AA Abundant Life Academy

[CraigRogers]

Dear Truth or Consequences,

I am out of here.  You people are way too wierd for me.  All I can say is... "there is more to life then Fornit's forum" I have much more important things to do and I am ashamed of myself for getting involved.

To waste one more minute conversing with you would be a big waste of time.  I feel like an eagle who is spending time in the chicken coop with a bunch of turkeys.  I'm flying this coop.

Have fun being wierd... if cutting up people on web forums floats your cookie then more power to ya!

God bless,

Craig

[Anonymous]

Anon Writes:

What IS this, the Craig and Karen Mutual Adoration Society?  

Come now, answer the question! Does ALA accept kids taken to them by force, possibly drugged by a parent to make them less resistant when the kidnappers ambush them at 3 am in the morning? Did Karen have her own child transported to Costa Rica and later, St. George?

Truth or Consequences.

----------------------------------------

Adios Senor Rogers ... didn't really expect you to answer the question, anyway.  Good luck saving more kids like Nathan Burnett, who you apparently believe are "out of control and totally controlled and obsessed with the ways of the world". (Source: "About Us" on ALA website).  

Personally, I think it's "abundantly" clear that you and Karen are the ones obsessed. Or should I say, possessed?  How else do you explain this sinister plot to spread the gospel through forced indoctrination?  And in St. George, Utah, no less?

Truth or Consequences.
 :smokin:

[Anonymous]

Eagle, my ass.  Try NOT-SO-SLY-FOX in the chicken coop!

:rofl:

[Anonymous]

Let me clarify, I do not believe God sanctions the practice of parents forcing their childern into any school, camp or program as a means of *controlling* their attitude and behavior. Hiring strangers to forcibly transport a child anywhere just because it is *legal* does not make it *right*.  Parents always have the option of taking their child, themselves.  If more programs would join in refusing children brought to them by transporters, parents would have to work harder to persuade their children they "need help" and to go willingly into a residential treatment facility or other kind of rehab program.  Using escorts to force kids into a faith-based program is especially repugnant.  What must Jesus be thinking?  "Forgive them, Father, they know not what they are doing"?  Excuse me, that's why Jesus died on the cross.
Think about it ...

Truth or Consequences

[Antigen]

On 2004-03-25 07:14:00, Anonymous wrote:

I wish my memory were sharper; so I could give you a precise account of events and explain why the comments aren't as contradictory as they seem; but with out writing things down, I can't keep details in mind - they just evaporate into the myst of my once upon a time smoke addled brain.

Well fiddle dee dee. Perhaps you'll think about it tomorrow.

Mean time, can you answer one question for me? Has God been telling you that I should take out a second mortgage on my house so that you and Craig can do His work on my kid or not? I mean, she wears black and goth styles, cusses sometimes, spends a lot of time playing at online roleplaying games where she uses magical powers and spells to combat enemies. Mind you, I don't have a problem with any of that. But supposed I did and I came to you asking for help. Would God then ask you folks to pass along the above message tome?

Q. I simply ask, why is PUNISHMENT the solution with regards to the narrow group of behaviors which encompass illegal drug use....?

A.Pharmaceutical Business, both legal and illegal, run by the same people either way, money coming to the middle from both ends.  Bush.
http://www.luxefaire.com/' target='_new'>Bill Gallagher

[Antigen]

On 2004-03-26 19:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

Jesus is the only answer :eek:

Sorry. Could you please rephrase the question?

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you recognize a mistake when you make it again.
-- F. P. Jones

[Anonymous]

Ginger - the answer is No. I explained this already. I guess you missed it. I don't think there is anything anywhere that remotely indicates any such thing - its all in your suspicious mind.I understand why your so suspicious. But in this case, your wrong.
ALA is a Christian program for Christian kids. No one is forcing anything on these kids. Furthermore,
in my experience, ALA is the only program that will actually cut tuition so a kid can come if they think they can help and the family can't afford it; and actually provides entertainment and activities without any additional charge.  Nate was taken on several long distance trips and many shorter ones, for things such as snow boarding, horse back riding, hiking the canyons, movies and concerts and I don?t know what all; and I was never asked for one extra penny to cover the cost.
He was very sick once and had to visit the hospital; I was never asked for a so much as a dime as a result.
The tuition that is paid actually covers the kids expenses.
My own experience has taught me this is not always the case; and I suspect it is rare.
It takes money to run a program, but this program is not about money.

I know you are down on programs in general; and not happy with what Craig has had to say; but do consider this:
How many other Executive Directors would bother with a forum like Fornits at all?

And admit who they are, I mean.

So you don't like the man or his message; you should still give credit where credit is due.

[Anonymous]

All I want to know from you, Karen B/Z is why you think it's okay for parents to pay for the abduction of their own child by complete strangers for the explicit purpose of forcing that child into a school or program?  Don't give me that tired old song-and-dance about how no kid wants to go to a program because the same can be said for *adults* suffering from alcohol or drug abuse.  You don't see these thugs barging into an 18 year old boy or girl's bedroom threatening to use handcuffs if they don't "come quietly" now do ya?  Of course not.  That would be considered kidnapping which is a FEDERAL OFFENSE.  It's only teens who can not (or will not) comply with their parent's expectations and demands who have to worry about whether it is safe to sleep in their own beds at night without barracading the door.

Truth or Consequences

[Friend of the parents]

Craig i forgive you, and just understand that GOD will judge those who do evil in his name.

Josue A.

The End......

 ::bandit::

[Antigen]

On 2004-03-27 10:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

ALA is a Christian program for Christian kids. No one is forcing anything on these kids.

Then, naturally, you would have nothing to do w/ "escort" services because all of your students are there voluntarily, right?

If that's not correct, then please explain how you can take and keep kids against their will and still believe you're not forcing anything on them.

Bureaucracy defends the status quo long past the time when the quo has lost its status
--Laurence J. Peter

[Anonymous]

Then, naturally, you would have nothing to do w/ "escort" services because all of your students are there voluntarily, right?


Its not up to me Ginger, weather or not they accept escorted kids.
You and Devlen and everyone else, know I don't hold exactly the same point of view as you guys on the subject of escorts. We've debated this in the past. I do see your point; but I have not yet reached the point where I can say I don't think it is ever the correct choice.
I know ALA has not in the past accepted escorted kids. When I sent Nate that was the policy. I think maybe now, under some circumstances, they will; but I know for a fact this is not usually the case. I talk to many of the parents and they have all traveled with their kids.
I am troubled by some of the accounts of escorting I've herd and its enough to make anyone want to say it ought to never occur.
It isn't always like that tho; and in my opinion, it can serve the kid's best interest if done responsibly; by good people under the right circumstances. You needn?t tell me how wrong I am; I know how you feel.
I did have Nathan escorted to Dundee; as you all well known. The escort was a decent guy and treated Nate kindly and Nathan has had no complaints - even rather enjoyed the trip; which he likely wouldn't have, had it been me and him. My only complaint is the guy didn't tell me what he knew about wwasp; and I think he should have.
With the transfer, as I have told you guys, I met him in Miami and flew out to Utah with him.
But as to anything (Christianity) being forced on the kids - No, I don't think thats the case at all, even if they do happen to arrive with an escort. Its not like their running a mini inquisition; ALA is not heavy handed and dogmatic the way some are.  
I do like these people. Very much. I am very grateful to them and I think they're doing important work.
You don't.
OK.
We disagree on this, as we do many things.
We still have our areas of agreement and we can still work together there, I hope; and were we disagree, I hope it can remain a civil disagreement.

[Anonymous]

Karen, why in the world would you advocate any parent not transport their own child to their program-of-choice given what happened to you?  This does not make sense and leads me to conclude that you have a propensity to talk out of both sides of your mouth.  

Think about it ... you have posted on this forum and others that you made a regretable mistake sending your child to a program "sight unseen".  Now you have taken it a step further by saying you feel the person you hired to escort/transport your child was not honest with you.  

For pete's sake lady, you are either dumb as a stone or incredibly gullible.  Please, stop trying to save kids and families from the wicked ways of the world.  You are not God and neither is Craig.  

You are salesmen pitching a service (escorts) to parents who are more than capable of transporting their own kids and should be encouraged not discouraged from doing so.

Frankly, I have decided that if you accept even one kid under transport, you have failed in your mission and really should consider another way to satisfy your "calling" in life.  This is just the height of hypocrisy and I see no reason to pretend otherwise, especially since these poor kids are the ones paying the price.

 :smokin:

[Anonymous]

I dunno.  I have been categorically against escorts.

And I am now, the way they're done.

However, *theoretically* if a state regulated escorts tightly enough that they required the parents and service to get a notarized waiver signed by the kid during daylight hours agreeing to be transported to X school in Y place with a general informed consent document about the specifics of that school, then I could see letting parents hire an escort to get their kid to school safely.

I'd want the law to be pretty explicit about what kind of things had to be in the informed consent document.

I still don't think they're a good idea, but if the parents have health problems or something, you could have an actual *good* school where the kid would need help getting there.

But as it is now?  No way in hell.

[Anonymous]

We're talking about forcing kids into highly restrictive, custodial schools and programs against their will, not "escorting" them to some preppy boarding school where the only thing the kid need fear is whether he/she will have a room with a private bathroom.

Again, the escort business is a racket. Sure, there are some kind, decent, good-hearted folks who think of themselves as above the moonlighting cops, probation officers, and ex-prison guards.
But this is a competitive industry driven soley by demand.  

So let's be real.  

Parents who rely on the services of an escort service aren't doing this because they are physically impaired.  They are doing it because they have been encouraged (read sold) on the idea either by the program itself, and ed con, independent referral agent, or heaven forbid, another parent.  Don't believe me?
Read the link to the article written by the transport company promoting their services.  Pretty story, isn't it?

Wise up parents, if your kid has to go to a program, take them yourselves.  It's best for the child and will save you a chunk of change which is sure to come in handy down the road ...

 :smokin:

[Anonymous]

That was kind of my point.

When Karen or somebody talks about "Oh, maybe there could be a situation when using an escort is good"---well, that *might* be true someday if the rules are reformed so that the only escorts left in business are helping a willing kid get to prep school.

But as things are *now*, if someone has enough demand to be in business as an escort, their job is kidnapping kids.  It's legal, but the essence of it is kidnapping kids and virtually all of what the current escorts do should be made illegal.

My point is that, yeah, she's right that such a "good" use could exist--in theory--but the current state of the laws and the business, no way in hell is a parent's use of an escort service the harmless hypothetical I was able to come up with.

I guess it was kind of an obscure point.