poor taste in protesting a Holocaust seminar

[Therion]

Perhaps you missed the point..I didnt think it was disrespectful personally...but thats my opinion.The attack was on one person from what I saw...the protesting was done outside yes? What do you feel was in bad taste? The fact that we werent executed made it inappropriate?
 
 Im not being an ass im honestly asking..Perhaps you could be more specific in your complaint.


But the gist im getting is ...Jews were murdered and Straight kids were not so how dare we bring it up at that locale? I wasnt even there, and I have an open mind to you...Please state your argument more clearly..

And 100s of 1000s didint get executed...but the 100s of suicides count in my mind...

[ This Message was edited by: Therion on 2004-01-21 04:40 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Therion on 2004-01-21 05:06 ]

[kpickle39]

Jordan - I was at the picket and I would like to tell you why I attended.   I was there to protest the fact that Sembler's et al, Epstein adn Lowenberg, individuals that were directly responsible for Straight Inc being in existance for 17 years as members of the board of directors, are also on the Holocaust Museum's board of directors.  What I chanted (among other things) "remove Melvin, and Betty Sember, Bruce Epstien and Walter Lowenberg from the Board of directors of the holocaust museum.   It is not right that they are on the board of directors of the holocaust museum.  The holocaust museum is an honorable organization and it is disrespectful to the people that died in the holacust, survivors and the jewish people."  

Please tell me...how is that out of line?  I did not lie.  I was not dishonest.  I told people what happened to me in straight, what I saw and we pointed out wherre some of the blame lies.  We have tried to utilize the traditional sources of media to state our case, but the influence of those responsible for straigh tis still so great in the Tampa Bay area, that no one will even give us the time of day.  Do you not believe in peaceful demonstration?   Can not a person of jewish faith be held accountable for crimes against children.  Please, enlighten me.

sincerely,

Kpickle39
straight survivor, st pete '78 - '80

[kaydeejaded]

I feel that it is not bad taste at all. The pamphlet state clearly why they were protesting and who, and that it was not the jewish cause.

and what better way to show Melvin Sembler and his kinds duality for what it was then when they are speaking about human rights and representing past wrongs.
 protesting is only effective if it disrupts something important, emabrasses them in a way that will be felt.

Protesting something less important would have done nothing.

I think that you are wrong. I don't think you understand.

Are you saying that one injustice is more important then another? I hope not because an injustice is an injustice. Straight kids were tortured and it is still happening in similar programs. Kids have died by their own hands because of this place and continue to live with psycholocial repercussions.

Please do not compare our injustice to downplay it and make Melvin Sembler not held up before his peers as the person he truly is.

I would think more then ever you should want everyone to know, and get him away from being associated with the Holocaust Museum.

Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism--how passionately I hate them!
--Albert Einstein

[Anonymous]

The Honorable people of the Holocaust Museum have a right to know.  ?ESPECIALLY THE CONTRIBUTORS? Don?t you think they will be concerned to find out they have an abuser in their midst?  We have eyewitnesses that the people inside the event were ?VERY? concerned as they should be. What I don?t understand is how anyone Jewish can hesitate to expose someone EVIL, especially another Jewish person.  What gives here?  Why doesn?t the Jewish community rise up and make Sembler accountable??  

Why are you more critical of the survivors of straight than the perpetrator of the crimes, Sembler?  Don?t you think that what he did to us was in bad taste?  Don?t you think that the museum involvement with Sembler is in bad taste?  Don?t you think that Sembler portraying himself as a champion of helping kids is in bad taste?

Wake up and Smell the abuse??..it?s the same core beliefs as Hitler.  He justified his vision by abusing people.  It was wrong then and it?s wrong now with Sembler

SEMBLER = BAD TASTE AND DISHONOR

America deserves better than that, also it?s  bad taste for the Bush family to be associated with Sembler as they are.  The truth will come out here,  could you imagine the effect it could have on the election when Americans understand that the Bush family works with child abusers??

LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD?..

ABUSE SHALL NOT STAND EVEN IF YOUR JEWISH!  THE JEWISH COMMUNITY SHOULD HAVE THE HIGEST STANDARDS!!  WHY DON?T THEY DO MORE?

All I see from the Jewish community thus far is a cycle of looking the other way and sweeping it under the carpet.  This is deplorable and I believe all of the major members of the board of directors for the Holocaust museum should be fired if they don?t take action.  This is a clear a present situation that needs action, not excuses.  

I CHALLENGE YOU TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN YOUR JEWISH COMMUNITY.  

I personally met with the Larry Lasser Executive directory of the Holocaust museum about a year ago with Sammie at the holocaust museum.  They copied all of our documents.  They promised they would do something.  As I walked outside past the sign on the wall thanking Mel Sembler for money, I wanted to throw up.

The Holocaust museum decided to do nothing in the face of all the facts.  This is sad and this is Sick.  And most importantly ?THIS WON?T STAND?

[Carmel]

Jordan...

