The Things Parents Do

[TheWho]

On 2005-11-22 21:20:00, Antigen wrote:

""I am sure if a violent crime was committed the kid would eventually report it. "



Nope. These programs are very effective, ya know. When I was fighting through the courts to stay out of Straight just prior to coming of age, I didn't understand that what I had seen and had been done to me was abuse. They asked, I said no, not really abuse. I believed at that time that I got sat on for a couple of hours by 4 - 6 girls on staff's order because I deserved it. My crime had been refusing to apologize to Group for running away. Not cussing, far less hurting anybody. Just saying I wasn't sorry, I wanted out and didn't want or need any more "help". That was after well over a year.



I doubt we even find out about all of the deaths. We only hear about it if the media picks up on it. The parents don't usually tell everybody. The parents usually blame the kid.



Here's what one WWASP mother said to a reporter after her son shot himself in the head while they were arguing over his getting sent back for some minor or perceived infraction or other:

"Despite the tragic outcome, Laura says that Teen Help was a godsend. Without it, she says, Corey might have died years earlier"



http://www.denver-rmn.com/desperate/sit ... esp1.shtml



So any study would have to be done like a criminal investigation. There would have to be enforcement of reporting requirements w/ teeth and a baseball bat when necessary. Kids would have to have practical, useful access to not only the outside world, but free time to relax, think for themselves, recreate, chat with friends outside of the institution, etc.



For all that to happen, we have to dispel the pervasive belief that teenagers are vile and violent animals who can't be trusted and should not be believed. Or at LEAST the one that they should be locked up incommunicado w/o criminal conviction.

Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"  Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown, _Peanuts_ [Charles Schulz]

"

I agree, but the reporting problems would be occuring in all areas, kids dieing in school and being dumped off campus or in a river somewhere, drug deals gone wrong and the body is dumped in the school gym etc. but over time these all shake out.  The data will tell the story, for example if a school experiences zero crime in an unusual amount of time, this would raise a red flag and spark an investigation, so trying to hid a problem would actually trigger an investigation.  National elections in Iraq, when Saddam was in power, showed that he received 100% of the votes, Saddam saw this as being overwhelming loved, the rest of the world saw it differently.
My point is that the data may be flawed but if you collect it consistently year to year it tells a story and leads you to the problem areas.  Just because the data is corrupt doesnt render it useless.

[Anonymous]

These schools don't keep data- and if they did- they certainly wouldn't make it public. Take your argument elsewhere, shill.  ::kma::

[TheWho]

On 2005-11-23 15:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"These schools don't keep data- and if they did- they certainly wouldn't make it public. Take your argument elsewhere, shill.  ::kma:: "

No one wants to air their dirty laundry, I agree, It will take work.  Why are so many against looking at the data?  The worst thing that could happen is raise awareness in problem areas, I dont see how this could possibly hurt, anyone?

[Antigen]

Because the real problem areas are the core methods and beliefs of the cult that runs these places.

I can't show you hard, properly gathered and peer reviewed data. It just doesn't exist, as far as I know. (and if it does, it's probably classified at the highest level... no kidding)

But if you spend some time reading from and talking with people who have been involved w/ all different TBS, bootcamps, day/foster home structured programs and wilderness programs, you'll find distinct differences, but undeniable comonalities.

It's the commonalities that interest me. They all demand confession w/o anything like evidence; like a kangaroo court. They all strictly limit communication w/ the outside world, among new inductees and even among advanced group members. They all operate on a pyramid marketing scheme more than anything. And they all, that I know of, seem to donate a LOT of money to certain political causes and candidates.

There's more, of course. The after effects are also remarkably similar.

Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
--Rep. Robert L. Henry, TX December 22, 1914 (quoting Lincoln)