Apologia - Serious debate only, please!

[Deborah]

***More definitive discussion/debate on this component of these programs would be highly productive. Another area of interest is the use of inhouse referrals to boost enrollment.***

More discussion on Seminars on these threads:

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 9&start=10

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=20

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=10

On Ontological Coaching:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=30

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 9&start=10

And on Referring:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2769&forum=9

[Anonymous]

Bottom line is the wwasps affilated parents are sharing an option, no more, no less. And, getting a much needed break on tution costs. Win/Win.

I need to add: If the referral results in an admission, they get the break tuition cost...

[Anonymous]

On 2004-01-08 09:33:00, spots wrote:

"This topic, started by Ginger as an effort to really discuss something, is very active.  It would appear to have, maybe, 6 or 8 regular posters, with an interesting mix of "regular-but-not-on-this-topic" people...meaning several other forum folks read here regularly.  Hmmm...we have a larger audience than we think.



I am impressed with the caliber of opinions, grammar, etc., but if you look closely, you will probably find that we are faced with just 2 WWASPS supporters.  One woman has a nephew who emerged from Cross Creek a while ago a significantly-changed individual.  OK.  She also seems to be the same person who refers to the 100's of satisfied customers (or 1000's, depending on how ludicrous she feels) she personally knows.  Nevermind that she never refers to these 100's [or 1000's] of folks by name, personal knowledge, anecdotal experiences, etc., except to point to The Source magazine for her, uhmmm, source.  One wonders why such a distant relative spends hours reading this forum and adamantly attacking every post with rebuttal, especially since her rebuttals center mostly on "they don't do what you [and literally 100's of other kids] say".  



Our second Anon who seems hell-bent of rebutting each post is identifiable by her syntax, which mostly is LARGE-SIZE FONT, a horrible breach of Internet etiquette that she has recently discovered how to do.  Is this the same Anon who bitterly demands, "Please do not avoid the question" or "Please answer the question".  Saying please isn't going to gloss over the nasty demands from some etheral harpy out there, and does she really expect we intelligent and informed posters to "fess up" and bow to her demands to answer her hostile questions?  Like...does she really have and "questions" that are not attacks.  Lady, didn't you take seriously your Debate class when you were in Harvard?  Your style is right up there on the list of ineffective arguing.  Oh, well, maybe you have to have at least 3 check-offs from the List of Stupid Debating Techniques to really fit into the category of Stupid Debater.  



FWIW, I just fell into the category of Stupid Debater by responding to these Anons.  Oh well, too much coffee this morning.  I must go out to the barn to scoop poop, as that has some real purpose as opposed to shoveling around crap on this board."

The problem some people seem to have is an ability to get as good as they give.  Hence the surge in personal attacks and/or sarcasm hurled back and forth until somebody cries uncle (or diverts attention away from the topic of discussion). BTW: Does anybody even know what the topic is or rather, was?  

 :silly:

[Anonymous]

The problem some people seem to have is an INability to get as good as they give. Hence the surge in personal attacks and/or sarcasm hurled back and forth until somebody cries uncle (or diverts attention away from the topic of discussion). BTW: Does anybody even know what the topic is or rather, was?

-----------------------------------------------

Sorry about the typo!

[Anonymous]

On 2004-01-08 13:30:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Bottom line is the wwasps affilated parents are sharing an option, no more, no less. And, getting a much needed break on tution costs. Win/Win.



I need to add: If the referral results in an admission, they get the break tuition cost...



"

I don't know, this whole concept makes me squeemish.  Some of these parents have websites that are actively recruiting "options" as you call them.  This seems more than just a way to get a much-needed break on the tuition costs of a single child.  I mean, 10 referrals in one month would pretty much pay for the child's entire program and then some, would it not?

[Anonymous]

Deborah.  I know you want answers to all you linked to on a personal level, but you won't find it in links, or words.  The seminars really are something you would need to experience for yourself. If you're not interested in going, but want answers on this forum, doubt it will be.

Seminars: It's a view shared by a few.  No one person gets the same thing out of the same seminar.  It's different for each participant.

The coaches are hired by the parents during the transition phase, coming home phase.  It's not mandatory, but a choice. How wonderful to have that support available.  Don't other programs just say "bye" and don't offer much in the way of support once the child has graduated?  That would be another thing to look at.

