One More Reason to Despise Ashcroft- Refuse to Investigate W

[Anonymous]

"I can list 10 so called "facts" that I have read on this board that are short parts of the truth taken and twisted around to make it HORRIBLE!"

I am interested to know what 10 things you found to be short parts of the truth.

[Anonymous]

Try to change their experience?? Isn't that what you are doing for my and supporters of the program? Trying to tell us that what we think is bullshit? and even if the program is working for us- because it didn't work for you then somehow we are not educated.. Or we haven't been exposed enough?
You didn't answer my question about what your problem with Cross Creek is. I am suppose to go back through all the posts and try to figure out who said what? Everyone is posting anonymous so that clearly makes it difficult for me to figure out exactly what your upset about within the program.
Can you take 5 minutes and tell me why CC is so horrible?
I'm not trying to change anyone's experience. I got on this board this morning and it just drove me crazy to read things like "they tell you your parents hate you".. If you are familiar with the program you know they don't do that.

[Anonymous]

For the person asking for the 10 things.. Did you not read my novel of a post??
Please go back and read it.  There are a number of things I point out that are good examples of how a little truth is twisted around to become a big lie.

[Anonymous]

Okay did you know that sometimes during therapy sessions the kids are told their parents don't want them?  Yes I understand this is hard to believe however As stated in my other post I witnessed the session as I sat in.  I remember sitting there (this is after 10 months and all three seminars in the program)not wanting to say anything in front of my daughter as I didn't want her to use it to manipulate me later however addressed it with the director directly after.  Not all therapists have an education to be working with people as a therapist.  I once did not believe this either however it was my experience.  

I did get her therapist changed after this and the next one was much better however that doesn't stop the fact that the first one was such and idiot in her rantings.  Later the FR admitted knowing the relationship between my daughter and the therapist was not a working one.  Why was that not addressed with the morning meetings with the Director?  Why let a kid sit the first 10 months in a non working relationship and do nothing until the parent steps up?  I was told from the beginning they never let a kid get comfortable and sit like this however it happens.  It was a waste of the tuition for that time as it only pushed her farther the other way.  It was not beneficial nor was it giving what they say it would.  In fact every girl within this particular group was having the same issues with the therapist.  That to me is a big red flag.  Things like this if addressed will make the program different than what it is.

Group sessions:  Well they have those every day.  It was my experience that in order to move to the upper levels some girls would manipulate a "story" about another girl.  This would advance them as "looking like" they were working their program and the other girl would recieve the consequences for her lies.  I witnessed this behavior during a group session I attended.

Different staff members gave different cats.  Most the time the kids know the rules better than the staffers.  CCM had a large overturn of staffers during the 2 years my daughter attended.  Also FR's are not made to attend the seminars and neither is the staff.  It is my feeling that they should be required to do so as you can not preach what you do not know.

Yes I do think my daughter gained tools from the program however I know it is not a perfect situation and if things were addressed vs. sweeping it under the carpet or calling it a disgruntled parent things could change.  Until then things will continue to happen over and over and the teen and parent will suffer.  

Change is good no matter if your a teen, a parent, or a WWASP employee/school.

[Deborah]

Anon program supporter,
Are you seriously worried that another person will be able to brainwash you into believing ?what you think is bullshit??
You don?t have the power to change other?s experiences, but you did jump on this forum this morning and accuse other posters of lying:

?I can list 10 so called "facts" that I have read on this board that are short parts of the truth taken and twisted around to make it HORRIBLE!
Number one: This is the biggest bullshit on the board. "kids are told thier parents hate them"  That is the farthest thing from the truth that there is???
 
You accuse others of lying then whine that they are trying to change your experience, when they rebut what you have stated as truth.

Many parents/family with experience speak out on this forum, and would be speaking on the BBS if they weren?t banned.  They are speaking their truth, and have a right to do so, even if it threatens your current beliefs.

Then you said: I got on this board this morning and it just drove me crazy to read things like "they tell you your parents hate you.***

If it drives you crazy reading that it might be possible, imagine how you might feel to later find out that it IS true. You can not say with absolute certainty that is doesn?t happen. The fact is, you are not there 24/7 and do not have a clue what is or isn?t said to your child.

And this is the best and most revealing thing you said: ?If you haven't been part of the program and you are posting based on crap you have read on the internet - keep your crap to yourself- I don't even want to hear it. But if you have ligitimate questions you would like answered- I will answer them.?

First, It?s pretty damned arrogant of you to come to a public forum and tell others to keep their ?crap? to themselves, because ?you don?t want to hear it?. Change your browser. No one is force feeding you information. Your child IS being force fed. No one is trying to ?change your experience?. Only you can do that.

Second, Four months in the program and you are an expert? How are you qualified to answer all questions about the program posed by the public? Will you refer to your parent manual for answers? Or zip over to the BBS and ask how you should respond? Or are you a staff member posing as a parent? Hard to know? as you too post anonymously.

I think this is more program   ::spam::

[Anonymous]

Deb Says:
If it drives you crazy reading that it might be possible, imagine how you might feel to later find out that it IS true. You can not say with absolute certainty that is doesn?t happen. The fact is, you are not there 24/7 and do not have a clue what is or isn?t said to your child.

Anon Friend, it is true. It happens a lot. They are told worse things than that you don't want them around and that you hate them. I've talked to a lot of the kids who've been in the program; and they commonly explain that they were told their parents didn't want anything to do with them; hated them; even signed documents allowing the staff to break their bones.

Its all part of disolving their identity to make them more readily brainwashed. Do a little reading on brain washing; mind controll, and behavior modivication.

You have no idea what your up against. You have a right to know. Educate yourself; they are not going to tell you the truth and if you stick with it; you will soon enough lose all ability to descern the truth even when it smacks you in the face.

Are they still advising you newbies to take a vacation and send a post card telling the kid how glad you are they aren't there? Why do you suppose they want you to do this? Hummm?
Its all part of the process.

[Anonymous]

Deborah, others, etc., please!  Why the attacks on a new parent?  You know, it gets better and better everytime I read this board.  A parent comes on this board because her ex actually thought it was fact that kids are abused!  You all are hurting more kids, not physically, but for the parents that need help and won't do it because of the agenda of a few and the fear you put in parents.  Must be a proud moment for ya'all that this dad actually got sucked into it.  Didn't go anywhere did it?  He should ask you for reimbursement for the time it took to check it out.

My relative has been home for well over 2 YEARS and he is the same kid, minus the attitude and the drugs, not perfect, and still says it was the best thing for him at the time if he's asked.  2 YEARS!

Imagine the brainwashing really worked, huh? LOL!!


WWASPS mom - if you don't agree with the activitist or the disgruntled on this board, get ready for your buttons to be pushed, or better yet, go read a good book.

[Anonymous]

By all means, read a book. Heres a good list to start with:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/li ... 74-3303030

[Anonymous]

All I can say about these programs is I've heard a hell of a lot of satisfied parents----and damned few satisfied young adults five years down the line.

The satisfied parents mostly come across as control freaks---and no control freak ever thinks he or she is a control freak---but the people around him or her do.

The only program kid I have close knowledge of was lied to to get her there, and has two adult sisters who won't even talk the mother (custodial parent) and stepdad anymore.

Estrangement predates shipping this daugher off---but looks to be building just fine towards ultimate permanent estrangement of that basically normal kid from her basically loopy mom.

The only reason her real dad didn't object was because the program would at least get the kid out from living immediately under the loopy mom---and he thought that just might be an improvement.

Mom's rich, dad's poor, no way dad can get custody.

And she is not allowed to send or receive mail.

It's not WWASPS, it's a different program.

Oh, and I don't give a good goddam if an individuals friends are "druggie"---federal law says you can't stop US mail from one person to another person, regardless of whether the recipient is a minor or not.  Once there's a stamp on that letter and it's mailed, anyone who obstructs that mail from getting to the addressee is in violation of federal law.

