AA Abundant Life Academy

[Antigen]

On 2004-04-11 12:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Neither you, nor I, nor any of the others who have so freely judge this mom has walked in her shoes. As such, none, except God in heaven, is able to competently judge her motives and her actions.

Praise God for the just God He is.

Have a blessed day.

You're mistaken. 20 years ago, I was a kid on the receiving end of this kind of "help". Now, I have a 19yo daughter who only last summer returned home to us, having moved in w/ her boyfriend when she had been 16. There's a limit to what a parent can ethically do to a child in order to try and save them the grief of their own choices. We did everything we felt we could do w/o doing more harm than good.

I don't think Program proponants have any real idea what kind of harm they're potentially doing to these kids in the name of salvation. I do. I've lived it. Just getting kidnapped out of bed in the middle of the night, knowing your parents are paying for it, can be a profound betrayal. Never mind what follows such an event for the next year or two or three.

The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart.
Anonymity Anonymous

[Cayo Hueso]

Once again, Ginger eloquently states what we're trying to say.  If someone is bound and determined to do something you can't really stop[/b] them. You can teach them to the best of your ability, but at some point they have to learn on their own.  If you take that opportunity away, you stunt their growth plain and simple.  Some take years to recover, some never do.

The graduate with a Science degree asks, "Why does it work?"
The graduate with an Engineering degree asks, "How does it work?"
The graduate with an Accounting degree asks, "How much will it cost?"
The graduate with a Liberal Arts degree asks, "Do you want fries with that?"
--Anonymous

[Antigen]

On 2004-04-11 16:30:00, Anonymous wrote:

Good God, what IS this world coming to when selling Jesus out is considered "responsible parenting"? Anon, I think YOU are the one who should be praying for mercy. Jesus is not your employer.

I don't think this sort of thing is broadly considered responsible parenting. I think it's only a very tiny minority of parents who are involved in this sort of thing. They tend to believe they're the vast majority because they shut themselves off from the rest of society; such society being "evil" and "of 'the enemy'". These are the folks who read The Wormwood Letters and didn't get that Lewis was joking.

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trust either of them
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679737898/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> P.J. O'Rourke

[Anonymous]

The difference being, is these kids have the opportunity to repent, be forgiven, and make good choices.

Anon, what if there choice is not to repent?    Then what do you do?  What if, given they have free will as you say they do, what if they chose not to believe in God.  


What is your definition of a good choice?  I mean, how will you ever consider their choices to be good, if their first choice is not to believe in God.

[Anonymous]

Anon, what if there choice is not to repent?    Then what do you do?  What if, given they have free will as you say they do, what if they chose not to believe in God.  

So your answer is to FORCE them to change??

What is your definition of a good choice?  I mean, how will you ever consider their choices to be good, if their first choice is not to believe in God."

And there it is......you can't make good choices unless you believe in God?!?!?!?!

[Cayo Hueso]

oops, that was me :em:

The lust for power, for dominating others, inflames the heart more than any other passion
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140440607/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> Tacitus

[Anonymous]

On 2004-04-11 15:40:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Stoning kids to death because God told you to is not obedience.  It is a delusional disorder.  Scary isn't it?



 :scared:



"

Yes, and it has nothing to do with the situation.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-04-11 17:10:00, cayohueso wrote:

"

 At least now I know what NOT to do with my kids.

What a truly blessed nation we live in that we can have the freedom to make choices about how and where to raise our children.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-04-11 12:21:00, Paige wrote:

"

On 2004-04-11 12:09:00, Anonymous wrote:


"

On 2004-04-11 09:33:00, Anonymous wrote:<




The kids who are there have had opportunity after opportunity to make appropriate choices.  Just as Lucifer made a bad choice, so have these kids.  The difference being, is these kids have the opportunity to repent, be forgiven, and make good choices.

Who decides that the choice was wrong. The Parents? Maybe the parents were the reason for the bad choices the child made to begin with. Then the child suffers?"

Why yes Paige!  You are correct!  It is up to the parents to decide what will and will not be tolerated in their families!  Conratulations on finally figuring that out!  It is not for you, me, or anyone else to decide what is and is not right for someone else's family.

So, what you are saying is that the parents forced the child to make a bad choice?  Please.  Regardless of what the parents have or have not done, the children are responsible for their actions.  

When you and I each stand before God on judgement day, do you honestly think He will accept, "Sorry God, I did it because of my parents."

No!  We are all accountable for our own actions and our own choices. God will not accept lame justifications from us for our the bad choices we make.  

Our children need to learn this as well.

As far as the children suffering, unfortunately the Bible does tell us that the sins of the fathers are passed down.  So to answer your question, yes.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-04-11 12:46:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2004-04-11 12:04:00, Anonymous wrote:


"

On 2004-04-11 09:07:00, Anonymous wrote:<

Name calling is for those who have nothing intelligent to say."

I find this perplexing that the only thing this person picked up on was the name calling? Why can't the brother talk to his sister? Is this possibly an infringement on his rights as a sibling?"

We have only heard the rantings of an individual who is trying to interfere with the parental authority over the girl.  We have not heard from the brother to even know if it is really such a big deal to him anyway.

