Spots here is the question, plain and simple.

[Anonymous]

Spots answer the question, will these parents settle this case quietly?

This case has gone from something public, as it has been anounced over and over again on public boards, to something quite the contrary.

If one does not join the direct action law suit, meaning if one does not claim abuse, then one doesn't get to know the outcome?

Is that the way it is going to be? Are you saying that those of us who are trying to find the truth based on all the claims these plaintifs have made may never know the truth?

Wow, I guess that means these plaintifs get paid and then they just walk away and let the abuse of other peoples children just go on? That is pretty sad.

I can't imagine that people can claim such rampant abuse...yet just take some money for it and walk away. What kind of plaintifs are these?

[Kiwi]

What kind of plaintifs are these?

The normal kind: ones who ask the court for compensation.  As I have said before, the purpose of civil courts is to provide compensation for victims of injustice.  You can't say to the judge "hold the compensation but let me publicize how evil these people are".  It doesn't work like that.

By the way, why do you keep starting a new thread?

[ This Message was edited by: Kiwi on 2004-03-08 15:50 ]

[Anonymous]

Kiwi, who is asking you?  Not me.  I am asking Spots.  Can you not read?    

Why do I keep starting a new thread?  How about why do you keep answering a question posed to someone else?

Lets try again, this time note Kiwi, it is addressed to Spots.

  Spots answer the question, will these parents settle this case quietly?

This case has gone from something public, as it has been anounced over and over again on public boards, to something quite the contrary.

If one does not join the direct action law suit, meaning if one does not claim abuse, then one doesn't get to know the outcome?

Is that the way it is going to be? Are you saying that those of us who are trying to find the truth based on all the claims these plaintifs have made may never know the truth?

Wow, I guess that means these plaintifs get paid and then they just walk away and let the abuse of other peoples children just go on? That is pretty sad.

I can't imagine that people can claim such rampant abuse...yet just take some money for it and walk away. What kind of plaintifs are these?

Now Kiwi try and refrain from speaking for Spots.  Spots is involved and has been invovled with those who originated the suit.  She is the one I want to hear from.  She along with the others are in this to protect the teens, they are not in it for the money. :lol: It is suppose to be all about saving children from abuse.  It is not suppose to be them getting out of it what they put into it....that "it" being money.

[Deborah]

Anon,
Your style is so... familiar.

Why don't you try to refrain from posting "private" messages on a "public" message board? If you want to chat it up with Spots ONLY, send her a private message. Otherwise, it's free game for whoever wants to comment on your  ::spam::

Of course, the lawsuit might end in settlement. They usually do. Did you expect something different? What's the point. Stop beating around the bush and spit it out. Were you rejected as a plantiff?

Do you have a better suggestion for "saving the kids"?

[Anonymous]

Sorry Deborah your posts don't interest me.

Spots answer the question, will these parents settle this case quietly?

This case has gone from something public, as it has been anounced over and over again on public boards, to something quite the contrary.

If one does not join the direct action law suit, meaning if one does not claim abuse, then one doesn't get to know the outcome?

Is that the way it is going to be? Are you saying that those of us who are trying to find the truth based on all the claims these plaintifs have made may never know the truth?

Wow, I guess that means these plaintifs get paid and then they just walk away and let the abuse of other peoples children just go on? That is pretty sad.

I can't imagine that people can claim such rampant abuse...yet just take some money for it and walk away. What kind of plaintifs are these?

Now Kiwi try and refrain from speaking for Spots. Spots is involved and has been invovled with those who originated the suit. She is the one I want to hear from. She along with the others are in this to protect the teens, they are not in it for the money.  It is suppose to be all about saving children from abuse. It is not suppose to be them getting out of it what they put into it....that "it" being money.

Spots do you care to elaborate?

[Deborah]

***I can't imagine that people can claim such rampant abuse...yet just take some money for it and walk away. What kind of plaintifs are these?***

This seems to be your primary issue. What would you have the plantiffs do anon? In other words, what exactly do you assume is within their power to do, that they are not doing?
Are you leading a campaign to save the kids, which you'd prefer the plantiffs to join instead of the lawsuit? Just trying to figure out WHERE you're coming from.

PS
It appears to me that Spots addressed those questions in another thread:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=10#39130



[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2004-03-09 04:38 ]

[Anonymous]

Did you say something Deborah?  Sorry I must have missed it....Deliberately.

Spots answer the question, will these parents settle this case quietly?

This case has gone from something public, as it has been anounced over and over again on public boards, to something quite the contrary.

If one does not join the direct action law suit, meaning if one does not claim abuse, then one doesn't get to know the outcome?

Is that the way it is going to be? Are you saying that those of us who are trying to find the truth based on all the claims these plaintifs have made may never know the truth?

Wow, I guess that means these plaintifs get paid and then they just walk away and let the abuse of other peoples children just go on? That is pretty sad.

I can't imagine that people can claim such rampant abuse...yet just take some money for it and walk away. What kind of plaintifs are these?

Now Kiwi try and refrain from speaking for Spots. Spots is involved and has been invovled with those who originated the suit. She is the one I want to hear from. She along with the others are in this to protect the teens, they are not in it for the money. It is suppose to be all about saving children from abuse. It is not suppose to be them getting out of it what they put into it....that "it" being money.

Tell me Spots how has this once highly publicized case (you know the one that his publicised in order to draw in all of those dissatisfied parents who are claiming abuse, wide spread abuse) going to help children  still in these programs if it is kept quiet.

[Deborah]

Of course you "missed it". I imagine because you do not have an alternative to share and would prefer to bash the effort that is being made.
So... you demand that Spots answer your questions, which she has already done, or you can answer mine.
What do you propose as an alternative anon?

[Anonymous]

What effort?  Are you talking about a quiet settlement?  How is that an effort to make change?  

Deborah you have a lot of input on the topic of residential placement.  What you don't have is any history with those involved (other than of course them monitoring through you Barbe's board/listserv) with the "class action /direct action."  I am asking Spots the question because she does.  She knows what this hoopla has suppose to have been about from the very beginning.  It was suppost to have been about exposing those who have been accused of abuse.  It has obviously changed.  I am asking Spots to tell us why.  

I am asking how this class action will do anything other than put money in the pockets of dissatisfied consumers.  If the details are kept quiet, then these people are just that, dissatisfied consumers and not victims of abuse.  From all of the accusations they have made, the rampant abuse they claim takes place within WWASP programs, how can they take a quiet settlement?  HOW?

Now Deborah, you have a lot to say about everything, we all know that.  But on this topic you are not privy to the details.  Your input is generic and best.

[Anonymous]

Spots has not answered the question.

How will a quiet settlement help children who are being abused in a program that is rampant with abuse according to those behind the law suit?

Is the answer it won't....not our problem.  We are just wanting money?

If what these plaintifs say is true, how will a quiet settlement help children who are still in these programs? Has all their preaching and trashing of other parents, those who still beleive in the program (in an attempt to make them see they need to save their children) all of a sudden become none of their concern as long as they get compensation, money, paid off to be quiet about it.  In other words, pay us off and we will be quiet about it?

[Kiwi]

Spots has not answered the question.

She has, as Deborah has already pointed out twice.  Or to be more precise, she has answered your incoherent vitriole as well as anyone possibly can.  She cannot predict the outcome of a lawsuit that has not even been filed, as has also been pointed out to you.  But you just ignore what you don't want to hear.

You complain about spots not answering questions but you don't answer Deborah's.  What, exactly, is your problem?  Quit sitting on the sidelines sniping and tell us where you stand.  What do you propose?  Are you insinuating the abuse didn't happen?  If so, come right out and say it.  Are you saying the plaintiffs are not doing enough to stop the abuse?  If so, what should they be doing?  And what are you doing?

