done the medically necessary C-sections and let labor run its course with proper supportive care for the rest.

I'm glad this former patient is okay.

But she's "anecdotal evidence."  And both sides can produce anecdotes all day--the plural of anecdote is not "data."

The limited sound research done on these programs does not support that their model is clinically more effective than less restrictive competing models for certain sets of patients.

The research done on "Outward Bound" doesn't transfer well to these programs with major differences in their treatment model and patient/participant pool.

I'm not against all residential treatment.  I'm against involuntary residential treatment for conditions that don't require it.  I'm against models of residential treatment that are inappropriate and contraindicated for the particular problems of that particular patient.  I'm against residential treatment that is neglectful or that uses restraints too readily or applied by inadequately trained personnel.

I want reform, regulation, and oversight.

Red tape is a pain in the ass, but some of it is sometimes necessary.

Many things need less red tape and regulation.  The troubled teen residential treatment industry needs more.

A lot of these places could be reformed if you put together a traditional prep school, not lockdown, under traditional prep school faculty, facilities, and rules, with a therapy and acute care facility on the same grounds.

If a kid meets the criteria that in an adult would justify involuntary commitment, put him in the ward until stabilized.  Once stabilized, stick him in the dorms on the prep school side with classes, etc., and let him walk over for therapy/psychiatric appointments.  Medication for outpatients could be done on the DOTS system in the cafeteria.

When admitting a new kid to the facility, *don't* start them all off on the ward---not unless the kid meets the same criteria as an adult for involuntary commitment.  Put him/her in the dorms and combine prep school with any necessary outpatient therapy/treatment.

*Don't* make "group" therapy mandatory for all patients---it invites psychotherapy-cult type abuses.  Use the same standards for what therapy is appropriate for what patient used to individually assess patients in normal mental health clinics.  Some patients at some point may just need medication maintenance and not therapy.  Some may need neither after a limited course of therapy.  Some may need short courses of therapy as and if problems arise.

I don't think these places would get nearly as much flak if they were real prep schools with treatment services attached, where if the parents were nuts and the kid was basically sane it would end up with the kid essentially just being in a decent boarding/prep school instead of reliving "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest."

The more these places resist oversight and reform, the more convinced I get that they need it.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2004, 01:04:00 AM »
Titiana posted this -word for word, on the WWASPS BBS.  She and other grads post all the time and they are honest and not kicked off for speaking their views, as some would like to believe.

To the long winded person above:  WWASPS is not one size fits all.  Even the individual centers are not.  The rules are pretty much the same, and a student can choose to break the rules, or be a robot.  99.9% break the rules until they get that life is a series of laws and rules.  You break the rule, you choose the consequence.  

I also disagree with creating an artificial happiness by drugging a depressed or angry person, adult or child.  In an uncontrolled environment, it can mean many years of hiding behind the drugs and never looking at the root cause of the anger or suicide ideation.  I guess that's okay if you plan on being on the drugs the rest of your life.  If you are in a controlled environment, choose therapy away from that environment or decide that one day you've had enough, then the pain can be dealt with without covering it up with medication.  

Titiana is herself.  The real deal.  She fought hard to be a victim of molestation and to hate herself or blame herself for most of her life.  What I get from experiencing her life in writing, is that she chooses to love herself, make and learn from her mistakes, do what makes her happy, without hurting herself anymore.  

Yes, maybe money did buy that for her, and what could have been a better investment in the life of a very passionate young woman who just a few years ago wanted to die?  

My own son was destroying himself - mostly stemming from feeling like a failure, as an ADDer.  Today, several years after graduation and medication free, is true to himself.  Our lives are not perfect, wouldn't want it to be.  But, he has no scars, emotional or otherwise, from being in a Program.  I do agree with Tatiana.  I'm sorry for those that it didn't work for, and they are few, thank goodness.  

I will say that I've met hundreds of families, and don't know of a single one that is worse off, suicidal, etc., than before they chose to be a part of this program.  Not even close.

It's not about what's right or wrong, it's about what works or what doesn't - to coin a seminar phrase..hehehehe
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2004, 06:12:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-03-26 22:04:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Titiana posted this -word for word, on the WWASPS BBS.  She and other grads post all the time and they are honest and not kicked off for speaking their views, as some would like to believe.



To the long winded person above:  WWASPS is not one size fits all.  Even the individual centers are not.  The rules are pretty much the same, and a student can choose to break the rules, or be a robot.  99.9% break the rules until they get that life is a series of laws and rules.  You break the rule, you choose the consequence.  



I also disagree with creating an artificial happiness by drugging a depressed or angry person, adult or child.  In an uncontrolled environment, it can mean many years of hiding behind the drugs and never looking at the root cause of the anger or suicide ideation.  I guess that's okay if you plan on being on the drugs the rest of your life.  If you are in a controlled environment, choose therapy away from that environment or decide that one day you've had enough, then the pain can be dealt with without covering it up with medication.  



Titiana is herself.  The real deal.  She fought hard to be a victim of molestation and to hate herself or blame herself for most of her life.  What I get from experiencing her life in writing, is that she chooses to love herself, make and learn from her mistakes, do what makes her happy, without hurting herself anymore.  



Yes, maybe money did buy that for her, and what could have been a better investment in the life of a very passionate young woman who just a few years ago wanted to die?  



My own son was destroying himself - mostly stemming from feeling like a failure, as an ADDer.  Today, several years after graduation and medication free, is true to himself.  Our lives are not perfect, wouldn't want it to be.  But, he has no scars, emotional or otherwise, from being in a Program.  I do agree with Tatiana.  I'm sorry for those that it didn't work for, and they are few, thank goodness.  



I will say that I've met hundreds of families, and don't know of a single one that is worse off, suicidal, etc., than before they chose to be a part of this program.  Not even close.



It's not about what's right or wrong, it's about what works or what doesn't - to coin a seminar phrase..hehehehe"


You are pretty much a prime example of why you program parents scare the crap out of me.

One: Right and wrong matter.

Two: Major depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and many of the "lesser" mental illnesses have a large genetic component and are biochemical in nature (even when part of the biochemical result is triggered by life trauma).

Giving people with a genetic disorder medication to place them on an equal footing with those who do not have that genetic disorder is not "artificial" happiness, there is *no* moral bonus for trying to fix genetic symptoms with "mind over matter" type strategies as opposed to medication.

It is of no more moral worth or lack of worth to take antidepressants and/or mood stabilizers if you're from a manic depressive family, or antipsychotics if you're from a schizophrenic family, than it is to take insulin and/or blood pressure medicine if you're from a family with a predisposition to diabetes and heart disease.

My problem with parents like you is that I fear that in your zeal to avoid medication for kids that may well *need* psychotropic medication you can quite easily cross the line into child neglect.

I understand your kid has ADD and that that is *not* one of the Major Mental Illnesses (MMI).

However, for parents who have children who *do* have Major Depressive Disorder, Bipolar Disorder, Schizophrenia, or Borderline Personality Disorder (which I believe should be reclassified as a major mental illness), I believe that parents who know or should know that the kid has a MMI who don't take the kid, regularly, to a mainstream licensed psychiatrist and keep the kid on the psychiatric medications prescribed by that psychiatrist should be prosecuted for criminal child neglect, lose custody, and Go To Jail.

The sole exception would be if the *child* prefers not to take the medication *and* the parent prefers to allow that *and* the child is not a danger to self or others.

People like you who are pathologically opposed to medication scare me as much as the Christian Scientists who are pathologically opposed to vaccines and blood transfusions.

Parents ought to be allowed to go to hell in your own way.  Refuse medical care and be loony as a toon or in a padded cell or die if that's what flips your lid.

Parents should *not* have the right to refuse absolutely critical medical care for their children---like non-experimental vaccines, life saving blood transfusions, antibiotics, or psychotropic medications for a child's major mental illness.

"Artificial happiness" indeed.  Over a genetic disease.  Moron.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2004, 08:06:00 PM »
Moron?  No where in that posting was any reference to bi=polar, etc.  I'm one that agrees there is a place for medication, and that is only one of them. Keeping a person alive due to diabetes or high blood pressure are others.  I am not anti medication.  I am against treating symptoms that don't need medication. There is no place for medication for treating AD/HD, depression and some other things that behavior modification can treat. Behavior modification for BPD is a good thing, along with their medication and regular doc checks. My opinion and it seems, the opinion of the poster.  

You read WAY too much into what was written, things that weren't even said between the lines.

Take a deep breath and read it again.  Depressed and/or angry was all that was mentioned, other than ADD, which hurts way more than it helps.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2004, 08:09:00 PM »
P.S. - it was also not stated there is no right or wrong.  Read that again, too, please.  It says it's not ABOUT right or wrong.  It's also not about me and you, it's about what works or doesn't work.
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Offline spots

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« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2004, 10:29:00 PM »
Whoa!!!  Stop the world; I want to get off.

You're talking about bi-polar, schizophrenia, borderline mental illness...

The VAST HUGE MAJOR number of kids in WWASPS are just gowing up!!!  Where did this topic veer off into the relatively rare realm of mental illness amongst teens?  

