Author Topic: Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?  (Read 4367 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« on: March 07, 2004, 05:12:00 PM »
Spots said:

"The goal of this suit is to garner monetary damages for its plaintiffs...which is the obvious goal of about 99% of lawsuits"



I thought it was suppose to be about saving children from abuse? I thought there was a more heroic reason for this suit. I did not realize it was to put money in the pockets of a few.  

How will this suit save the children Spots?  Or, is that not what it really has been about? Will the settlement be disclosed or will it be kept a "secret."  Will those individuals who may or may not recieve payment agree to keep quite about the settlement?

Who, Spots has been recruiting the plantiffs for this suit?   Is it Sue and Paula?
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Offline Anonymous

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2004, 06:19:00 PM »
I believe Spots was honest in her statement.  The parents paid for a program that their children refused to work.  It is documented so much that these kids cry abuse just to get their parents to believe them and bring them home.  For those that buy into their kids delusions, they want their money back.  PERIOD.  The threat of a lawsuit is enough to keep parents from getting help, not just wwasp but all the other schools out there that are for healing, not hurting.  Since wwasp is so large, they are the target, but out of the few that want their money back, there are SO many more, thousands, that can attest to the success and results from seeking help and not turning to quick fixes or just allowing their child to destroy their life in more ways than one.  

Yes, money is the purpose.  Tiny little minds, as Spots said.
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Offline Deborah

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2004, 09:39:00 PM »
The expected spin from program supporters.

It is very likely there would be no lawsuit if the program had not deceived parents and employed BM techniques that any reasonable person would consider abuse. Plain and simple.

How will the lawsuit help to save kids? By bringing the public's attention to the issue. And, as in the class action I was involved in, the program could be required to make substantial changes to the way it operates.

I assume that is the goal and hope of those involved.

And if the parents who were deceived get their money back and then some, all the better.
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2004, 01:57:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-03-07 18:39:00, Deborah wrote:

"

The expected spin from program supporters.


You bet I support wwasp.  You have no experience of wwasp, so that's an expected spin from you.


It is very likely there would be no lawsuit if the program had not deceived parents and employed BM techniques that any reasonable person would consider abuse. Plain and simple.


Any reasonable person.  I supposed the few that are unhappy and believe their child was abused are the reasonable ones? You and a few others have been closed to the hundred of families that disagree with ya'll.
 

How will the lawsuit help to save kids? By bringing the public's attention to the issue. And, as in the class action I was involved in, the program could be required to make substantial changes to the way it operates.



The only people it will help is those that oppose wwasp  - the educational consultants and those that don't get monetary reimbursement for referring to wwasp.


I assume that is the goal and hope of those involved.



What...another ASSumptions from Deborah, go figure!


And if the parents who were deceived get their money back and then some, all the better.

"

It's ALL about the money, don't kid yourself.
 
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Offline Kiwi

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2004, 06:06:00 AM »
Quote
The only people it will help is those that oppose wwasp - the educational consultants and those that don't get monetary reimbursement for referring to wwasp.


And the people who do refer to WWASP?  Don't they get paid?

I get fed up with hearing this line.  If you were judging competing recommendations, one from an ed con who openly makes money from commission and one from a program parent swearing that her little Johnny would be deadorinjail if it hadn't been for WWASP, who would you believe?  The parent, of course.

How many of these parents mention that they get 1000 bucks a pop (or several times that in credits if little Johnny is still in the program)?  And what about all the WWASP referral sites?  Do the operators run them as a hobby?  Don't tell me they don't get paid.  How many of them mention that they only refer to WWASP?  Or even mention WWASP?  They may not say it but they give the impression that they are recommending a number of unrelated schools as a service to the community.

[ This Message was edited by: Kiwi on 2004-03-08 03:07 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2004, 08:19:00 AM »
Quote
How will the lawsuit help to save kids? By bringing the public's attention to the issue. And, as in the class action I was involved in, the program could be required to make substantial changes to the way it operates.

I assume that is the goal and hope of those involved.
 


Deborah you are assuming that the out come of the law suit, assuming their is one, will be publisized.  What if it is settled out of court?  What if the parties agree to settle it quietly?  Remember when this group of people started their crusade they said this case was not about money but it was about saving kids.  