[Anonymous]

Spots has not answered the question.

How will a quiet settlement help children who are being abused in a program that is rampant with abuse according to those behind the law suit?

Is the answer it won't....not our problem. We are just wanting money?

If what these plaintifs say is true, how will a quiet settlement help children who are still in these programs? Has all their preaching and trashing of other parents, those who still beleive in the program (in an attempt to make them see they need to save their children) all of a sudden become none of their concern as long as they get compensation, money, paid off to be quiet about it. In other words, pay us off and we will be quiet about it

[Anonymous]

Well, thanks, guys....you have continually and repeatedly pointed to Ms. Anon that I have "answered" her questions.  To define these demands as "questions" is a giant stretch.  To Ms. Anon....

You, Madam, are incredibly RUDE!  This public forum is a free-for-all, but reading through past postings reveals that even the most contentuous posters follow some sort of decorum.  The most obvious violators are the posts dumping everything back onto PURE.  Hhhmmm...are we dealing with a forlorn and lonely parent here who checks this forum several times a day, sniping and adding comment just to rile folks?  I don't believe this person has EVER indicated that she is a happy parent of a happy WWASP graduate.  Could it be she is a bored clerk in LaVerkin, UT? In any event, the lack of social grace is stunning.

Now, the blatant in-your-face nasty demands for legal info, for prognostication, or for defense of my statements tells us something about this person.  

#1 she can't read or understand "answers", or really doesn't want to, because she is not really "asking", is she?

#2 she spends a lot of time on this forum, maybe because her beligerent attitude carries over into her other-world social experiences, and the computer is more friendly than real people.

#3 if she is a parent, her attitude of attacking, demanding, not listening or acknowledging information contrary to her pre-conceived stance is the quintessential WWASPS parent stance.  I'm sorry for a child born to this family, but this person may have learned from her own painful life experiences with an equally-strident parent in her own past.  

As I said earlier (sigh), my greatest sadness comes in knowing that there will always be such parents who demean their own children, speak of them as little darlings, manipulators, liars, etc., and treat them as adversaries to be conquered rather than children to be nurtured.  WWASPS has only been in business for a decade, and they have hit a soft spot in families who have more money than brains.  This will run its course, but probably be replaced in time with yet another scheme for gullible adults.  What we can do now is to take away this avenue for imprisonment, and put the standards of child welfare already in place in the United States to work in Third World countries or in states with lax juvenile oversight.

[Cayo Hueso]

It appears that you're not getting the answer you're looking for from Spots.  OK, move on to discuss this with people who ARE responding, they've asked some pointed questions of you...be the bigger person and answer those questions if you truly want to carry on a valuable discussion of this issue.  Beating a dead horse is not getting you anywhere, maybe she hasn't been on the computer for a while, maybe she's sick, maybe she's busy but if she's not answering, move on to someone who is still carrying on the conversation.

So, what IS your position on this?  Are you saying that no abuse happened or what?  Just trying to clarify.

It only takes a little prescience to understand that we're all fair game for the deeds we condone.

--Antigen

[Anonymous]

With all due respect, Spots is the one who the question is asked of.  I don't think it appropriate that President Bush would respond to a question asked directly of Clinton, such as why he lied in the White House, is quite the same as Clinton himself responding to a question asked of him.  If I asked Clinton why he lied, I want his answer to the question not Bushs.

I have a better idea, how about telling those who seem to think they should answer for others, not not respond to question that are not directed at them.  Why don't you ask them why they feel the need to answer Spots question?

Now they can comment on any thing posted here.  I just don't think you, they or anyone else should expect me to accept their answer to a question posed to Spots, as it is not their answer to the question that I seek.

Spots has not answered the question.

How will this suit help children who are being abused?

If the answer Spots has is anything other than it won't, then I would like to hear it from her.

This suit was started and solicited for as a suit that would save kids from abuse.  It seems to have changed.  Remember these people were on a crusade to help kids who are suffering.