Author Topic: Breaking News Story on Teen Advocates USA  (Read 56031 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2004, 09:41:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-03-14 06:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

"This was a home for *trobuled* youth, was it not? Why only one counselor on duty that night?  It was a violation of the DHS rules and regulations, from what I've read in statements from DHS officials.  This is a horrific tragedy that has left one man dead and two teens possibly facing the death penalty.  The boys are entitled to a fair trial and in my opinion, their lawyers should strongly consider bringing a motion for a change of venue.  "


What is the population of Cedar City????
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2004, 10:34:00 PM »
Cedar City, with a population of 13,500, is the largest community in Iron County and is located at the mouth of Coal Creek in south-central Utah. Cedar City 's elevation is 5,800 feet above sea level, and it lies in a semi-arid part of the state with 10,000-foot mountains to the east and a vast desert area to the west.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2004, 11:31:00 PM »
According to the news article, it appears their license was apparently revoked by DHS for 3 violations:

(1) One counselor on duty, state law requires 2

(2) The group home failed to obtain background checks for Mr. Arnett and several other counselors at the home before "giving them direct access to children".

(3)Facility in violation of National Interstate Compact Laws, which required the facility to contact the state officials in Delaware before taking Simmons, originally from Wilmington, Del., into their care. The other teen is from Rockville, Md.
************

I am so pleased to see the Compact sited!!! Yes!!!  ::drummer::  ::cheers::
A precedent needs to set on the violation of this existing law. I've never seen them cite a program for this before. Wonder why now?

Based on Utah's past, if they cited 3 violations, you could safely bet there were actually many more. No mention of appeal. Guess they're weighing their options.

[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2004-03-15 20:32 ]
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2004, 01:35:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-03-15 19:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Cedar City, with a population of 13,500, is the largest community in Iron County and is located at the mouth of Coal Creek in south-central Utah. Cedar City 's elevation is 5,800 feet above sea level, and it lies in a semi-arid part of the state with 10,000-foot mountains to the east and a vast desert area to the west.

"


 :tup: Thanks Anon!
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Offline Kiwi

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« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2004, 04:01:00 AM »
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Wait a minute here. There were four other boys present. According to the director, all four were just shocked and horribly upset to see their beloved mentor getting roughed up. So they ... what, prayed for an hour and a half before deciding to call for help?

Quote
The article says the phone line was cut, the boys had to run quite a distance to the director's house but he wasn't home, so they ran to another counselor's home.

Quote
What is the population of Cedar City????

Not very big if they could only find two houses. :???: Where is this place?  In the middle of the dessert?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #50 on: March 16, 2004, 05:41:00 AM »
:wstupid:

The topic is about the tragedy of 3 lost lives... dont you get it?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2004, 05:55:00 AM »
Deborah:

These two were sent to this program because they were unruley at home.  Their parents were not able to control them themselves... due to the parents not disciplining them as children.  Where is the responsibility of the parents?  Did these parents fully investigate the program before they entrusted them to Maximum Life Skills Academy'?  What setting would they be living in?  the educational program?  the program itself?  what about the credentials of the persons working there?  were there credentials?  
Part of the responsibility belongs to the parents.  Why were they not actively involved in their progress?  Disinterested?  shipping them off to be 'fixed'?  pawning their responsibility on to another?  

Shame on them
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #52 on: March 16, 2004, 07:54:00 AM »
I'm not sure why you directed your comments to me, but yes, I believe that parents should do their homework if this is the option they are going to choose for their kids. Fact is, they don't. They trust that the state is monitoring these facilities. And as I and others have said over and over, parents can not know what is happening on a day-to-day basis. Neither parent knew their sons were there with one staff that night. I'm sure there are many other things they didn't know. If I were the parent, I'd be considering a suit against the program for neglecting the safety of the teens and staff. If they had been properly supervised, this tragedy might not have happened.

The blame for this attrocity can't be placed solely with the parents. It was reported that the deceased counselor was not happy with the protocol at the facility. He could've spoken up or quit. He could have refused to work alone that night. He could've reported the violations at the facility to licensing- IF he knew they were in violation. I wonder if he was ever given the regulations to read? Since the programs can't seem to comply, perhaps it's time for the state to ENSURE that all staff receive a copy of the regs. I know they require an orientation. If the staff chooses to work in violation of the regs, it's their choice, as are the consequences.

The owner could've abided by regs or have chosen to work alone with the boys that night himself, or to work with Arnett if short handed; which might have prevented the tragedy. He knew he was in violation and even expressed regret. I spect it was a financial decision since he wasn't at full capacity. He put Arnett's life in jeopardy. Arnett chose to work in violation of regs. These two adults made poor choices which resulted in a tragedy.

If I were the family of the deceased I'd be considering a suit against the owner for putting my family member's life at risk.

The real tragedy here is that two young men may be put to death because the families, schools, the program, and society in general failed to prove their real needs.

Cheating? These two obviously came from distressed homes and chances are good that they didn't have the attention for academics. How bout cooperative learning? What a concept. The only people who need to take standardized tests are heart surgeons, rocket scientists, and the like in order to prove competence before they tamper with other health/well being. If educators/programs would recognize the value in teaching cooperation from a place of genuine respect for the individual we'd have less distressed kids, taking legal/illegal drugs to be able to function in a dysfunctional system.

Think these boys were offered options along the way. Mentorships? Training? I imagine these square pegs were expected to fit in round holes. How many times does this tragedy have to repeat itself before the masses get it? Square pegs don't fit in round holes, and no amount of chiseling (mind fucking) and hammering (punishment) is going to change that. They have unique needs that should be respected and provided. Society is dependent on diversity. We need people of all vocations and specialties in order for society to function well. If someone is not an academic, then aid them in being the best mechanic, plumber, carpenter, cook, whatever, they can be.

Society failed these boys and they may loose their lives for the sins of others. Sounds like a famous biblical icon, doesn't it? Two thousand years and no change. They will never know the joy of feeling respected (loved) and finding their true passion in this lifetime.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2004, 09:06:00 AM »
Just a side note on cheating and cooperative learning, otherwise unrelated to the thread.

There is a difference between assigned group projects and cooperating on homework or projects versus cheating on tests.

"Cooperating" on tests may *rarely* result in the person who didn't know the answer remembering it from copying the answer of the person who did.  More usually, it results in the person who didn't know the answer *still* not knowing the answer and the teacher not knowing they don't know.

The bad part about that last is the student then doesn't get the help he/she needs to actually learn that material, which can be a big problem when later material builds on earlier material.

I tutored a 7th grade kid who was flunking math.  His problem was that while he was understanding the teacher's explanations of geometry and pre-algebra near-perfectly, he couldn't reliably work 4 addition/subtraction/multiplication/division operations and get 4 right answers.  Since the test problems involves at least four sequential operations, by the time he got to the end of the problem, he had made at least one mistake and had the wrong answer.

The problem with saying, "Oh, only doctors and engineers need to know all that" is that if you decide a particular kid doesn't need to know "all that" and don't ensure that he knows then you've foreclosed the possibility of that kid ever becoming a doctor or an engineer---usually when the kid doesn't know yet what he wants to be.

Social determinism by lack of educational basics is a bad, sad thing.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #54 on: March 16, 2004, 11:54:00 AM »
The trial should be moved.  Cedar City is a small, close knit community.  Also, the fact that the boys did not run to a nearby neighbors house to call 911 is troubling.  Need to hear from all the residents of the home but suspect that won't happen until the trial is well underway.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #55 on: March 16, 2004, 11:58:00 AM »
News reports did say that after the police investigation is over, DHS will continue their investigation into possible other violations.  Revocation of license is effective March 26, 2004. I believe I read somewhere the remaining youths have been relocated to another program, is this correct?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #56 on: March 16, 2004, 12:03:00 PM »
Deborah, won't it be interesting to learn how these parents came to choose this particular program?  Internet? Ed Consultant? Independent Program Referral Service? Word-of-Mouth-Referral, etc.  WE NEED TO KNOW!

Second, look at the cost of this program.  It is/was not cheap.

 :???:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #57 on: March 16, 2004, 12:36:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-03-10 23:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Posted: 2004-03-06 09:51:00  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Fornits Archives: Key Word: liahona



http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 9&start=10



Posted: 2003-08-31 18:59:00

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well here goes :

He has built or owns websites for that purpose(troubled teen referrals/schools). His website used to have an Ah Quin family member on it. A brother/son to people who run Liahona Academy. I also heard rumor that Steve helped finance a program started by Randall Hinton (formerly of Teen Help). They are all from Hurricane, UT. I have also heard that there is a lawsuit over the startup funds (Lemmon trying to sue Hinton).

Lemmon family very large in Hurricane/SO. Utah - some family members are real estate agents.



Another of his sites is : swlemmon.com calls himself a Business Consultant.



I would bet he refers to Liahona if any. I don't think WWASP would associate with him as he funded a person they basically told to go away (this would be Hinton). You probably already know this (I suspect Sue S. as the poster looking for info) as Hinton and Sue were/are pretty tight.



TheStudio.net actually had built a website for Casa by the Sea, but has been redone since.



No background in the industry known. He's a film/media buff trying to get in on the teen help industry craze of the internet these days.



He's associated with the Ah Quin people - so I'd watch out. They have a reputation for getting things done there way. One of the Ah Quin's (younger) worked doing concert promotions - thug like - also likes underage girls - pervert.



Now - in exchange for this information I would like to know your purpose. I was fair and open with this - can't you do the same? I have no beef with this guy, but you asked for info. Why are you asking questions about him? I suspect you've been thrown a name, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree. Do tell - I might be able to help you.



If you tell what you're up to - that might be worth some more information....



Internet has lot's of info - just have to know where to look..."


Hope the trial gets moved to another county or SLC.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2004, 12:39:00 PM »
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On 2004-03-16 09:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Deborah, won't it be interesting to learn how these parents came to choose this particular program?  Internet? Ed Consultant? Independent Program Referral Service? Word-of-Mouth-Referral, etc.  WE NEED TO KNOW!



Second, look at the cost of this program.  It is/was not cheap.



 :silly:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2004, 02:02:00 PM »
"Society failed these boys and they may loose their lives for the sins of others."

That statement is ridiculous.  The boys ARE responsible for their actions.  They did not have to murder the man.  Quit making blanket statements about what has happened given you were not there and you do not know everything about what has happened.  All you have to go on is what a news reporter has written.  Those are not necesarily the facts and even if it is in part factual it is not all of the facts.
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