Really though Deborah, it is not your assumption that I wanted to hear, it was Spots answer I was seeking.  She seems to have an in with the "parties involved."  She seems to know that the case is about money as she said 99% of all cases are just that.  

Spots will this case be settled in open court with the media involved?  Will the details of this case be out there for others to learn from?
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Offline Kiwi

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2004, 10:09:00 AM »
Quote
Spots will this case be settled in open court with the media involved? Will the details of this case be out there for others to learn from?


While spots has her crystal ball out, perhaps she can tell us next week's winning lottery number.  Get real.  Who can say how it will pan out?

In an ideal world WWASP would publicly admit liability and pay generous compensation.  Back in the real world they will fight tooth and nail, laywers will have to be paid, people's financial resources will be limited, outcomes are uncertain and people often have to accept a non-optimal compromise.

The case may be taken on a contingency basis but if the lawyers are financing the action their top priority will be the payout, whatever anyone else's motivation may be.  Anyway, why shouldn't the kids get compensation?
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Offline Anonymous

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2004, 10:25:00 AM »
Kids get compensation?   ::noway::
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Offline Anonymous

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2004, 10:33:00 AM »
KISI - It's the parents that have the experience, first hand, and know about the process, the program, the staff and the changes within the family the occurred.  The parents don't ask for a free month for sharing this the parents in crisis.  They were there themselves and know how much it means to be able to help another parent.  They don't tell the parents what to do.  They don't do the admission.  More parents share and don't get the free month than do.  Tell me another program that helps the parents with the tuition?

If you've read  WWASPS vs PURE, you will see that it documented that PURE (Sue Scheff) was very much into making a living from referrals to WWASP until they told her that they would not pay her for referrals if she was referring to other schools.  THey don't pay educational consultants or those like PURE that are paid by other schools to refer to them.

This class action, from what I have read, is promoted by PURE to further their agenda.
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Offline Anonymous

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2004, 11:16:00 AM »
Quote
Spots will this case be settled in open court with the media involved? Will the details of this case be out there for others to learn from?



While spots has her crystal ball out, perhaps she can tell us next week's winning lottery number. Get real. Who can say how it will pan out?

In an ideal world WWASP would publicly admit liability and pay generous compensation. Back in the real world they will fight tooth and nail, laywers will have to be paid, people's financial resources will be limited, outcomes are uncertain and people often have to accept a non-optimal compromise.

The case may be taken on a contingency basis but if the lawyers are financing the action their top priority will be the payout, whatever anyone else's motivation may be. Anyway, why shouldn't the kids get compensation?


Well then Kiwi, they have not set out to do what they claimed to have been doing from the very beginning.  If they accept a quiet settlement, then they have helped no one but themselves.  I remember reading many posts about this class action and how it was going to expose WWASP for all their "wrong doings."  How can they expose them (WWASP) if they (the plantiffs and their attorneys) accept the money quietly.
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Offline Antigen

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2004, 12:08:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-03-08 08:16:00, Anonymous wrote:

This class action, from what I have read, is promoted by PURE to further their agenda.


Yes. And Hitler promoted war against Stalin to further his agenda. Neither one was a good guy.


If it weren't so sad, it would be funny seeing WWASPies point the finger about money grubbing. Get some reality, folks! You YOU are paying or have paid tens of thousands of dollars to have your kids kept in accomodations in what wouldn't fetch $50/night in some third world tourist trap. The staff is not professional and not paid very well. There is no highly skilled kitchen team; no hors riding or sailboarding instructor. No real expenses at all, except of course that of defending against the inevitable lawsuits from a continual stream of unhappy former customers.

Who's all about the money here?

Boundary, n.  In political geography, an imaginary line between two nations, separating the imaginary rights of one from the imaginary rights of another.
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Offline Kiwi

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2004, 12:16:00 PM »
Quote
Well then Kiwi, they have not set out to do what they claimed to have been doing from the very beginning. If they accept a quiet settlement, then they have helped no one but themselves. I remember reading many posts about this class action and how it was going to expose WWASP for all their "wrong doings." How can they expose them (WWASP) if they (the plantiffs and their attorneys) accept the money quietly.


Who are "they"?  There are many plaintifs, not all of whom have posted here and elsewhere, each with their own motivations and few of them at all interested in PURE.  What they want to achieve and what they manage to achieve are two different things.

By the way, the purpose of civil courts is to provide compensation to the victims of injustice.  Airing dirty laundry is just an occasional, if welcome, by-product.
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Offline Anonymous

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2004, 12:40:00 PM »
Quote
Who are "they


"They" are the plaintiffs. Are we now trying to separate ourselves from PURE?  Why?  

Don't play dumb now, we all know where, when, why and how this case originated.  We know how hard Sue and Paula have worked to pull all of these plaintiffs together.
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Offline Carey

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2004, 12:47:00 PM »
conspiracy - the act of conspiring

conspire - to plan together in secret

I can see it.  Why did it all have to be done in secret?  Is it because some of those who were party to the activity were doing something wrong?
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Offline spots

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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2004, 05:38:00 PM »
Uuuhhh....this whole thread has taken off in some really weird directions, thanks to a very fanatic Anon.  This WWASPie Anon has a tricky way with quotes, or she doesn't know how to respond without the "yellow", so I've given up wading through her babbling and can't really address what the heck she's talking about.

To go back to the basics;

...this is a legal action, in which a good law firm has a contingency interest.  This is just fine, and is the way that 99% of such matters are processed. There's money to be made, and Huron and Masrey is a business.  ALL businesses are working for the money, even if they are St. Jude's Hospital or the Sierra Club, since all businesses need money to continue. The prospect of a large profit ($$$$ :eek: ) also tends to involve the more competent legal minds, as one would have to think twice before handing such a volatile case to 4 new law school graduates operating out of a storefront, eager to change the world with their first case.

...PURE and Sue and Paula are zooming in from Left Field again. When all else fails, Anon, you can always drag these names into the conversation.  99% of your readers will say, "Huh?"

...Deborah has no experience of WWASPS, so she has invalid input?  This is really stupid, as we know that Deborah has scads of background information, has researched this INDUSTRY [WWASPS is absolutely no different from any other behavior modification group], and is an intelligent, articulate, and accurate voice in Fornits. FWIW, I DO have experience with WWASPS, and I know it sucks, Big Time.

...let's see, on 3/07/04 at 15:19, Anon mentioned "...SO many more, thousands, that can attest to the success...".  On 3/07/04 at 18:39, Anon mentions "...hundred [sic] of families that disagree with ya'll."  Hundreds, thousands???..., close enough.  Suffice it to say A LOT, huh, Anon?  How many kids-turned-adults, 5 years or so out of The Program?

...I don't believe any plaintiff in this suit has stated that the primary goal of this action is to stop abuse.  There are as many reasons as there are plaintiffs for joining this suit, and I suspect bringing down the vehicle of their torment (WWASPS) is paramount in their minds.  However, a civil suit does not work that way.  One cannot go into court and "shut down" a business by claiming they abuse.  That is not the function of a civil court.  That is a legislative or criminal action.  Publicity is a strong weapon, as is depleting the coffers of the defendent by winning a large judgement against them.  But a civil suit is a very good way to implement one's vision, and there is nothing wrong with going this direction.  Remember, Al Capone was finally beaten by the Feds for evading income tax...not murder, mayhem, and racketeering...  but evading income tax, a proveable Federal offense.  Same end result; clever method to enforce the public's will.

The legal suit being formulated by Huron Law is just one arm of the tentacles that will envelop WWASPS.  The really sad thing is that there are parents (hundreds? thousands?) who are so at odds with their children that they hire an expensive intermediary to implement what they cannot.  It is OK with them if their children are poorly fed, under-educated, isolated, harangued, beaten down emotionally by other kids, made to give up their own personalities in favor of The Party Line, made to lose their childhood, and eventually alienated from the parents that every person should have.  If all we can do is bring the light of truth to the deceitfull advertising, try to expose the more-intelligent parents to what real BM practices are, to encourage parents that what they are going through with their incorrigible teenagers is really pretty normal (even extensive drug use), then we will have triumphed.  We can't fight all the windmills of clueless and evil parents, but we can make it very hard to shunt children off into the dark and abandon them.  If children are being abused, Society has to step in when parents fail.  That's all there is to it.
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