God, but do I HATE bullies!!!!!

[Antigen]

Just got this from my hosting provider in the wee hours of the morning.

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:49:59 -0800 (PST)
To: XXXX@baremetal.com
Subject: [BM-175635] couriers... and other BS

I was pretty sure something was amiss when vince told me there were 4 couriered letters for me today... they all seem to be bitching about the
bulletin boards on fornits.com ... the one from spring creek lodge is on formal letterhead and apparently signed by the director... the other three vary between requesting the removal of some postings, to demanding that we discontinue hosting you... of course the timing is suspicous (4 in one day), two came on the same fedex billing ID and look fairly similar although the wording is completely different...

I'm not sure how closely you monitor the bulletin boards. I suspect you have a fairly good handle on it. What little I looked at seemed good, the
starting posts quoted a source etc...


--------------------------------------------------

http://BareMetal.com/  | There can be no courage unless you're scared.
                       | - Eddie Rickenbacker 

I should have copies in a few days. And I'll let ya'll know of any developments.

Interesting though, isn't it? Nobody actually made this kind of move in response to Nazi or Carey or the Carey Sucks club. Just WWASP. And they went over my head without contacting me at all. And this just, what, two days after Carey's boss gets an harrassing call?

Curiouser and curioser :question:  :question:

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard was not what I meant.



---Richard Nixon

[Anonymous]

Ivy Ridge contacted you previously didn't they?

[Anonymous]

Carey phone call and your potential law suit seem unrelated, the only relation is time, if WWASPS wanted to go after Carey the would sue her, not make anonomouys phone calls. Plus it does not seem to me that WWASPS is after Carey, she did provid some important information regarding PUREST/TREKKERS. PUREST allready have demonstrated their ability to stoop to any level with multiple identies or schyzphrenia postings.
 :question:  :question:  :question:  :question:

[Antigen]

On 2003-12-31 09:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Ivy Ridge contacted you previously didn't they?"

Yes, they did. But I don't think I've heard from any of the four authors of these letters to BareMetal

who needs regular piss tests more than a former blowski who has his finger on the button?
--Chuck Beyer

[Antigen]

On 2003-12-31 10:00:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Carey phone call and your potential law suit seem unrelated, the only relation is time, if WWASPS wanted to go after Carey the would sue her, not make anonomouys phone calls. Plus it does not seem to me that WWASPS is after Carey, she did provid some important information regarding PUREST/TREKKERS. PUREST allready have demonstrated their ability to stoop to any level with multiple identies or schyzphrenia postings.

 :question:  :question:  :question:  :question: "

Oh, I don't think the call and the letters came from the same people. I just think ppl on both sides of the issue are starting to panic over all this info coming out.

Here's the thing. When Ivy Ridge contacted me, I invited them to come and refute whatever comments they found to be unkind or untrue or to take it up with the various authors. I don't think they had a legitimate cause of action or refutation because they didn't do either of those things. Never even acknowledged receipt of my reply to them, except by the signature on the return receipt.

Now they're trying a different tack, probably hoping that I'm not worth the time and trouble to my provider. But my provider lives or dies on the ebb and flow of free speech. I'm sure they wouldn't expose their business and customers to any unreasonable risk out of affection for me. And I wouldn't ask it. But they have their own interests. That's why I love them so much and recomend them to anyone looking for the types of services they provide.

Folks, in the unlikely event that we lose the forum, either temporarily or permanently, please take pains to swap contact info so that you can continue the conversation elsewhere. The current exchange rate for the Finland Markkaa is 6.8687 per United States Dollar. Their criminal justice system is the worlds most eloquent joke and the place is just lousey with deeply pensive and studious Linux programers. :wink:
 

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
-- John F. Kennedy (1917-63), U.S. Democratic politician, president. Speech, 13 March 1962, the White House.

[Antigen]

One more thing.

"The net views censorship as damage and routes around it."--John Gilmour
 

Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"  Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown, _Peanuts_ [Charles Schulz]

[Carey]

Ginger, go back and read the thread started by Sue KXXX dated 12/10/03.

"Carey Bock Has Her Judas Gold"

"Let's see, if her computer was out of commission in the WWASPS offices, how did Ms. Bock write zillions of posts to the Fornits site?  From work?  Would the Resource Bank like to know that?"

I think it is the same group of people who posted my ss number.

[Antigen]

I just got a call from David Pollack. He says a suite has been filed (in addition to WvP??) and an emergency injunction has been requested (but not seen by the judge yet) and that he will be overnighting me some related documents.