Yeah, sick kids need medicine.  Yeah, it takes a "real" counselor/doctor/professional to diagnose mental illness.  I think we slipped from the category of the general teen population of the United States to the tiny miniscule part of that population that can be helped by medical professionals.  Of the 2000+ kids in WWASPS facilities, how many are clinically ill?  The same percentage as in the general population???  10%???  1%???  Less than 1%???  Probably.  But WWASPS TAKES ANYBODY WITH MONEY.

As for our lovely Tatiana who spouts Cross Creek rhetoric, can her life problems really be blamed on juvenile molestation?  Is sexual molestation a boyfriend of her mom when she was 8 who asked to touch private parts?  Gimme a break!!!  I'm 60 years old, and I remember times when things happened (with Dirty Old Men and several Not-So-Old Men who were simply trying for a quickie).  Shit happens.  I'm sure there are boys in WWASPS who experienced the same things with Dirty Old Men.  I'm sure there are boys and girls in any high school in America who have experienced the same things.  Dealing with folks who don't have your best interests at heart is part of the learning experience of growing up.  Any teen would be well-served to understand how to thwart unwelcome advances.  That's part of growing up, and a good parent will instruct and encourage individual forceful responses to unwelcome advances.  

If a kid is being a real pain, don't blame "molestation".  Yes, some kids live in hell with frequent "visits" from uncles, etc.  But most kids travel swiftly through this phase, and learn how to deal with it.  Tatiana's problems don't all focus on past-life experiences.  Maybe she was just experimenting to see how far she could push her parents...obviously too far.  If a minimum-wage staffer from WWASPS, if a fellow 16yo "inmate" from WWASPS, if a cultish BBS parent points to her "molestation" as the root cause of all that separates her from her family, she is ill-served.  Tatiana chooses to return to the cult, to work "part-time" hassling young people who have no recourse against her due to their condition of servitude in a WWASPS facility.  Is this healthy?  You  must be joking!!!

Tatiana is either your worst nightmare, or a young woman set on a course of personal sorrow, who cannot deal with real life as it presents itself. Can she ever join the real world and make valid judgements about what is worth worrying about and what needs to be blown off?  My hope is that she becomes a useful member of society in a normal world.  My unhappy conviction is that she will more probably become a poor parent (by example) or a guard in a minimum security prison somewhere in the rural United States.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2004, 10:32:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-03-27 17:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Moron?  No where in that posting was any reference to bi=polar, etc.  I'm one that agrees there is a place for medication, and that is only one of them. Keeping a person alive due to diabetes or high blood pressure are others.  I am not anti medication.  I am against treating symptoms that don't need medication. There is no place for medication for treating AD/HD, depression and some other things that behavior modification can treat. Behavior modification for BPD is a good thing, along with their medication and regular doc checks. My opinion and it seems, the opinion of the poster.  



You read WAY too much into what was written, things that weren't even said between the lines.



Take a deep breath and read it again.  Depressed and/or angry was all that was mentioned, other than ADD, which hurts way more than it helps.  "


Major depression also runs in bipolar families.  There's plenty of reason to believe that it does have a genetic, biochemical component.

Clinically, the two most effective treaments for people with more than one episode of clinical depression are an ongoing low maintenance dose of an antidepressant, or Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.

CBT is *NOT* the same thing as "behavior modification."

Additionally, not all depressives respond well to CBT, not all depressives respond well to a particular antidepressant.  You have to do what works for that patient.

Major Depression (Recurring episodes of clinical depression) is a major mental illness, and attempting to treat it with Behavior Modification is irresponsible.

Yeah, I presumed that if you were against medication for *one* serious major mental illness you were likely against medication for all of them.  Apparently that was an unwarranted assumption, but since refusing medication for a major mental illness is not exactly a rational thing.....

One of the problems with major depression is that if you don't do rigorous clinical studies of treatment options, you can end up with all sorts of quackery (like BM) looking as though it works when it doesn't.  The reason is that individual episodes of clinical depression tend to lift on their own in about six months----it's just that if the patient has major depressive disorder and isn't just reacting to a one-time life stress like   a loved one dying, the depression *COMES BACK*.

And depression is a killer.  And it destroys lives.

Give a patient with clinical depression Behavior Modification as a treatment?  You might as well give him a tablespoon of Lydia Pinkham's patent medicine twice a day for six months, or a sugar pill.  Over a statistical sample of patients, you'll get the same results.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2004, 02:00:00 AM »
Good one Spots.  Just sweep the girls problems under the rug and pretend that it's okay if a dirty old man gets his jolly's at a helpless child's expense.  You have NO idea, apparently, what rape and molestation can do to a person.  Simple is not even close to being a part of the resulting emotional damage.

