Author Topic: Breaking News Story on Teen Advocates USA  (Read 56467 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Breaking News Story on Teen Advocates USA
« Reply #165 on: May 04, 2004, 04:26:00 PM »
From what source do you gather that 'it appears that behavior modification was being used'? From what source do you draw your comparison of Anson Arnett to Ted Bundy? Did you know Anson? I'm curious as to why you would compare someone whom you did not know to a well-known serial killer? Am I missing something?
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Offline cherish wisdom

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« Reply #166 on: May 04, 2004, 10:31:00 PM »
I was not comparing Ted Bundy to Mr. Arnet.  I was just making a point that sometimes we don't really know anyone because we can't read minds.  
I gathered that Maximum Life Skills Academy was a behavior modification program from the website. It was subtle, but those of us who have been fooled before know determine if the facility uses BM.  Read on....

This is from the MLSA website:
The mission of Maximum Life Skills Academy is to teach every young man the importance of their unique individuality. In addition to a top notch academic environment, we teach our students a different, yet positive way of looking at themselves. Yes, there are behavioral problems that will need to be replaced by productive habits.
This system of positive reinforcement is used to encourage good habits and drown out the negative ones. This techniquie of helping your son to find his own individual worth is a unique aspect of Maximum Life Skills Academy that separates us from all other programs

Here they point out that they use a "system of positive reinforcement..used to encourage good habits and drown out the negative ones..this is a unique aspect of MLSA that separates us from all other programs."

The use of the word "drown" is violent - like kill, murder, snuff out.  It's obvious that this was a BMP (behavior modification program)  In addition the website points out that there is little contact with parents.  Reports are given to them by staff. The website looks much better than the actual program.  I'm not sure if Ah Quin was associated with the WWASP organization or not. If so, then he probably used the same techniques that are also used at the notoriously abusive Provo Canyon School (which I am very familiar with) The fact that the boys must stay 9 months or longer also indicates that they are doing more than just getting these kids sober - they are messing with their minds and values.
This can be damaging psychologically and emotionally.
When a human being is kept in a locked environment and denied basic human rights and freedoms - it is human nature - to want to escape. Anyone keeping them locked in may be seen as the enemy. Anson may have been a fine individual - He probably was not abusive to the boys and he probably was not using them sexually - he was just there - and these boys had the desire to escape as a result of being told that they had to stay longer in this locked environment.  To them - Anson may have been seen as the enemy.  Obviously they didn't have a good relationship with him.  Again, they may have been cold hearted, cold blooded killers.  Without more information about what was done behind those locked doors it is hard to know.  They may have been sexually, physically, psychologically and emotionally abused at this program.  They were locked in and had little contact with the outside world.  Perhaps their escape was justified - perhaps you would have done the same in their situation.
All I am trying to say is that we can't jump to conclusions before we know more.  We do know that the facility was flagrantly violating State law by having only one staff member for the night shift. Also that staff member was never cleared to make sure he wasn't a felon or child molester.  Not to say that he was - it was just that this program was obvioulsy not obeying the law.  So if they weren't obeying a simple law like having two staff members, then they may have been violating many other laws and codes.
What happened was a tragedy for everyone - Anson, The Ah Quins, the boys and all of the families involved.  Still we can't march these boys before a Utah firing squad before all of the facts are known. So far it seems as though there is a serious cover-up (which is common in Utah)  

Duct tape is like the force; it has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together.
--Jedi Knight school drop out.

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Offline Antigen

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Breaking News Story on Teen Advocates USA
« Reply #167 on: May 05, 2004, 11:13:00 AM »
I just added an improvement to the search function. You can now search on whole phrases in addition to "any term" and "all terms"

So you can search on ah quin to find out what has been posted in these forums already.

Now to do the pager for those incredibly large searches.

History gives us a kind of chart, and we dare not surrender even a small rushlight in the darkness. The hasty reformer who does not remember the past will find himself condemned to repeat it.
--John Buchan

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #168 on: May 05, 2004, 05:11:00 PM »
The firing squad was abolished in this year's legistlative session. Maybe they'll get a slap on the wrist and the walk free to continue living thier lives as though nothing happened.
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Offline cherish wisdom

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« Reply #169 on: May 05, 2004, 06:39:00 PM »
A slap on the wrist...not in Utah. of course the counselors responsible for the deaths of several children in their care got slaps on the wrist - or no charges at all - who knows? :???:

Necessity never made a good bargain
--Benjamin Franklin Apr. 1734

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #170 on: May 05, 2004, 06:42:00 PM »
i was actually wondering if anyone had heard what the sentencing might be for the boys?
unfortuntaley, i knew one of the boys, i am from delaware but i am going to remain anonymous. it was a great tragedy, and it saddens me greatly because when i was friends with him, he was one of the nicest peopel i knew. it was quite a shock..
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Offline cherish wisdom

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« Reply #171 on: May 05, 2004, 07:01:00 PM »
He's probably a good kid - who lost it.  You need to understand that there are many very abusive behavior modification programs in the state of Utah. These boys had been in this program for over 6 months and were looking forward to going home. There were only 6 boys in this residential program - with a capacity of 11.  Ironically the administrator told the parents that the boys were not ready to come home because they had cheated on a test. You need to realize that staff do provoke kids in these programs. They had recently been told that they were going to have to stay longer. Sometimes kids are in these programs until they turn 18.  This is a very profitable business.  Each child is worth $4000 to as much as $13,000 per month.  So it's no wonder that parents are told that their children are not ready to leave. Sometimes they are told that if they take them out it will be AMA (against medical advice) -
I know this happens because it happened to me and my child.  My child also tried to escape after being severely abused in the punitive Provo Canyon School.  She had never hit anyone in her life - she was very passive and non assertive with others.  Yet - when a person is in fear of their life or sanity they will do irrational things.  What happens to people in these abusive situations?  They go into a psychological state called "survival mode." In this state they will do and say anything to stay alive - even hit someone over the head with a baseball bat in an effort to escape.  
My guess is that the boys were being abused. There have been hundreds of reports of beatings, sexual assault, rape, molestation, forced druggings, denial of medical care, isolation and seclusion for long period of time and many other abuses.  There 196 programs in Utah and the authorities rarely do anything to crack down on abuses unless there is a death.  If any good can come of this tragedy, hopefully more will be done to regulate these programs to better protect both staff and student.  

All I ask is equal freedom.  When it is denied, as it always is, I take it anyhow.
--H.L. Mencken

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #172 on: May 05, 2004, 08:17:00 PM »
Dead kids don't influence lawmakers, but maybe dead counselors do, is that it?
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Offline cherish wisdom

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« Reply #173 on: May 05, 2004, 08:31:00 PM »
Dead kids don't influence lawmakers, but maybe dead counselors do, is that it?

In Utah this is a BREAD AND BUTTER industry.  From what I've read (and there is not much out there) the DA is seeking the DEATH PENALTY and charging them as adults. Now Aaron Bacon was litterally tortured, starved, denied life saving medical care, forced to eat cactus, lizards and scorpions in a youth wilderness program for nearly a month (until he died while being ridiculed) and most of those responsible got off with community service. One was sentenced to jail for one year.  Now the authorities want the DEATH PENALTY for these boys.  The locals also want to see them pay with their lives.  In fact several have expressed a desire to see the firing squad reinstated just for these boys - to see their bodies riddled with bullets.  
If these boys get a fair trial in hickville it will be a miracle.  There are far to  many people who are involved in this teen industry in some way or another.  

It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #174 on: May 05, 2004, 08:37:00 PM »
The parents of the 2 boys and the counselor should sue the state of Utah for not enforcing their own licensing standards and they should sue the program for being in violation of those licensing standards.  

THAT would move this whole issue into the national arena.

 :eek:
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Offline cherish wisdom

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« Reply #175 on: May 05, 2004, 08:48:00 PM »
Those parents need to be concerned about providing an excellent defence for their sons.  They are trapped in a time-warp right wing State with an ultra-conservative jury pool.  If those boys were abused in any way they need to bring it out into the open. If they were abused the charges will be minimized because the State of Utah does not want the masses to realize that Utah condones and allows teen programs to torture youth - this would be bad for business and the economy.  People may think twice before sending their offspring to a program in Utah.
I still don't know what their motives were, but the authorities sure put a lid on the other 4 boys who were witnesses to all of this.  If this goes to court there will be a media circus - the DA does not want that because all of Utah's dirty secrets will be plastered in every newspaper across the country.  Not good for business![ This Message was edited by: cherish wisdom on 2004-05-05 17:50 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #176 on: May 05, 2004, 09:02:00 PM »
True enough, but the best defense is a strong offense and if these boys parents sue the state of Utah, the house of cards will finally coming crashing down, whether they win or not.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #177 on: May 05, 2004, 11:21:00 PM »
As a matter of Law - suing the State of Utah would not work out for these boys. They have been charged with a capital crime.  They need to have a good defense for these crimes first - and if successful then they would have standing for a lawsuit against the state. Right now they don't have any standing to sue the state. The family of Anson could have standing though - since the licensing board had sited them for several violations.  They also have standing against the Ah Quins (especially) since this director was aware of the unsafe condition and did nothing to correct it. The children who are abused in these facilities also have standing because the authorities do nothing to protect them from abusive conditions.  What is needed is a huge class action lawsuit.  Bring together all of those who have reported abuse to the authorities - all of these reports have probably been filed but poorly investigated if at all.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #178 on: May 10, 2004, 02:31:00 PM »
It sounds like you must be related to these boys. One these boys did cheat, they admitted to cheating on some test. Two they chose to hit Anson with a bat! the owners did not give those a bat to murder Anson. Obvioulsy these boys were in a youth program for help becauseof there upbringing. Three they worked with Anson for over 6 months so was there trust there between the staff and students.  And if you read the States P&P its totaly misleading. Even if they had another staff on you know that staff would of been allowed to be asleep. So we would have 2 dead staff now! It ultimatly is those boys who knew for 2 weeks they were gonna stay longer which now they proved who they were. They were not ready for society.The owners knew that and their parents did too.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #179 on: May 10, 2004, 02:58:00 PM »
Seeing as how there was an hour and a half between the time the boys left and anyone even bothered to call the cops, how do you know either one of them even hit the guy?

Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
--Thomas Paine

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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