Being a lawyer, he didn't say much. But I was able to get out of him a vague description of what they want. They apparently want the name Sue Scheff and any related info dedacted from all public, and possibly private, communications.

We'll see.

I don't go lookin' for trouble. I just keep a little in a box should someone come by who is.
--Bill Warbis

[Antigen]

On 2003-12-31 11:09:00, Carey wrote:

I think it is the same group of people who posted my ss number.  

Depends on how you're using the term "group" here. No, it wasn't Sue KXXX.

Where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy.
Anonymity Anonymous
It is wrong to leave a stumbling block in the road once it has tripped you.

[Carey]

Group would include all of those affiliated with Trekkers.  It is one of them.

By the way, I just recieved a fax from Pollack,LLC.

[ehm]

It doesn't stop here though.

Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If today he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,--"I see no probability of the British invading us"; but he will say to you, "Be silent: I see it, if you don't."
--Abraham Lincoln

[Deborah]

Ginger wrote: I'm sure they wouldn't expose their business and customers to any unreasonable risk out of affection for me.***

I don't understand this comment, would you elaborate on how they might expose their business and customers to unreasonable risk by continuing to host you?

What good is the disclaimer stating that you are not responsible for what others post, if indeed they can force you to delete messages or shut you down. Why aren't they going after the people who posted the "offensive" material. How could such an action not violate free speech?

This forum is valuable to parents who want to hear the good, bad and ugly about programs. How could they force the removal of the entire forum because they don't like what was said about themselves or their program?

Or, are you saying the forum would go down if, and only if, you couldn't fund a legal defense, if it were to come to that?

[Antigen]

On 2003-12-31 14:39:00, Deborah wrote:



Or, are you saying the forum would go down if, and only if, you couldn't fund a legal defense, if it were to come to that?"

That's exactly what I'm saying. It's already come to that, according to Mr. Pollack. A suit has already been filed and an emergency injunction requested. I don't have the details yet. I should be getting the docs within a few days.

I agree that this forum is a valuable resource for anyone interested in the troubled parent industry. It's like this. If I can pull together adequate funding and talent to defend against this suit, I will. If I can't, I won't. I will not martyr myself and my kids. Sorry.

But I'm not the only geek on the planet who can operate a web forum. It's taken around 6 years for anyone to build up a big enough steamhead to actually file suit. Ya'll should seriously look into becoming well informed information services consumers. Pick a geek who is less vulnerable, either by virtue or their geography or business arangements, and see if they'd like to replace this forum just for shits and giggles. Or learn about how to use Usenet newsgroups. Some years ago, Wes tried to set up a newsgroup on this very topic, but there wasn't sufficient interest or understanding of the issue at the time. Now there is. Hell, there might already be an animated discussion going on over there right now and none of us have stumbled accross each other yet.

Bottom line, wrong as it is, given enough incentive and $$$$$, anyone can use the courts to torture anyone they don't like. That is what people generally mean when they talk about our beautiful nation's slow slide from the standard of liberty and justice for all to the pathetic snitch culure  we see today, with liberty going to the highest bidder and justice a cruel joke.

Hear me people: We now have to deal with another race - small and feeble when our fathers first met them, but now great and overbearing. Strangely enough they have a mind to till the soil and the love of possessions is a disease with them. These people have made many rules which the rich may break but the poor may not. They take their tithes from the poor and weak to support the rich and those who rule.
http://www.powersource.com/gallery/people/sittbull.html' target='_new'>Chief Sitting Bull, speaking at the Powder River Conference, 1877

[Deborah]

So, why can't the "offensive" material be deleted or edited? Why must the entire forum go down? There is mucho information here that is not relevant or offensive to P or W.
We've Been There kept some of their forums, including one on WWASP.

[Antigen]

Well, I don't know. That may be an option. I'll have to read the complaint.

But then there's this other issue of ppl sending threatening letters to my service provider, demanding anything from deleting a few posts to their giving me the bum's rush.

My aim in all of this is to just take advantage of the natural ordered chaos that is the net. This could backfire in a very big way. They can break their arms patting themselves on the back over shutting down or censoring this forum. Meanwhile, dozens of others might spring up like dandilions in springtime.

Even if I have to take something off of the public server, I've still got it. If anyone wants me to forward their contact info to some individual, I'm pretty sure I could do that. If I get crushed w/ such requests, I'll probably just write a script to automate the process for you.

That's what we do here at Fornits Workshop. We come up with simple and effective technical solutions to internet communications problems.
 :wave:

Janis, Jimi, Jerry, Timothy... Do you HAVE to get this close to the edge to get a really good view?
-- Anonymous