It may have been YOUR choice to just let this happen to you, but its's NOT okay.  It may be okay with you to think shit happens.  Not in the eyes of a young child.  Yes, Spots, there is a right and wrong, and this is wrong.  WHy do you think there are laws against this?  Even if the molester is put in prison, there are many victims, including the ones that love them and don't know how to help them. More often than not, those sick fucks are never brought to justice because they are relatives.  Too many people think that the relative ( mom's boyfriend) had a temporary lapse of control.  Bullshit.  Yep, just sweep it under the rug so you don't have to see it or ever deal with it THank the powers that be there are programs, and especially Cross Creek, that are here to help and support the victims once the rug is lifted.  

You are a mean person with no compassion.  Your true colors are here for all the world to see.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2004, 03:20:00 AM »
I agree with Anon, Spots is full of piss and vinegar. Her lack of empathy for a molestation victim only underscores what a cold-hearted person this "grandma" apparently is.  Am glad her grandchild is not in a program (don't wish that on anybody) but sheesh, this is not a person I would want to spend even 5 minutes with in the same room b/c this lady has some serious control issues.

Chill out Spots, attacking a kid is pathetic.

 :smokin:
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Offline spots

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« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2004, 10:08:00 AM »
My point is, what is considered molestation?  There are many people whose lives are forever fixated on a molestation incident.  Obviously the two previous Anon posters automatically think of this as pervasive, continual, horrible rape.  In fact, the current definition of molestation is now so broad that almost anyone can dredge up some history of "being molested".

The owner of Majestic Ranch (can't remember his name right now) is no longer able to be alone with any child, although he is still able to practice kidnapping, abuse, and imprisonment in the State of Utah.  The punishable incident?  He grabbed a girl's nipple and twisted.  Now I wouldn't call this sexual molestation (although it worked for the DA).  I would call this assault.  The single act showed a mean evil man who acted out inappropriately by hurting someone.  His character is probably such that he would try other sexual ventures against people under his power, but I consider him a dangerous all-around person, not a sexual predator.  

We have no idea what Tatiana went through but nowhere in her statement does she even intimate that she suffered months or years of continual sexual abuse.  Yet someone (if from WWASPS, more typically a housewife/staffer or even an episode on Dr. Phil) has pinpointed molestation as the reason/excuse for her problems. The Anons obviously jumped on this "explanation".  It may be valid, but then again, victims of molestation are currently defined so broadly that she may have been accosted by a 9yo classmate who was repeating the gestures and words he saw while watching his brother's favorite MTV show the week before.  

I am not heartless to victims of molestation, and I do not assume that persons can push incidents of true abuse into the back of their minds and move on.  But the fashionable diagnosis catching all the blame for "acting out" of teens is that they are victims of molestation. Just as the misdiagnosing of bi-polar as Oppositional Defiance Disorder (ODD) sweeps a true problem under the rug, putting all the blame on abberant behavior to a childhood incident that may well have not been a True Incident is to overlook the true factors in behavior that drives parents nuts enough to ship kids off to strangers for "treatment".
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2004, 10:36:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-03-27 19:32:00, Anonymous wrote:

Give a patient with clinical depression Behavior Modification as a treatment? You might as well give him a tablespoon of Lydia Pinkham's patent medicine twice a day for six months, or a sugar pill. Over a statistical sample of patients, you'll get the same results.


A lot of people seem to think that their minor mental illnesses were made worse by BM "therapy". At least Lydia Pinkham's little pills were fairly benign.

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2004, 05:42:00 PM »
For you Spots.  Would it really matter what "kind" of molestation anyone has experienced?  A young child having had this happen to them unwillingly, whatever it may be, is a victim, no matter what HOW you think they SHOULD react.  Does it matter if someone touched them in an inappropriate way or had penetration?  NO, HELL NO, in fact! Either way, it wasn't their choice to agree to being invaded.  


What does matter is how the victim deals with it, or not.  What makes it even harder for them to deal with what has happened (or is still happening) to them is that those close to them may not believe them, or they are afraid of what will happen if they say anything.  The sick fucks tell the young child if they say anything there will be horrible consequences.  As they get older, they act out in other ways, maybe as a cry for help for the deeper issues they have never been allowed to deal with.  Some victims of sexual abuse are sexually active. The reasons are numerous.  Drugs help to give them a sense of happiness, but when they drugs are not there, the pain still is.  When a teen cuts, it may be the only pain they CAN control.
 http://groups.msn.com/WhispersofAbuseSa ... abuse.msnw

And I do KNOW that being molested IS a continual rape, no matter if the actual act has long stopped.  What I get from this girl's posting is that she didn't deal with it and may have never dealt with it on the level she did had her parents not intervened in the surface reasons (drugs, anger, cutting) why she was wanting to die.

I have not changed my opinion of you, no matter how often you justify what you originally stated here.  And no matter how often you take the opportunity to defame emotional growth schools in general.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »