Author Topic: Alcohol use in Europe vs the United States  (Read 3847 times)

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Offline none-ya

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Alcohol use in Europe vs the United States
« on: June 15, 2013, 01:03:52 PM »
Tell me Oscar, does Denmark really allow kids to legally drink? I can only imagine what it would be like if 16 year olds could buy beer here in the US. I just don't  see that as healthy no matter where you live.
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Offline Oscar

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Re: E-book: Janice's journey
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2013, 08:56:37 AM »
About Danish alcohol culture in general: Alcohol culture in Denmark (link)

If I want to serve alcohol to my own kids there is no limit. At my house I have told my kids that they cannot drink alcohol before they are confirmed in church. In fact they can attend service in church and drink about a very small glass of wine (Drink the blood of Jesus) and a very dry bread while they prepare for thier confirmation. At some churches the wine is with no alcohol in but not in the local church.

If they go down to a normal shop they have to be 16 before they can buy beers or wine. Stronger alcohol has an agelimit of 18 because research have shown that the dangerous limit for minors is 16.5. There are especially softdrinks with alochol targeting in minors held in the same colors as candy (See link)

For stronger alcohol the agelimit is 18. The same goes if they want to go into a club.

On the campuses of our high schools they have friday bars to reduce the amount of students who choose to drop out.

I think that our presents laws are acceptable despite the fact that I really want past times where there were no agelimits because I believe that it is the parent's jobs to secure a productive life for your child.
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Offline none-ya

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Re: E-book: Janice's journey
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2013, 10:53:57 AM »
Quote
Oscar wrote;
On the campuses of our high schools they have Friday bars to reduce the amount of students who choose to drop out.

Beer in school? Maybe it could keep kids in school longer. I don't see it making them smarter. Besides, if they can by beer legally at 16, why stay in school.
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Offline Oscar

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Re: E-book: Janice's journey
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2013, 03:44:20 PM »
Quote from: "none-ya"
in school? Maybe it could keep kids in school longer. I don't see it making them smarter. Besides, if they can by beer legally at 16, why stay in school.

The goal is to make them socializing - not drunk. And it works. Bullying is down because it is study to bully those who you drink with. Nerds become accepted because once people start to talk they learn what they can get of information from the nerds to improve their grades.

Last but not least. Security. We cannot hide behind visa-rules because we don't have a natural border like an ocean between us and terrorists.There is no report worldwide of an alcohol consumping suicide bomber. Since 1970 there have been 3 cases where people have planted bombs in Denmark. One was a Dane. He was injured when his bomb went off before time. In fact it has happened in the two other cases also where the villians were foreigners. Something seem to have been wrong with their timers.

So every student know that alcohol drinkers are safe and those who don't drink needs to be reported to the authorities. Every single firm in Denmark got a letter last year warning us to look after co-workers who act "undanish". I guess the schools have received such a letter also.
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Offline Oscar

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Social heritage in Denmark
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2013, 03:18:10 AM »
I found this piece in a blog belonging to another member of this board written years ago Why I declined to be a valedictorian (bebo blog)

It shows that we Danes believe that we are born to serve in a certain position in our society and nothing more.
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Offline none-ya

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Re: E-book: Janice's journey
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2013, 05:19:58 AM »
Quote
Oscar wrote;
The goal is to make them socializing - not drunk.

So why not socialize over snooty European coffee?

Quote
Nerds become accepted because once people start to talk they learn what they can get of information from the nerds to improve their grades.

So the nerds (smart kids) got to tutor the drunks?

Quote
So every student know that alcohol drinkers are safe and those who don't drink needs to be reported to the authorities. Every single firm in Denmark got a letter last year warning us to look after co-workers who act "undanish". I guess the schools have received such a letter also

What makes alcohol drinkers safe? And those who don't drink should be snitched on? To whom? The pro drunk committee? Is this really the Danish way?  This is farcical. I mean this would make great satire.  Except I'm afraid it's not. And that's fuckin' scary!
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Offline Oscar

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Re: E-book: Janice's journey
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2013, 03:12:26 AM »
I am sorry that you find our culture scary. I guess that there is price to pay for Denmark to be called "The happiest nation in the world" as Oprah stated.

Source: OPRAH ON LOCATION: THE HAPPIEST PEOPLE ON EARTH
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Offline psy

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Re: E-book: Janice's journey
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2013, 07:47:58 AM »
None-ya. It's precisely the European attitude towards drinking that prevents overreactions that land kids in programs.  Also by teaching kids to drink responsibly as they grow up, they don't binge and behave irresponsibly as they often do on reaching college in the states.  If you make something taboo, or imply it's associated only with "grown-ups" you make it desirable, and without instruction on responsibility, that's dangerous.  Alcohol dependence, when it happens, is generally treated as a medical problem by medical professionals, and not by a bunch of religious fruitcakes taking instruction from a guy who thought he saw god nearly a century ago while he was tripping balls on Belladonna.  I think Europe has exactly the right idea.

As to the whole deal with reporting people who act "un-danish".  I might not agree with that completely, but I can see where they're coming from.  Europe is not like the States.  In the States the general policy towards immigrants is "you're all welcome, come bring your culture to the melting pot".  In Europe, you're expected to assimilate into the native culture and failure to do so is...  Well it's frowned upon.  We're talking about small countries like Denmark where a flood of immigration from another culture could easily replace the native one.  They don't want that, so they do their best to pass laws or whatever to make sure the people behave in a manner that's consistent with the local culture.  In France, the state funds and supports French musicians and culture and so forth in an effort to stave off Hollywood.  It doesn't really work, but they try.  I'm not sure the Denmark thing will work either.  If they're trying to weed out terrorists by those who don't drink...  it sounds like a good idea on paper, but fundamentalist Muslims intent of martyrdom are not above having a drink to throw the authorities off their scent.
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Offline none-ya

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Re: E-book: Janice's journey
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2013, 10:47:12 AM »
"Drink responsibly?" That's an oxymoronic slogan brought to you the alcohol companies. If people drank only until their blood alcohol level was .08 or less, Those companies would go out of business.  And if someone drinks every day, the body grows dependent on it. That's the definition of addiction. Culture has nothing to do with it. Simply biology.  Tell me Psy, have you ever tried to learn something while drunk? Beer served in high school? Only the devil's advocate can defend that position. Just because a culture is older,doesn't make it better.

ps. This doesn't mean that I support Janice's kidnapping and incarceration.  Between  her parents and her boyfriend, she didn't have a chance.
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Offline blombrowski

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Re: E-book: Janice's journey
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2013, 11:13:47 AM »
In a culture where the companies making the alcohol (i.e. local wine and beer distributors) don't have enough of a market share to benefit from mass-consumption, and the advertisement of alcohol (and probably just about everything else) is regulated more than in the United States, parents have far more control in setting up the mores that drive alcohol consumption than they do in the States.

Anheiser-Busch and Miller Brewing Company are not in their marketing efforts disimilar to the tobacco companies.  It's in their business strategy to target youth to become loyal binge-users of their brand.  In America alcohol companies can have an impact alcohol drinking culture.  I imagine it's far different in Denmark.
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Offline psy

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Re: E-book: Janice's journey
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2013, 01:20:20 PM »
Quote from: "none-ya"
"Drink responsibly?" That's an oxymoronic slogan brought to you the alcohol companies. If people drank only until their blood alcohol level was .08 or less, Those companies would go out of business.  And if someone drinks every day, the body grows dependent on it. That's the definition of addiction. Culture has nothing to do with it. Simply biology.  Tell me Psy, have you ever tried to learn something while drunk?

I very rarely get drunk, so I can't say I've ever tried.  I don't think you're getting the point, though. The point in Europe is not to get drunk, but to get a bit "buzzed" for lack of a better term, in order to facilitate socialization and discussion in such, not to play drinking games until you pass out.  Different countries have differing norms as to what this level of lubrication is. In France a half bottle of wine (often ordered in a pitcher), with a meal between two people, is considered normal (if not an entire bottle).    In business meetings in France, you drink.  It's just a thing that happens in the culture.  There is even a wine drinking holiday where just about everybody gets trashed on cheap red wine known as "Beaujolais nouveau" (though the French generally do not readily admit to outsiders they participate in this holiday, or that they would drink such swill).

In Germany, Demmark, Ireland, and elsewhere, the level of acceptable "lubrication" is likely a bit higher.  Are people dependent?  No. Not everybody drinks every day and even those who do don't necessarily develop alcohol dependence.  Having a glass of wine with dinner, even every day, is not a sign of being a drunk in Europe, nor is having a beer with lunch.  It's not enough to cause alcohol withdrawal so no, it's not "simple biology".  It is culture, and because fewer people are dependent on cars to get around, it's much safer than in the states.

Quote
Beer served in high school? Only the devil's advocate can defend that position. Just because a culture is older,doesn't make it better.

If their culture involved stoning women to death, I might agree with you, but I don't see this as better or worse than US culture.  So they choose to drink. Big deal.  So their culture even considers getting drunk and socializing with friends to be OK. My god, the horror.  I agree alcohol has it's dangers, but a lot of those dangers are compounded by societal condemnation.  Where there is no societal condemnation, there is no problem.
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Offline Oscar

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Re: Alcohol use in Europe vs the United States
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2013, 03:02:30 PM »
The allowed blood alcohol level for drivers in Denmark was actually lowered from 0.8 to 0.5 due to a bridge to Sweden.

25 years since the worst school bus disaster in the United States (Trucker Blogs)

For reasons unknown people from Sweden can be drunk from lighter products like Skin milk. The  allowed blood alcohol level in Sweden is only 0.2 for the very same reason.

You cannot buy alcohol in ordinary shops either. Sweden have special permission from the European Union to sell alcohol from state-run shops only. They are also the only country in the European Union where they sell tobacco they chew instead of smoking it. Such tobacco is forbidden in the rest of the European countries.

Is it the gene pool? I don't know.
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Offline none-ya

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Re: Alcohol use in Europe vs the United States
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2013, 04:47:04 AM »
Quote
Oscar wrote;

For reasons unknown people from Sweden can be drunk from lighter products like Skin milk.


This is comedy!
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Offline Oscar

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Re: Alcohol use in Europe vs the United States
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2013, 03:54:07 PM »
Quote from: "none-ya"
This is comedy!

Here is some input from another message board: Drunken Swede tries to row home from Denmark (AR15.com)
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Offline none-ya

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Re: Alcohol use in Europe vs the United States
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2013, 07:08:17 AM »
If it's considered unpatriotic not to drink, then I guess they're only trying to save the rest of the world.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/06/1 ... al-trials/

But not to dismay, things are a changin. I would love to try some real Danish pastry.

http://denmark.dk/en/lifestyle/food-dri ... -age-food/
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