I don't give a good goddam what you think you "ought" to be able to do to your kid.  Federal law says you can't do that.  The law needs to be enforced.

[Anonymous]

Mail not getting to the recipient? So how did the friends get the address to send that mail?  If they don't have an address, they don't get the mail...duh! Doubt the parents gave the friends an address and directions to their kid!  Think about it.

Satisfied parents, satisfied teens. I don't get the "satisfaction thing anyway.  I do get that the kids NEVER wanted to be there, not even when things were going good inside the program.  They wanted to be home, which is change, cuz most of them didn't want to be at home when they were "home."  Go figure!

I don't experience the satisfied parents as being controllers, I experience the negative posters on this board as controllers.  Obviously if a dad believed the crap enough to really
think his kid was being abused, then you've done a good job in your own form of brainwashing and mind control.   :rofl:

[Deborah]

We don't know
1) that the poster is indeed a new parent.
2) that she actually has an ex and he did what she alleges.
3) that you have a realtive and he is fine.

What we do know
Everytime a program parents feet are held to the fire- is engaged in debate, there is an organized front signing on to scream "attack".

There are no rules of engagement here- don't imagine that you can come on board and impose yours. No one is required to be nice- whatever that means to you. I thought it rude of her to call others liars. And inappropriate to present herself as an authority with 4 months experience in the organization.
This is a survivor site. It is not mandatory reading for anyone. I thought your advice to her was excellent.

[Anonymous]

Okay did you know that sometimes during therapy sessions the kids are told their parents don't want them? Yes I understand this is hard to believe however As stated in my other post I witnessed the session as I sat in. I remember sitting there (this is after 10 months and all three seminars in the program)not wanting to say anything in front of my daughter as I didn't want her to use it to manipulate me later however addressed it with the director directly after. Not all therapists have an education to be working with people as a therapist. I once did not believe this either however it was my experience.

Okay- finally a civilized conversation. So, you had a problem with your therapist and that is the reason you are upset with the program (or the biggest reason, anyway) But my question to you - without being in your shoes- you got to talk to the therapist approx. 20 times during that first 10 months, right? And you had therapy sessions with your daughter/son on at least half of those - didn't you see it? Our therapist is Norm T. and I believe he communicates with my daughter better than I've been able to in two years- and so far everything that he says has really been right on. She has said how much respect she has for him and I feel like (when I talk to him) that he only has her best interest in mind. He gets excited about rewarding her when she has a good week- and he calls her on her crap when she is having a bad day. If I didn't feel comfortable with him- or if I felt my daughter wasn't "getting" anything from her sessions with him- I would explore changing therapists. Its not unheard of.  Sometimes therapists recommend a change because they feel it just isn't working- kids change groups, therapists, whatever.
I am not saying I'm an expert in any way- all I'm saying is people who come on forums like this and give opinions on what they have "read on the internet" or even parents with kids in a different school like Dundee or TB- you can't compare those schools to CC and you cant take one situation that happened in another country and hold it against CC.
All I know is we were fighting a loosing battle with my daughter. My husband and I want only the best for her, as Im sure you want the best for your child which is why you sent him/her to CC. Nothing we were doing would make her see that she was ruining her life- digging herself into a whole that soon she wouldn't be able to pull herself out of. Getting addicted to Alcohol and giving her body away to anyone and everyone- even a 22 y/o stranger when she was camping with my ex. You feel helpless and you just can't stop her from all of this- and we tried counseling- she didn't work in the sessions, just looked at the floor and when she has to answer she would just grunt.
Thank you for giving me your feed back about the program- I do appreciate it. But what you are saying is a far cry from abuse like some of the other people alleg.(sp?)
My daughter is happy and we have a relationship again- she writes me every other day, as I do her.  She can't wait to get back to the family, nor can we. We only want happiness for her. Its very difficult to have her away- you know that. But it was very difficult to have her here when she was distroying her life and all we could do is sit back and watch.

So- again I thank you. I hope your child is living a good and productive life and that she took some good things from the program that she can use in her life.

So far, it's working for us and the second I feel like its not- I'll be there to bring her home.

Michelle

[Anonymous]

Deborah from Texas
I am a new parent.. I am not presenting myself as an authority- or at least I didn't mean to.
I am very familiar with the program- I live it, breath it and it consumes my entire life. Four months maybe doesn't seem like a long time- but when your kids is away from you it is a life time.  There is not a question I haven't asked and when I do have a question I hadn't thought of asking I ask my daughter-
You don't have to believe that I have an ex who sent the sherrifs department to the school. If you think that is too hard for you to imagine that a child had an opportunity to leave and didn't take it- you can believe what you want.
By the way, my daughter chose to at Cross Creek. We went there together- we toured the place= talked to some residents and some staff members- and when we had an opportunity to talk to six of the resident kids we were left alone with them for at least 30 minutes and they could have said anything they wanted to say to us.  After talking with those girls and seeing the changes that they making in their attitudes and in their lives, my daughter decided that she wanted to change too.  I could not have left here there kicking and screaming like some parents have to do. I tried to talk her into coming home and giving it one last chance and she said she wanted to stay- that she knows she will go back to the same stuff if she came home.
She thanks me for cross creek all the time in her letters. She has made friends that she loves.
I miss her terribly, but she will be home some day in the hopefully not too far away future and we will all be thankful for the experience.
Michelle

[Anonymous]

On 2004-01-18 07:12:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Deborah from Texas

I am a new parent.. I am not presenting myself as an authority- or at least I didn't mean to.

I am very familiar with the program- I live it, breath it and it consumes my entire life. Four months maybe doesn't seem like a long time- but when your kids is away from you it is a life time.  There is not a question I haven't asked and when I do have a question I hadn't thought of asking I ask my daughter-

You don't have to believe that I have an ex who sent the sherrifs department to the school. If you think that is too hard for you to imagine that a child had an opportunity to leave and didn't take it- you can believe what you want.

By the way, my daughter chose to at Cross Creek. We went there together- we toured the place= talked to some residents and some staff members- and when we had an opportunity to talk to six of the resident kids we were left alone with them for at least 30 minutes and they could have said anything they wanted to say to us.  After talking with those girls and seeing the changes that they making in their attitudes and in their lives, my daughter decided that she wanted to change too.  I could not have left here there kicking and screaming like some parents have to do. I tried to talk her into coming home and giving it one last chance and she said she wanted to stay- that she knows she will go back to the same stuff if she came home.

She thanks me for cross creek all the time in her letters. She has made friends that she loves.

I miss her terribly, but she will be home some day in the hopefully not too far away future and we will all be thankful for the experience.

Michelle

"

Stockholm Syndrome only takes 3 days to set in.

And any group that "consumes your whole life" scores a sinificant hit, iirc, on the Bonewitz' Cult Danger Evaluation Frame, just on that.  The money is also a significant hit, as is WWASP parents' "circle the wagons" reaction to outsiders, and hostile reactions to group-leavers, and predictions of statistically improbable disaster (death of a child) for group-leavers.

Not interested in drinking the koolaid, thanks.

[Anonymous]

I'm still friends with two parents who "left" the program.  Not once have I questioned their decisions to "choose out."  It's a personal choice and I'd be lying if I said I thought something was wrong with them or they were bad, etc., for this choice.  In both cases, we don't discuss wwasp.  We became friends during seminar and maintain that friendship on that level.  In one family the girl is doing great.  In the other, son is struggling and they are searching for "free" alternatives.  It really is about what the "take away" was and how they choose to use it.  Even graduates struggle, we all struggle with certain situations whether or not we've been IN a program.  That's called life.

I understand what the ANON parent was saying when she said it consumes her life.  It's not cultie to want to live and breath the new things we've learned.  It takes practice to change a habit.  She sounds committed to living this, not because she is told to, but because she wants to...on her own terms.  She sounds committed to supporting her daughter and herself to live a different way that what she was prior to the admission.  That's what I'm reading, but I tend to read positive, not negative.