Spots here is the question, plain and simple.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-03-09 13:27:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Are we talking about rampant abuse?



You can not look at this suit as though it is some kind of car accident in which plaintifs need to be compensated.



This case is and has been about abuse.  These plaintifs are claiming that abuse is the norm in these programs.   If what they have been saying is true and they agree to settle quietly, then how are they any different than those who they are calling abusers.  If they mean what all they have said, if there is any truth in what they have said, how can they accept money and then close their mouths to what they profess to be rampant, that of wide spread abuse? "

True enough, Anon.  Moreover, the pure irony in all this is disheartening.

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2004-03-09 10:46:00, Anonymous wrote:

"***I don't think it appropriate that President Bush would respond to a question asked directly of Clinton, such as why he lied in the White House, is quite the same as Clinton himself responding to a question asked of him. If I asked Clinton why he lied, I want his answer to the question not Bushs.***



Give us a break Carey. You make a lousy DA. Spots answered the question.

so, is that anon Carey???  

PLEASE, ALL ANONS at least sign your anonymous posts with something like 'A1' or something so we at least know which anon asked which question.  We're not asking anyone to give away their name or any other personal information, but, do you know how difficult it is to keep you guys straight???

A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.
http://www.mises.org/liberal/ch1sec11.asp' target='_new'>Ludwig Von Mises

[Anonymous]

The very idea that parents would be rewarded for their child's alleged suffering turns my stomach.  Who signed the contract?  Who hired the transporters?  As long as the children, who after all, are the REAL CONSUMER of the product (contract) their parent's bought into, are paid and NOT their parents, I can live with an agreement like the one being discussed in this thread.  It is far from the ideal scenario (the much bally-hooed class-action lawsuit) but who really knows whether that was even a viable option in the first place?  Nobody - except the plaintiffs, and apparently, they ain't talkin, which is their right and their privilege. So be it.

[spots]

On 2004-03-09 14:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"The very idea that parents would be rewarded for their child's alleged suffering turns my stomach.  

A major thrust of a lawsuit against WWASPS is that parents were defrauded, that they were told their children were going to get a quality education (Harvard and "Yail" have been used [anecdotally] as next-step colleges), their children would be able to receive quality therapy by licensed therapists (one Doc of questionable caliber, mostly not available, the rest a daily session of ripping new belly buttons by other children in the same boat), quality food prepared by left-over resort chefs (a Dundee parent posting just last week was specifically promised this benefit), quality time in off-site exotic locations (not available for a least a year, most likely a lot longer and offered next-to-never at that).  The signing parents interested in this suit feel they were defrauded of their money, meant to be spent to enhance their childrens' lives.  They feel abused, played for suckers.  They are mad, hurt, feel foolish, and...big thing here...they and their children feel poorer for the experience that nobody had in mind in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Fraud?  Isn't that a CRIMINAL, not civil offense?

[Cayo Hueso]

My understanding is that it can be pursued in BOTH venues.  Civil is for requesting/assessing damages whether they be actual or punitive or both.  

Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.  -- My First Summer in the Sierra , 1911, page 110.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0395353513/' target='_new'> John Muir

[Anonymous]

How many parents who ultimately *contracted* their kids into these places can testify that they PERSONALLY visited the program to ensure the quality of their child's care and treatment BEFORE signing an enrollment agreement?  Not many from what I can tell.  Second, of these parents, how many hired escort services to transport their child into the *contracted program* instead of escorting their child, themselves?  At the very least, that would have afforded the parent the opportunity to meet the people in charge of taking care of their children, tour the kitchen, food prep areas, school library, bathroom and showers, sleeping accomodations, extracurricular activities, etc. etc. etc. and more importantly, if not satisfied, prompt them to change their mind and with-child-in-hand, return home to look at other options.  

 ::

[Cayo Hueso]

My parents visited the program I was in.  Both came away from their tour with glowing reports.  These parents are SCARED OUT OF THEIR MINDS with a child that may or may not be 'out of control'.  The whole hype around the Drug War has become nothing more than a way for these places to scare parents into 'enrolling' their kids.  My parents were truly concerned for what I was doing, as I have been numerous times with my own kids.  My parents were told that I would get adequate food and care.  That was FAR from what actually happened.  

Yes, the parents are ultimately responsible for where their child goes, but I can tell you from personal experience both as a child and a parent that what the parents are told and what actually happens are, quite often, two VERY different things.

Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
--Rep. Robert L. Henry, TX December 22, 1914 (quoting Lincoln)

[Anonymous]

Oh, and one another question ...