[Anonymous]

[/quote]



I don't know, this whole concept makes me squeemish.  Some of these parents have websites that are actively recruiting "options" as you call them.  This seems more than just a way to get a much-needed break on the tuition costs of a single child.  I mean, 10 referrals in one month would pretty much pay for the child's entire program and then some, would it not?"
[/quote]

Referral means referral to an admissions representative.  It does not mean it would result in an admission.  So if a parent is contacted by 10 individuals and they chose to admit, which is highly unlikely, then they would receive 10 months of tuition for their child.  

Many parents "refer" but very few result in an actual admission.  Most are just looking at options.  If you look at the websites, most are not parents anyway.

[Anonymous]

True, some of these websites appear to be connected with independent referral agents, though it is odd they only seem to promote a certain brand of programs and schools.  Others, it is hard to tell who owns and operates them.  I am serious! They are anonymous. No names, bios, just the proverbial test on how to tell if your child is close to going over the edge and needs a program asap.  Shouldn't there be a law or something that makes these people disclose who they are?  At a minimum, I think parents have a right to know who they are dealing with, don't you?
 ::

[Anonymous]

Call the numbers and see who answers.  That is who you are dealing with.

[Deborah]

***Deborah. I know you want answers to all you linked to on a personal level, but you won't find it in links, or words.***

Not actually. I've read the information and even once found myself in a workshop based on the same philosophy. I discovered this a couple of days into the 8-day event.
I offered the links for those who would like to read previous discussions on the topics, rather than duplicate them in this thread. Worth the read. People should know what they're signing up for.

I have to wonder how much recruiting would be going on if parents weren't compensated.

I wonder too what the record is for number of referrals.

I wonder too if W created this method of referal because the majority of Ed Cons would not refer to their facilities.

Seems to be an excellent marketing plan- well designed ponzi scheme. I don't see parents of other programs hitting the streets with pamphlets, contacting every authority figure and official in their county with information on their chosen program, and for that matter, relatively few of them even post on message boards. They might if there was a financial incentive.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-01-08 14:38:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Call the numbers and see who answers.  That is who you are dealing with.  "

NO!  If these people can't say who they are upfront, then that is a big red flag.  All anybody has in this business is their GOOD NAME, or not, as the case may be.  I say disclose who you are BEFORE you ask parents to call. Why should parents have to call somebody to find out who they are dealing with?  That's just plain dumb.

 :silly:

[Anonymous]

http://www.resourcerealizations.com/ind ... tions.com/

This will show what they are signing up for.  If your seminar was 8 days, then how could it be based on what these are? I'm sure you've seen the site above, but 8 days seems excessive unless they were trying to cram it all in one seminar.

[Deborah]

I've read the information and even once found myself in a WORKSHOP based on the SAME PHILOSOPHY.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-01-08 15:02:00, Deborah wrote:

"I've read the information and even once found myself in a WORKSHOP based on the SAME PHILOSOPHY.

"

You mean Personal Growth?

[Anonymous]

On 2004-01-08 14:41:00, Deborah wrote:

"***Deborah. I know you want answers to all you linked to on a personal level, but you won't find it in links, or words.***



Not actually. I've read the information and even once found myself in a workshop based on the same philosophy. I discovered this a couple of days into the 8-day event.

I offered the links for those who would like to read previous discussions on the topics, rather than duplicate them in this thread. Worth the read. People should know what they're signing up for.



I have to wonder how much recruiting would be going on if parents weren't compensated.



I wonder too what the record is for number of referrals.



I wonder too if W created this method of referal because the majority of Ed Cons would not refer to their facilities.



Seems to be an excellent marketing plan- well designed ponzi scheme. I don't see parents of other programs hitting the streets with pamphlets, contacting every authority figure and official in their county with information on their chosen program, and for that matter, relatively few of them even post on message boards. They might if there was a financial incentive. "

Your going to love this!!! What if it was more than money, but somthing they believe in because they know it works, they have seen their whole family change and their lives because of these awesome programs, people who have experinced life changing positive events are very passionate about their new success and want to share with others, like Mormon Missionaries,WWASPS parents who are not paid, but go 2 years and acutally pay their own way. It is amazing once some one thinks of helping others, how powerfull these people can be.

Believe it or not their is some people who have made positive changes in their lives and want to share their experince with others

But some people will never change.