A review of the Constitution does not list sibling rights.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-04-12 07:19:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2004-04-11 15:40:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Stoning kids to death because God told you to is not obedience.  It is a delusional disorder.  Scary isn't it?





 :scared:





"

Yes, and it has nothing to do with the situation."

Point being the lady was delusional, but at the time she stoned her little boys to death, she "believed" she was carrying out God's will.  Care to explain how someone's *faith* could be a death sentence for 2 innocent children?

[Anonymous]

Why yes Paige! You are correct! It is up to the parents to decide what will and will not be tolerated in their families!

Do we have another "smart ass" claiming to be a Christian acting like a hypocrite?

I think this Anon that keeps battling hard for Craig Rogers and his program is the one and only Mrs. Craig Rogers.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-03-23 21:25:00, Deborah wrote:

"***Deborah - you are so quick to throw stones***




The teen gets shipped out because it's mom and dad who pay the program fees. They carry on with their merry life, usually more merry after the teen is gone, while the kid is incarcerated and treated like a prisoner.





"

You obviously are not a parent.  No parent would be merry finding themselves in this situation.  As far as how the kids are treated, unless you personally have been there, there is no basis for your comments.  They are merely your opinion, and deffinately not facts.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-03-25 08:32:00, CraigRogers wrote:

"Dear Debra,



The answers to your concerns are in my original statement. God gave us two ears (in this case two eyes) and one mouth (in this case a keyboard).  After reading your statements of judgment against me and Abundant Life Academy, I propose that you use your ears twice as much as you use your mouth.  It might help your understanding.



From your correspondences on this forum IT SEEMS like you have been hurt deelpy and that your wounds have created a nasty pit of bitterness in your heart.  It also SEEMS that you feel the need to spew out your bitterness on anyone you fell deserves it.  However, as I said... IT SEEMS...  I dont know you, and it would be very unfair of me to make such radical statement and judgments against you without knowing the whole picture about you.  So, based on my extremely limited knowledge and experience of you it would be ridiculous for me to make assumptions about you.  It would also be unfair. Perhaps you can learn something from this.



It is real funny that some people so easily make judgments against me and these very same people  have absolutely no ability to do what I do. In otherwords, they offer no solution but feel empowered to judge and criticize the efforts of people who are doing something about the problem.  Stop criticizing others and get out there and be a part of the solution!



Kids in the US are in trouble, and Debra you are not offering a solution.  You just have complaints and judgments against those who are willing to give their all.  I would love to give you my job for just one day.  Come and work with me and see what I go through.



I was one of these "troubled teens".  I put my parents through hell and back.  In my case, my problems were not caused by my parents.  It was my choices that caused my troubles.  My parents did everything they could to help me, but ultimately I rejected everything until the consequences of my choices totally devasted me.  For years I hated my parents for the things they did (in reality I hated myself for what I was doing to them but it was easier to blame them for my troubles).  However, now... I am extremely grateful for all that they did.  They are truly great people.   I hope to be half the parent they were.



Also, I am not making money at this job (give me a break!).  To me this is a calling.  If I make any money I give it back to parents that cant afford help.  As a matter of fact, I paid money last year to work for Abundant Life Academy.  If you could spend just one day in my shoes I think you would get a whole different picture.



To help you understand the statements in my original statement.... Josue and Patricia were not hired to provide anything but the housing and food services.  Meaning, they were the landlords and managers of the property.  They were also supposed to provide for the food services (meals).  I brought in my own professional staff to care for the students (teachers, mentors, supervisors, etc).  



I am sorry that you feel compelled to be judge and jury and have no desire to know the facts.  You are welcomed to give me a call, and, any solutions you might have to help us to empower our students would be greatly appreciated.  We are always striving to get better.



As a matter of fact, we are erecting a home for some homeless people.  We sure could use some labor help.  Why dont you come down and help us help others.  Spending your time being a part of the solution is much better then criticizing those who are a part of the solution.



God bless,



Craig Rogers

435-644-8297



"

God bless you Craig.  You and ALA are doing a great thing.  Jesus was critisized for what He was doing to help others.  Count it all joy when you are persecuted for doing what is right.  The more He did to help others, the more He was persecuted, so I guess that means you are in excellent company!   :smile:

[Anonymous]

On 2004-03-25 16:21:00, Deborah wrote:

"


You're not making money? You mean, profit? Who pays your living expenses- housing, food, medical, transportation? Independently wealthy? Ward of Christian Charity?



You perceive what you're doing as a "solution"- perhaps the only one, I don't- it's an option currently available to troubled parents. Therefore, I'd have to decline the invitation to work for your ministry. My 'calling' is in a different direction.



Kids in the US "are in trouble"?

"

There is a difference between making money and being a money maker.  The work that ALA does is not about making money.  It is about helping wayward teens.  

Anyone who has even a 6th grade education will have no problem seeing stories in the news that bring heartache to this nation - kids killing other kids at school and whatnot.

Yes, the kids in the US are in serious trouble.  Fortunately, there are places like ALA to help those parents who are smart enough to see the need for help, and then take action and get the help.  Ignoring your wayward teen doesn't help them get better.