How many of these parent plaintiffs were referred by another parent, educational consultant or independent referral agent?  Are these people being sued for alleging "defrauding" the parent, as well?  What happens if the referring party disputes the allegation that the referred program was abusive, and/or claims that they (the referring agent) had no PRIOR knowledge of allegations of abuse? I'll tell you what happens. NOTHING. It's called a DISCLAIMER. Second, if these plaintiffs settle quietly, how can other parents, educational consultants and independent referral agents be expected to steer clear of referring other parents if they DO NOT KNOW any better?

 :silly:

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2004-03-09 08:50:00, cayohueso wrote:

"It appears that you're not getting the answer you're looking for from Spots.  OK, move on to discuss this with people who ARE responding, they've asked some pointed questions of you...be the bigger person and answer those questions if you truly want to carry on a valuable discussion of this issue.  Beating a dead horse is not getting you anywhere, maybe she hasn't been on the computer for a while, maybe she's sick, maybe she's busy but if she's not answering, move on to someone who is still carrying on the conversation.



So, what IS your position on this?  Are you saying that no abuse happened or what?  Just trying to clarify

I would still like an answer to THIS question.  And the one I asked about the reference to Carey being one of the anons.  Can I get an answer to those?

By 1940 the literacy figure for all states stood at 96 percent for whites. Eighty percent for blacks. Notice for all the disadvantages blacks labored under, four of five were still literate. Six decades later, at the end of the 20th century, the National Adult Literacy Survey and the National Assessment of Educational Progress say 40 percent of blacks and 17 percent of whites can't read at all. Put another way, black illiteracy doubled, white illiteracy quadrupled, despite the fact that we spend three or four times as much real money on schooling as we did 60 years ago.
--Vin Suprynowicz

[Cayo Hueso]

Was it too much trouble for you to add a little "A1" at the bottom of your posts?  It would really be helpful to know which anon I"m addressing.

The hypothalamus is one of the most important parts of the brain, involved in many kinds of motivation, among other functions.  The hypothalamus controls the "Four F's": 1. fighting;  2. fleeing;  3.feeding; and  4. mating.
-- Psychology professor in neuropsychology intro course

[Anonymous]

On 2004-03-09 17:07:00, cayohueso wrote:

"My parents visited the program I was in.  Both came away from their tour with glowing reports.  These parents are SCARED OUT OF THEIR MINDS with a child that may or may not be 'out of control'.  The whole hype around the Drug War has become nothing more than a way for these places to scare parents into 'enrolling' their kids.  My parents were truly concerned for what I was doing, as I have been numerous times with my own kids.  My parents were told that I would get adequate food and care.  That was FAR from what actually happened.  



Yes, the parents are ultimately responsible for where their child goes, but I can tell you from personal experience both as a child and a parent that what the parents are told and what actually happens are, quite often, two VERY different things.

Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
--Rep. Robert L. Henry, TX December 22, 1914 (quoting Lincoln)

"

No, blaming parents is NOT the answer, however, the reality is the parents are ultimately responsible for the care and treatment of their child while in residential care.  No matter how desperate, worried, afraid for or of their children, no parent can afford to send their child away into a program sight-unseen. It just isn't smart.

[Cayo Hueso]

Evidently you didn't READ my post.  My parents did not send me to that place 'sight unseen'.  They saw quite a bit of it.  What they were told and what they saw were LIES.

Could you please answer the questions I posed to you now?

People everywhere enjoy believing things that they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000051WYJ/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> BROOKS ATKINSON (1894-1984), Once Around The Sun, 1951.

[Anonymous]

A major thrust of a lawsuit against WWASPS is that parents were defrauded, that they were told their children were going to get a quality education (Harvard and "Yail" have been used [anecdotally] as next-step colleges), their children would be able to receive quality therapy by licensed therapists (one Doc of questionable caliber, mostly not available, the rest a daily session of ripping new belly buttons by other children in the same boat), quality food prepared by left-over resort chefs (a Dundee parent posting just last week was specifically promised this benefit), quality time in off-site exotic locations (not available for a least a year, most likely a lot longer and offered next-to-never at that). The signing parents interested in this suit feel they were defrauded of their money, meant to be spent to enhance their childrens' lives. They feel abused, played for suckers. They are mad, hurt, feel foolish, and...big thing here...they and their children feel poorer for the experience that nobody had in mind in the first place.

What a spin on the definition of abuse.   :cry2:  :cry2: That is pitiful.  I feel for you and your cohorts.  You all sure have put a spin on this case.  Why would any parent considering placement in a WWASP program think you all have ever been telling the truth. Most of us know the story about the boy who cried wolf.  Do you?

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2004-03-09 17:27:00, cayohueso wrote:

"


Could you please answer the questions I posed to you now

OK, pretty please???  Will that work?

Janis, Jimi, Gery, Timothy... Did you HAVE to get so close to the edge to get a really good view?
-- Anonymous