You mentioned choosing battles....it seems to me that is exactly what these people did, and did well.  What do you feel is in poorer taste?  The protest itself? Or the fact that these abusers are involved heavily with an organization that represents, well....represents YOU, to be specific.  The time for good and bad taste is over....good taste went out the window back in the 70's when the Seed opened and this whole mess began.  

If you knew a Nazi affiliate was involved in the Holocaust organization, would you think twice about whether or not your comments or actions to depose that person were in good taste?  I think maybe no....these people are not Nazi's, however, I would think that given their history and involvement in the abuses of Straight....that Jewish people would want to think twice about them running their organization.  Do you agree? How long before they start recruiting Jewish kids in your community to be tossed into the next generation of The Program? Dont let history repeat itself.

Everyone at the protest specifically informed the people present about exactly WHY they were there, and how they were not opposing the organization, merely the people running it.  I would like to think that a group of intelligent people like I assume were in attendance there...would be able to know the difference.

[Anonymous]

Jordan, this reminds me of some priest trying to protect his brethren from being prosecuted for abusing children, and as you know, those 'protected' priests got away with it for YEARS until people started coming forth and holding them accountable as the abusers they were. What's really tasteless here??? Us picketing against abuse or someone HIDING it??

Not saying you're trying to protect anyone Jordan, I'm saying that we have gotten nowhere with this group. It's time for those 4 to quit hiding behind religion (as did the priests), and own up to their involvement in Straight. They need to be kicked off the museum board, the museum has known about this situation for a while now and has done nothing about it. We are not going anywhere until they do.

[Froderik]

Not in bad taste at all...Gey gezunterheyt.

[Anonymous]

typical jew

[Anonymous]

On 2004-01-21 07:58:00, Sheik Yerbouti wrote:

"when u have relatives that burned in ovens maybe u will know.. all you people are radicalists that insist on comparing apples to oranges, its husr bad taste, make ur point elsewhere, get over yourseleves and learn soem common decency, the overwhelminf resposne to my post is just symbolic of how dilluded most of you are...bad taste is bad taste, if u dont see it, then my point has been proven...
"

Now YOU remember something. Most of us had people in our families fighting and dieing to liberate those camps where your relatives were killed. They died to make a better life for them and  us here. America (the liberator) should represent a country that doesn't encourage people to go into business torturing young people either. And if you still want to feel sorry for yourself and your struggle, then go to hell. Two wrongs NEVER make a right. Oh, and screw your "profound judgment", I have rights too and they were violated asshole.

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2004-01-21 08:13:00, Anonymous wrote:

"typical jew"

Bullshit, that was completely unnecessary.




Jordan - I respect what your family went through, but please go read the flyer that was passed out.  It's on Wes' site.  It CLEARLY states that this had NOTHING to do with the Holocaust Museum itself - it was simply an attempt to let people know who is on that board and what they truly stand for.  One of my good friends has a grandfather that is still alive and has his tatoo on the inside of his forearm.  When the news of this protest first hit, she asked him his thoughts.  He, a survivor of Auschwitz, was COMPLETELY BEHIND THE PROTEST.  He understood the distinction, especially after reading the flyer.  He was of the opinion that Sembler was a hypocrit and that the contributors and supporters of the museum would absolutely want to know what this guy did.  I think if THIS guy can see the distinction, others can also.

Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0807059099/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Mahatma Gandhi, My Autobigraphy, p. 446

[Froderik]

Oh, come on with the "typical Jew" BS anon..

Jordan, take a deep breath and consider that there was nothing but good intentions with the whole thing, and most importantly, SEMBLER and co. should NOT be on that board. It's as simple as that. What's the problem?

[Anonymous]

On 2004-01-21 08:13:00, Anonymous wrote:

"typical jew"

I agree with the other poster. THAT was a rotten thing to say. I am also the person who called Jordan an asshole.

You don't have to be a bigot to get your point across. I have a strong disagreement with him and maybe I was a little hot under the collar, but that kind shit is unnecessary.

[Anonymous]

I agree it was in bad taste.  To think otherwise not only shows a lack of perspective in life, but mental impairment.  Genocide is one thing.  Not agreeing with a treatment modality is another.  BTW Im not jewish, Im just compassionate.

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2004-01-21 08:50:00, Anonymous wrote:

"To think otherwise not only shows a lack of perspective in life, but mental impairment.   "

So by that statement, the Auscwitz survivor I spoke of has no perspective in life?!?!?!?!?!?!

A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another; shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson  

[ehm]

On 2004-01-21 04:10:00, Sheik Yerbouti wrote:

"i am all about ending the starights and sending those responsible to hell. HOWEVER ya'll need to exercise some better discretion than to protest a Holocaust shindig.. Pick ur battles, I am Jewish, i have relatives that were gassed and burned alive by the real Nazis some 60 years ago, i have relatives that had been tatooed etc..Therefore my opinion is u all need to tone it down...bad, bad taste..get it togther peoples...check out my letter to Michael Moore in the Elan forum
"

It directly relates... :grin:

No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles